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Thread: salafi takfiris

  1. #1
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    Default salafi takfiris

    I just listened to a lecture on deviant groups of muslims given by a salafi.
    Last edited by Algebra; 19th February 2010 at 18:30.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    honestly I feel sorry for these people, the ummah really must make a greater effort to reach out to these salafis.

    Their ideas incubate in their solitude and fester.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    Any links?

    Did you not like the content or your perceiving of their "hate speech". Just curious.
    To anyone reading my posts:
    I used to be hadith rejector. After studying hadith at a surface level, I realized the large amount of nonsense dispelled by this forum and their top users. The exemptions are Al Boriqi, Nawawi, Lumumba and hlatif (who is no longer here). My advice, leave this forum. If you read anything of me rejecting hadith, know that it is nonsense and I no longer hold that view. Read my "Bio" for more info.

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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    I find their attitude towards the plurality of islam disturbing.

    I did link to the lecture, but then decided to delete the link since the person just rambled on and on about how the ummah is in the bad shape it is because muslims have gone astray - and ofcourse it is us non-muslims that have led them astray.

    In fact in the beginning of the lecture he says the shias were a group who were "created" by a jew who pretended to be muslim to lead muslims astray by claiming that a prophet has a key disciple and the "key" disciple of Mohammed was Ali.

    here is the link for you anyway...

    Review:

    The brother Abu Iyaad, may Allaah reward him, gives us an exploration into the different groups of Islaam. This division is a division that was prophetised by the Prophet, sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, something that is inevitable. This lecture give us many examples on how the kuffar have influenced the Muslims into innovating and inventing ideologies. From 'Abdullaah ibn Saba', the Jew who instigated, if not created the Shia, to the Marxists theologians who influenced Sayyid Qutb.
    http://www.troid.org/index.php?optio...981&Itemid=333

    I find this obsession with deviation from the "right" way a disturbing feature of the salafis.

    Salafis have attempted to wreak havoc on my marriage when some of the "knowledgeable sisters and brothers" my wife talked to in confidence about our marriage, advised her to divorce me or she would be committing zina.

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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    Have you created this thread as a result of their advice to your wife?
    To anyone reading my posts:
    I used to be hadith rejector. After studying hadith at a surface level, I realized the large amount of nonsense dispelled by this forum and their top users. The exemptions are Al Boriqi, Nawawi, Lumumba and hlatif (who is no longer here). My advice, leave this forum. If you read anything of me rejecting hadith, know that it is nonsense and I no longer hold that view. Read my "Bio" for more info.

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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    The advice to my wife certainly did not endear me to them. However I see them as being a source of discordance in the ummah.

    All communities and religions have these discordant elements, the fundamentalist evangelicals of christianity and the Zionist (religious and nationalist) variety of judaism.

    The Haredi (Orthodox jews) reject zionism as being anti-judaism in philosophy.

    I have no problem with the muftis and scholars of islam, their judgements are tempered by years of study and an understanding of the plight of humanity.

    It is these self styled and self appointed guardians of the religion - the zionists and the salafis who hold our religions hostage.

    In israel there is a move by both all spectrums of society to reject zionism and educate against it, which is why North American jews are so zionist, but israeli jews think they are nuts.

    The unfortunate problem is that salafis have the funding of the saudi govt to spread their insanity in poor countries like sudan and pakistan.

    They are creating havoc in those countries.

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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    I agree that the main problem especially contemporarily within Islam is the whole Do-It-Yourself attitude. As I mentioned many times in other threads, although scholars are not perfect (no one has ever claimed such a thing) they have devoted decades of specialized study of one or more of the Islamic sciences (sciences here mean Islamic Jurisprudence, Islamic Legal Theory, Quranic Exegesis, Hadith Sciences, Theology, etc etc). Legitimate scholars of Islam also have continuity with the Islamic tradition of learning and teaching, meaning they learned from scholars who learned from scholars that can trace their learning and teaching back to the Prophet Muhammad salla llahu alayhi wa alihi wa sallam.

