Question on 27:40 - Solomon and al Kitab

[aamantubillah]

Salam,

27:40 (Asad) Answered he who was illumined by revelation: [32] “[Nay,] as for me - I shall bring it to thee ere the twinkling of thy eye ceases!” [33] And when he saw it truly before him, he exclaimed: [34] “This is [an outcome] of my Sustainer’s bounty, to test me as to whether I am grateful or ungrateful! [35] However, he who is grateful [to God] is but grateful for his own good; and he who is ungrate ful [should know that], verily, my Sustainer is self-sufficient, most generous in giving!” -

Asad says that the person who is illuminated by revelation is Solomon himself per the opinion of Razi. I had thought that this was another person? So the Jinn proposed that he could do it quick, but Solomon himself said that he can do it even quicker. Others say that this was a Jewish scholar of the time who had knowledge of the Torah and invoked a certain of God's attributes. It seems to be the majority opinion, as far as I have read, that this is another person who had brought the throne.

The following explanation from Tafheemul Quran says,

"*47 Nothing is known with certainty as to who this person was, what special knowledge he had and what Book is referred to here, whose knowledge he had. No explanation of these things has been given either in the Qur'an or in any authentic Hadith. Some of the commentators say that it was an angel; others say that it was a tnan. Then they differ as to the identity of the man. Someone mentions the name of Asaf bin Barchiah, who, according to the rabbinical traditions, was the Prince of Men. Someone says that he was Khidr; someone mentions some other name; and Imam Razi insists that it was the Prophet Solomon himself. But none of these has any reliable source for his information, and Imam Razi's opinion does not even fit in with the Qur'anic context. Likewise, about the Book also the commentators differ. Someone says that it refers to Lauh-i-Mahfuz (the Preserved Tablet) and some other takes it for the Book of Law. But all this is mere guess-work. Similar guesses have been made about the knowledge the man had from the Book. We only know and believe what has been said in the Qur'an, or what becomes evident from its words In any case the person was not from among the jinns, and possibly he was a man. He possessed some extraordinary knowledge, which had been derived from some Divine Book (al-Kitab) . The jinn had claimed to fetch the throne within a few hours by means of his physical strength; this man fetched it in a moment by the power of his knowledge."

None of these makes any sense...the only know who was bestowed knowledge of al Kitab was Solomon himself. How could some random person bring a thrown from 3000 miles away? Asad plays off this as an allegory of some sort, but thats just avoiding the ayah all together. It cannot be a Jinn because the jinns can only do it by a certain time period. It COULD have been an angel but then again, it could not.

Furthermore, linguistically speaking, in terms of the Arabic grammar and usage of language, could it be that this was Solomon himself? If so, what is the proof for this and against this?

ibn Kathir says,

"(I will bring it to you within the twinkling of an eye!) Meaning, lift your gaze and look as far as you can, and before you get tired and blink, you will find it before you. Then he got up, performed ablution and prayed to Allah, may He be exalted. Mujahid said: "He said, O Owner of majesty and honor.'' When Sulayman and his chiefs saw it before them,'

Solomon being a Prophet would surely have knowledge of al Kitab better than a companion or anyone else. So why did Solomon himself not do this himself? He had been given the ability by Allah...

[ihsan]

To quote Tariq Mahmood Hashmi from Al-Mawrid:

I am afraid I will not be able to present the explanations offered by all the authorities on this matter. I will restrict myself to the most plausible and well-argued stance in this regard. First of all, I quote the relevant verse:

He [Solomon] said: O courtiers! Which of you will bring me her throne before they present themselves humbly before me? An ‘Ifrit [stalwart] from the Jinn said: I will bring it before you before you rise from your place. Lo! I am indeed strong and trustworthy for such work. The man [among the courtiers] who possessed the knowledge of the Scripture said: I will bring it to you within the twinkling of an eye. And [there it was]. When he [Solomon] saw it set before him, he said: This is boundless bounty of my Lord, that [has been showered upon me] so that He may try me whether I offer thanks or prove ungrateful. Whosoever shows thankfulness only does so for his own benefit: and whosoever is ungrateful [harms his own interest]. For My Lord is Independent, Bountiful. (27:38-40)

From these verses we can see that the Holy Qur’an did not mention the specific method employed by the person for transferring the throne of the queen. Therefore we can only make a conjecture in this regard, something which is never going to be substantiated. The Qur’an, however, has alluded to the fact that the knowledge which was used by the man was the divine guidance contained in the Scripture. It seems that some people had learnt this kind of knowledge, which could be used to make miraculous performances.

