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Thread: playing chess

  1. #1
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    Default playing chess

    Can I ask my learned friends

    1. Is playing chess forbidden in Islam according to schoalrs and hadith

    2. What is the justification

  2. #2
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    Default Re: playing chess

    As far as I recall, it was associated with gambling, hence it was not permitted. As far as the removal of any gambling, I believe there is a difference of opinion whether its permitted or makruh.
    To anyone reading my posts:
    I used to be hadith rejector. After studying hadith at a surface level, I realized the large amount of nonsense dispelled by this forum and their top users. The exemptions are Al Boriqi, Nawawi, Lumumba and hlatif (who is no longer here). My advice, leave this forum. If you read anything of me rejecting hadith, know that it is nonsense and I no longer hold that view. Read my "Bio" for more info.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member lumumba_s's Avatar
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    Default Re: playing chess

    1. According to the majority of scholars, the final say on the matter is that it is makruh or haram if done frequently, but if done only occasionally, is excusable.
    2. It was not necessarily associated with gambling, but with being a wasting of time that had no palpable benefit to the religion or society at large. Shaykh Hamza Yusuf wrote an article for Zaytuna's publication that is one of the most thorough in the English language: Chess in Light of the Jurist. In my opinion, the conclusion is more important than the subject matter of the article and is perhaps more relevant in our time than in any.

    Wa-LLahu `alim

  4. #4
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    Default Re: playing chess

    Quote Originally Posted by DocW View Post
    Can I ask my learned friends

    1. Is playing chess forbidden in Islam according to schoalrs and hadith

    2. What is the justification
    Salam,

    In his well-known book, The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam, the prominent Muslim scholar, Sheik Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:

    "Chess is a very popular game, and the opinion of jurists concerning it varies. Some scholars consider it halal (permissible), others consider it makruh (reprehensible), and still others consider it haram (unlawful).

    Those who consider it haram cite some hadiths in support of their view, but researchers have proved that chess did not appear until after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Thus all such hadiths must have been fabricated.

    The Companions of the Prophet (may Allah be pleased with them all) themselves held different views about playing chess. Ibn `Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said that it is worse than backgammon and `Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) regarded it as gambling (perhaps meaning when it is played for money), while some others merely expressed disapproval of it.

    However, some Companions and some of the second generation of scholars allowed it. Among those were Ibn `Abbas, Abu Hurayrah, Ibn Sirin, Hisham bin `Umrah, and Sa`id Ibn Al-Musayyib. We agree with those great jurists, since the original principle is the permissibility of acts and no text is to be found prohibiting it.

    Moreover, in addition to being a game and a recreation, chess is also a mental exercise which requires thought and planning. In this respect, it is the opposite of backgammon, for while backgammon is a game of chance and therefore comparable to divining with arrows, chess is a game of skill and strategy, which may be compared to archery.

    However, playing chess is permissible only if the following conditions are met:

    1- One should not get so absorbed in it that he delays his prayer; chess is well-known to be a stealer of time.

    2- There should be no gambling involved.

    3- The players should not utter obscenities or vulgarities.

    If any of these conditions are not met it should be considered as haram."

    You can also read:

    Islam and Recreation

    May Allah guide you to the straight path, and direct you to that which pleases Him, Amen.
    Allah Almighty knows best.


    Your Mufti


    Your Contribution
    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503543132

    Regards.




  5. #5
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    Default Re: playing chess

    LOL - the notion that chess is gambling is just ludicrous.

    There is no element of luck or chance in chess.

    It is a game of skill and intellect, and a "scholar" that tells you its gambling is...not very "scholarly".

  6. #6
    Veteran Member lumumba_s's Avatar
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    Default Re: playing chess

    The issue with chess and gambling has nothing to do with it being a game of chance, it clearly is not. The issue with chess and gambling is that people used to place wagers on the winners. There were some scholars shortly after the Prophet's time who used to play the game backwards to demonstrate the strength of their memory. Please do not deride the scholars before understanding what it is they are saying. That is what is not scholarly.