    A lot of the debates on this forum and outside in the real world are, most of them, subject and topics that have been solved centuries ago by qualified people, only to be reopened at a time where since the 19th Century, the systemic collapse of the shariah became a reality due to incursions of European colonialist project and the advent of the nation-state system.
    The Prophet Muhammad (Salla Llahu alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) said, “Verily Allah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people but He takes away knowledge by taking away the scholars, so that when He leaves no learned person, people appoint ignorant as their leaders. They are asked to deliver religious verdicts and they deliver them without knowledge, they go astray, and lead others astray.” [Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim]

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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    Salam Nawawi,
    As I mentioned many times in other threads, although scholars are not perfect (no one has ever claimed such a thing) they have devoted decades of specialized study of one or more of the Islamic sciences (sciences here mean Islamic Jurisprudence, Islamic Legal Theory, Quranic Exegesis, Hadith Sciences, Theology, etc etc).
    Is this scholarship considered to pass down the information or is there some sort of developmental aspect to it in which matters are questioned and discussed? If the latter is closer to what is correct can you cite on major ruling that was overturned at some point?

    Regards

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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Salam Nawawi,

    Is this scholarship considered to pass down the information or is there some sort of developmental aspect to it in which matters are questioned and discussed? If the latter is closer to what is correct can you cite on major ruling that was overturned at some point?

    Regards
    i get your sentiment.

    yes, rulings have been overturned quite commonly by jurists. The practice of tarjih by a mujtahid imaams is that he reviews rulings and the underlying principle behind it, and then passes them as established or defunct or inapplicable depending on several factors.

    as for scholarly discussion, usually methodologies are formed after the formation of arguments and the ahlul-hadeeth versus ahlul-ra'i debate prior to Shafi'i is a prime example of this, and Shafi'i reconciliating between both methods and unifying them towards a single methodology thereby causing the ahlul-hadeeth to indirectly agree with the theory of ahlul-ra'i on qiyaas as the main pivotal issue.

    asalamu alaikum
    Islamic Thought In the Modern Era of the Islamic Awakening: Dissemination of Islamic research and studies
    al-Mustaqeem Publications
    “The bonds of Islam will be broken one by one. Every time a bond is undone, the people will cling to the bond that follows. The first of these bonds is rulership (khilaafa) and the last is the prayer (salah).” Reported by Ahmad and Tabarani. Al-Hakim stated that the chain is authentic.

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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Algebra View Post
    I just listened to a lecture on deviant groups of muslims given by a salafi.
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by Algebra View Post
    honestly I feel sorry for these people, the ummah really must make a greater effort to reach out to these salafis.

    Their ideas incubate in their solitude and fester.
    interesting on how an entire ideological framework coupled with the pragmatic livelihood of an entire group is formed through your perception over a lecture, the basis of which you do not understand the rules of the shariah to appreciate or understand.
    Islamic Thought In the Modern Era of the Islamic Awakening: Dissemination of Islamic research and studies
    al-Mustaqeem Publications
    “The bonds of Islam will be broken one by one. Every time a bond is undone, the people will cling to the bond that follows. The first of these bonds is rulership (khilaafa) and the last is the prayer (salah).” Reported by Ahmad and Tabarani. Al-Hakim stated that the chain is authentic.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Nawawi619 View Post
    I agree that the main problem especially contemporarily within Islam is the whole Do-It-Yourself attitude. As I mentioned many times in other threads, although scholars are not perfect (no one has ever claimed such a thing) they have devoted decades of specialized study of one or more of the Islamic sciences (sciences here mean Islamic Jurisprudence, Islamic Legal Theory, Quranic Exegesis, Hadith Sciences, Theology, etc etc). Legitimate scholars of Islam also have continuity with the Islamic tradition of learning and teaching, meaning they learned from scholars who learned from scholars that can trace their learning and teaching back to the Prophet Muhammad salla llahu alayhi wa alihi wa sallam.

    A lot of the debates on this forum and outside in the real world are, most of them, subject and topics that have been solved centuries ago by qualified people, only to be reopened at a time where since the 19th Century, the systemic collapse of the shariah became a reality due to incursions of European colonialist project and the advent of the nation-state system.
    the topic has nothing to do with "free lance thinkers"
    which is your absurd way of insinuating that ahlu-sunnah are somehow free lance pundits of the shariah, ironically opposite of other polemical sufis and ash'aris who accuse ahlu-sunnah of being muqalids of their own scholars.
    Islamic Thought In the Modern Era of the Islamic Awakening: Dissemination of Islamic research and studies
    al-Mustaqeem Publications
    “The bonds of Islam will be broken one by one. Every time a bond is undone, the people will cling to the bond that follows. The first of these bonds is rulership (khilaafa) and the last is the prayer (salah).” Reported by Ahmad and Tabarani. Al-Hakim stated that the chain is authentic.

  12. #12

    Default Re: salafi takfiris

    I agree that there are some extremist salafis but it does not mean that who ever highlights deviations of any group from Quran and sunnah may be labeled as "Takfiiri".

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