At another place in the Holy Qur’an, it is told that two angels were sent to the earth who would teach this kind of supernatural knowledge (Qur’an: 2:102). This knowledge was to be used very cautiously. The angels would clearly indicate that it was a sort of test for the people who learnt it and that it could be used both for positive as well as negative ends. This indicates that there existed in the ancient times knowledge of such powers though the specific mode of operation of this knowledge cannot be elaborated in absence of any divine guidance.

http://al-mawrid.org/pages/questions...id=207&cid=444

[aamantubillah]

Solomon would use a person doing magic to perform a miracle? With all due respect to that author, that's the most implausible explantion I've read yet.

[ihsan]

...

[ihsan]

Wa salaam,

Solomon would use a person doing magic to perform a miracle? With all due respect to that author, that's the most implausible explantion I've read yet.

Where did you get magic from? The article states the following:

The Qur’an, however, has alluded to the fact that the knowledge which was used by the man was the divine guidance contained in the Scripture. It seems that some people had learnt this kind of knowledge, which could be used to make miraculous performances.

At another place in the Holy Qur’an, it is told that two angels were sent to the earth who would teach this kind of supernatural knowledge (Qur’an: 2:102). This knowledge was to be used very cautiously. The angels would clearly indicate that it was a sort of test for the people who learnt it and that it could be used both for positive as well as negative ends. This indicates that there existed in the ancient times knowledge of such powers though the specific mode of operation of this knowledge cannot be elaborated in absence of any divine guidance.

The author was arguing that the knowledge was most likely obtained from the angels Harut and Marut, which means it was a divinely-revealed knowledge. In respect to 2:102, Islahi writes, as quoted by Shehzad Salaam:

Imam Amin Ahsan Islahi expresses his view on this issue in the following words:

In my opinion, this discipline refers to the spiritual effects and impact of words and things which was in vogue among the sufis and yogis of the Jews and which they used as charms and spells to achieve various ends. For example, they used it to cure various diseases and as a remedy for the bad effects of the evil eye and witchcraft. Similarly, they used it to combat the various tricks of magicians and conjurers and to create love or hatred between people.

This discipline was entirely different from the discipline of magic and palmistry etc because it neither had any trace of polytheism in it nor were devils and the jinn-folk a part of it. However, as regards its effects, it was as potent as magic and witchcraft. It is possible that the Israelites were given this discipline in their time of slavery in Babylon to counter the magic and sorcery that was rampant in it and to protect the simpletons and the commoners among them from the influence of these magician and wizards. The reason for forming this opinion is that firstly it is evident from the Torah that witchcraft and sorcery were rampant in those times. Secondly, this seems precisely in line with the divine practice of sending help in the form of a legitimate and rightful discipline to combat an evil discipline that was being used in such a potent manner by some miscreants.

He goes on to write:

In my opinion, it is the remnants of this very discipline which one section of our mediums and mystics have adopted and they have even given certain benefits to people through it and some incidents also bear witness that in some circumstances they were instrumental in proving the supremacy of Islam and Muslims against the yogis and astrologers. However, just as after moral decadence set in the Jews, this discipline became a part of sorcery and a means to earn money, similarly among the Muslims too it became a means to blackmail the common man and many evil elements crept into it because of which people got influenced by it in the very way the Qur’an has referred to here.