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    Default Re: playing chess

    Quote Originally Posted by lumumba_s View Post
    . The issue with chess and gambling is that people used to place wagers on the winners. .
    If there is no element of luck or chance, then there is no gambling involved even if money is transacted.

    That is because by definition "gamblng" involves betting on an uncertainty.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: playing chess

    Algebra, the whole basis of gambling is where there are two equally matched opponents. This is why soccer games and horse races rake in so much gamblers. There would be no gambling if it was a child and an adult playing chess, would there?
    To anyone reading my posts:
    I used to be hadith rejector. After studying hadith at a surface level, I realized the large amount of nonsense dispelled by this forum and their top users. The exemptions are Al Boriqi, Nawawi, Lumumba and hlatif (who is no longer here). My advice, leave this forum. If you read anything of me rejecting hadith, know that it is nonsense and I no longer hold that view. Read my "Bio" for more info.

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    Default Re: playing chess

    You are right aamantubillah, I did not think of it in that way.

    However, since there is no element of luck in the game itself, the uncertainty is around the skill levels of the 2 players.

    Would that situation not be akin to backing one company over another if you are financer?

    In the end you are uncertain of the skill level of say apple over microsoft, and have to choose one.

    Or is it that islam forbids zero sum games?

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    Default Re: playing chess

    Algebra, the whole basis of gambling is where there are two equally matched opponents. This is why soccer games and horse races rake in so much gamblers. There would be no gambling if it was a child and an adult playing chess, would there?
    The gamblers in this scenario are not the participants. What happens when two closely skilled people wager on who is better? Is that gambling?

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    Default Re: playing chess

    Gambling has two components that go together to make it untasteful:

    1- The issue is unpredictable or not very predictable.

    2- The winner makes money out of the loss of the loser. It is this one that makes gambling not palatable.

    If you have the first one alone then sometimes you may have to deal with such situations/ transactions such as planting crop and waiting for rain. However, it is advised to enter it in the form of partnership where the winning and the losing are shared.

    Hussein
    To consider that our logic is logical all the time is actually illogical. To consider that our understanding of the text is correct all the time is also illogical.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: playing chess

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    The gamblers in this scenario are not the participants. What happens when two closely skilled people wager on who is better? Is that gambling?
    That's still gambling. Any wager involved in anything is gambling.
    To anyone reading my posts:
    I used to be hadith rejector. After studying hadith at a surface level, I realized the large amount of nonsense dispelled by this forum and their top users. The exemptions are Al Boriqi, Nawawi, Lumumba and hlatif (who is no longer here). My advice, leave this forum. If you read anything of me rejecting hadith, know that it is nonsense and I no longer hold that view. Read my "Bio" for more info.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: playing chess

    let us take this

    chess
    and
    salat (Ina salat kaanat ala muu minuun kitaaban Mawkutan)

    again let us assume (as many do) qasr salat;
    now what is to be postponed....
    During playing chess? or that (kitaaban mwakutaa)?

    i fell like this didn't answer yr question;
    but
    i hope i contribute at least one to think.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: playing chess

    Quote Originally Posted by Algebra View Post
    You are right aamantubillah, I did not think of it in that way.

    However, since there is no element of luck in the game itself, the uncertainty is around the skill levels of the 2 players.

    Would that situation not be akin to backing one company over another if you are financer?

    In the end you are uncertain of the skill level of say apple over microsoft, and have to choose one.

    Or is it that islam forbids zero sum games?
    I have no idea.
    Last edited by aamantubillah; 16th February 2010 at 04:04.
    To anyone reading my posts:
    I used to be hadith rejector. After studying hadith at a surface level, I realized the large amount of nonsense dispelled by this forum and their top users. The exemptions are Al Boriqi, Nawawi, Lumumba and hlatif (who is no longer here). My advice, leave this forum. If you read anything of me rejecting hadith, know that it is nonsense and I no longer hold that view. Read my "Bio" for more info.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member lumumba_s's Avatar
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    Default Re: playing chess

    Algebra: Are you seriously suggesting that someone financing and backing a product - sharing the risks and returns of trade - is the same as someone placing a wager on a sport or card game?

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