Moiz AMjad writes on this particular verse:

By mentioning the practices taught by the two angels separately, the Qur'an has evidenced the fact that even though it was similar to 'magic' (mentioned earlier) in its affects, yet it did not entail any polytheistic rituals like magic. There is extensive evidence which indicates that the practice of magic, sorcery, divination and such other occult practices was quite common among the Babylonians. Amin Ahsen Islahi, in his commentary of the Qur'an "Tadabbur-e-Qur'an" (Urdu) has opined that it was probably to provide a shield against these occult practices of the Babylonians that God sent the two angels to teach the Israelites some spells. The Qur'an has also stated that while teaching these spells, the angels admonished the Israelites of the fact that this information (of occult spells) was a great trial for them and that learning these spells entailed a great potential of deviating from the straight path. From this admonition of the angels, it seems that these teachings of the angels was like a double-edged sword: it could be used for the right purposes and also had the potential of being used for the wrong ones. In the following part of the verse, the Qur'an has mentioned that even after these admonitions of the angels, the Israelites used these occult practices for all the wrong causes - like sowing discord among a husband and a wife etc. The point that the teaching of the angels was primarily to provide the Israelites with a shield against the expert Babylonian sorcerers is supported by the fact that the Israelites were, indeed, aware of certain, apparently magical spells, which were clear of any profane beliefs and rituals, and are reported to have utlized them for various purposes. The Encyclopedia Judaica writes:

While repudiating the power of sorcery, biblical religion at times utilizes means and methods, which were borrowed from magical practice, but were subordinated to the new faith and hence not regarded as acts of sorcery. Notable examples are healing with the aid of the copper serpent (Nehushtan) and the examination of the woman suspected of infidelity (Adultery; Ordeal). (Article on 'Magic')

As far as magic, God Almighty absolves Sulaiman (AS) of such accusations of magic.

[ihsan]

But I see that I did not answer your specific question. It is my understanding that al-Kitab does not have to refer to a specific revelatory Book, such as the Torah, but it can refer to any Divine Knowledge that is revealed. The Quran is considered part of al-Kitab in certain instances in the Quran, along with the other revelations. This 'al-kitab seems to be different aspects of the knowledge of God Almighty.

In regards to a special aspect of knowledge which somebody other than a Prophet knows about, Allah says about Khidr, whom Moses (AS) sought out to learn from:

So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence.

[aamantubillah]

Hmm, this is new to me. There is something someone does that is not magic nor a miracle...I'll have to chew on this for a while. I understand that kitab does not refer to the Quran only and it does to different aspects of knowledge, but can you comment on the pronoun "he" in "answered he who was illumined by revelation". The Quran Corpus says, it is alladhī which has been rendered as "one who". Does the llanguage of the text suggests if it was Solomon himself who was the person who was aware of this knowledge?(But, searching for all the usages of alladhi is nearly impossible because it seems to appear1462 times). It seems to me to be the most probable, rather than some other person. Ihsan, I'd appreciate if you could read my reasoning and tell me if it has any holes in it anywhere:

Understanding 1:
Solomon pretty much said, "Who can do this". One of the jinn said, "Me, I'll do it pretty fast". Then Solomon himself replied, "but i can do it even faster" and when it happened, he said, "This is a test to see if I'm grateful or not".

Now, regarding that understanding. There are several questions. Does it break up anywhere? Meaning, does the "this is a bounty from God" logically follow Solomon himself bringing this miracle or would it make more sense if it was someone else? Furthermore, does the text of the Quran when it uses the word "one who" or "alladhī" support or nullify this understanding

Understanding 2:
It was another man and your post helps explain this.

Now, this brings some questions in my mind. What is the benefit of having someone else perform this...well, "miracle" and it goes on, can a non-Prophet/Messenger perform a miracle; does the Qur'an give examples? I think the case of Maryam is exempt because she did not make the birth happen, it was Allah doing it without her input.

Furthermore, why did Solomon not do it himself? Why ask a Jinn in the first place or even ask someone else? How would the even speedier delivery affect anything? Also, al khidr did not perform any miracles and what he did in the Quran is actually quite human...so can we definitively say that al khidr even possessed such abilities? Even in the ahadith I don't believe he has any such abilities.

Understanding 3:
It could have been, per Ma'ariful Quran, tassaruf. This falls flat on its face because in the same ayah it said, "This is [an outcome] of my Sustainer’s bounty". A "mesmerism or hypnotism" is not accomplishing the task, and it like that of an illusion, hence the throne is not really being brought to Solomon, so it did not happen, and it follows that it is not then a bounty if it did not happen. It must have been physically brought and not a "mesmerism or hypnotism".


Thanks for your help

[khalid zaheer]

Assalaam o alaikum

I think such kind of discussions are useless, these are "Mutashabayhaat", and discussion over such kind of verses can turn you on the wrong way, when Allah did not disclose it then why you want to, avoid it please because Allah said to avoid discussion over such kind of verses.

regards

[aamantubillah]

Wa 'aleykum as salam Khalid,

I dont think they are useless. Useless is trying to find out Solomon's favorite color or something of the sort. However, I do agree to a certain degree that this does not really get someone anywhere. With that said, I still find it important to see if my understanding is flawed regarding my interpretation of the ayah. Thanks for your warning. It is appreciated

[faithful]

Sorry if I jump in the conversation but I want to hignlight the position of aamantubillah here... I think he made a point here. It's important to know the meaning of every verse of Quran otherwise what is the purpose of the existance of that verse right there!
Personally speaking I wish I could understand EVERY verse..

[sumuque]

Sorry if I jump in the conversation but I want to hignlight the position of aamantubillah here... I think he made a point here. It's important to know the meaning of every verse of Quran otherwise what is the purpose of the existance of that verse right there!
Personally speaking I wish I could understand EVERY verse..

Dear faithful

I am sorry to inform you that you can not understand the meaning of evey verse of Quran.

"3:7 He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed"

[ihsan]

Understanding 1:
Solomon pretty much said, "Who can do this". One of the jinn said, "Me, I'll do it pretty fast". Then Solomon himself replied, "but i can do it even faster" and when it happened, he said, "This is a test to see if I'm grateful or not".

Now, regarding that understanding. There are several questions. Does it break up anywhere? Meaning, does the "this is a bounty from God" logically follow Solomon himself bringing this miracle or would it make more sense if it was someone else? Furthermore, does the text of the Quran when it uses the word "one who" or "alladhī" support or nullify this understanding

Understanding 2:
It was another man and your post helps explain this.

Now, this brings some questions in my mind. What is the benefit of having someone else perform this...well, "miracle" and it goes on, can a non-Prophet/Messenger perform a miracle; does the Qur'an give examples? I think the case of Maryam is exempt because she did not make the birth happen, it was Allah doing it without her input.

Furthermore, why did Solomon not do it himself? Why ask a Jinn in the first place or even ask someone else? How would the even speedier delivery affect anything? Also, al khidr did not perform any miracles and what he did in the Quran is actually quite human...so can we definitively say that al khidr even possessed such abilities? Even in the ahadith I don't believe he has any such abilities.

Wa salaam,

1.

The first point I'd like to bring out is that the statement of Sulayman (R) being grateful is made multiple times in this surah, the primary message being that Sulayman, despite the kingdom granted to him, always recognized it as originating from God. For example, when Sulayman hears the statement of the ants, he (R) proclaims:

So he smiled, wondering at her word, and said: My Lord! grant me that I should be grateful for Thy favor which Thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I should do good such as Thou art pleased with, and make me enter, by Thy mercy, into Thy servants, the good ones.

I believe the following statement, in the context of your question is a comment by Allah, stating that, like Sulayman, man should appreciate and be grateful for the bounties of Allah, not exultant like a Pharoah, or the people of Saba.

So when he came to Sulaiman, he said: What! will you help me with wealth? But what Allah has given me is better than what He has given you. Nay, you are exultant because of your present;

2.

Whether Sulayman had gotten the throne or some other person would be irrelevant to this statement of gratitude, for it could be said in either case. In this particular context, IMO, it refers to the specific bounty Allah had given to Sulayman, like the ability to hear animals, that Allah did not grant to anybody else. He not only had the strong and mighty djinn subjected to him, but he also had people that were versed in a specific knowledge that allowed them to perform certain feats. I believe there is a comparison between divine knowledge and strength being alluded to here as well, with divine knowledge being supreme over physical strength.

3.

I believe it was somebody other than SUlayman (AS), because of what follows:

Then when he saw it settled beside him, he said

[faithful]

Dear faithful

I am sorry to inform you that you can not understand the meaning of evey verse of Quran.

"3:7 He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed"

Sumuque,
The verse talks about the "obscure vereses" like "Alif-laam-meem" and so on, yeah, you are right those verses, only ALLAH knows their meanings.. I wasn't talking about those though..
Well.. thank you for correcting me I can't know the meaning of those.. I'll correct my sentence then: I wish to understand every verse minus those.. Relax Sumuque.

[ihsan]

Dear faithful

I am sorry to inform you that you can not understand the meaning of evey verse of Quran.

"3:7 He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed"

Surah Baqarah and surah Imran are pairs, and the parallel verses to this verse of Surah Imran, as well as the context surrounding the parallel verse is:

And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.
But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it), then be on your guard against the fire of which men and stones are the fuel; it is prepared for the unbelievers.
And convey good news to those who believe and do good deeds, that they shall have gardens in which rivers flow; whenever they shall be given a portion of the fruit thereof, they shall say: This is what was given to us before; and they shall be given the like of it, and they shall have pure mates in them, and in them, they shall abide.
Surely Allah is not ashamed to set forth any parable-- (that of) a gnat or any thing above that; then as for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, they say: What is it that Allah means by this parable: He causes many to err by it and many He leads aright by it! but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors,

The Quran challenges those who reject to produce a chapter like it prior to these verses, in order to engage the disbelievers to engage the Book for themselves, not for the sake of challenge, thus the statement "you shall never be able to do it". The Quran then goes on to argue that when engaging this Book, one has to come with a proper attitude. A person's ultimate destiny is contingent upon the attitude with this Book, thus seriousness is an essential quality. This seriousness is often defined in the Quran with the word 'taqwa'. If a person wants to poke fun of the Quran by arguing about why Allah has chosen to use a 'gnat' to convey some greater reality, then it is their loss. The Quran does not stop with explaining the attitude of the disbelievers, but gives the rationale implicitly why Allah uses parabales. The high-lighted verse is preceded by a statement on jannah, which is one of many realitites that can only be explained through parables, because the life of paradise has not yet been experienced. Human knowledge is essentially based upon concrete experience and such type of knowledge can only be explained in this manner. These disbelievers, argue baselessly on these type of verses which explain the unseen, not in order to understand. Because of this attitude, they lose themselves not understanding the actual message they convey, which is actually clear in itself.

The difference though between Baqarah and Imran is that the latter is an attitude of trying to obtain something that simply isn't possible out of some curiosity and exxagerated belief, while Baqarah refers to an attitude of arrogance and being nit-picky. The Quran condemns both types of attitudes and strikes a middle path. Surah Imran revolves around beliefs regarding Jesus (AS), obviously indicating that the proimary attitude of exxaggeration of beliefs is a quality of the Christians, while Baqarah is primarily regarding the Jews.

In surah Yusuf, the word 'mutashabihat' is also used in relation to the dream of Yusuf (AS), where he envisioned the sun, moon and planets bowing down to him. Though he had an understanding of the meaning this dream, the true manifestation of it was only realized when Yusuf (AS) ascended the throne and his parents and borthers bowed down to him. This is the same case with the mutashabihat in general. One can only truly realize the meaning when it happens, though the intellectual understanding is somehwat present. Every verse in the Quran is applicable to guidance and this is why Allah states, in relation to the issue of 19, that the believers increase in their faith. There is nothing 'strange' in Allah managing the hell-fire with a host of nineteen angels. The disbelievers boasted about the number of their hosts, and they poked fun that if such is the case with hell, then their own hosts would be able to handle these nineteen. The believer on the other hand would say, how terrifying must this manifestation of ALlah's might be, such that these 19 angels handle all of hell and the multitude of men?

[sumuque]

Sumuque,
The verse talks about the "obscure vereses" like "Alif-laam-meem" and so on, yeah, you are right those verses, only ALLAH knows their meanings.. I wasn't talking about those though..
Well.. thank you for correcting me I can't know the meaning of those.. I'll correct my sentence then: I wish to understand every verse minus those.. Relax Sumuque.

I don't know from where did you get this Idea that 3:7 is talking about "obscure verses" ?? and even is it not strange that you call them "obscure verses" where Koran claimed otherwise ?

And by the way, I wish you all the best ;-)