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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    answer from UI web site

    the Qur'an clearly tells us that during the time of the revelation of the Qur'an the Prophet (pbuh) is protected against all evil forces, by a special force appointed for the purpose by the Almighty. According to Al-Jinn 72: 27 - 28:

    As for those whom He [i.e. God] selects as His messengers He guards them - from front and from behind - so that it is ascertained that they have delivered the messages of their Lord.

    At Al-Maaidah 5: 67, the Qur'an says:

    O Messenger, deliver that which has been revealed to you from your Lord; if you do it not then you would not have delivered His message. And [do not fear your enemies,] Allah shall protect you against these people.

    It should be obvious from these verses of the Qur'an that even though the Banu Israel did try to harm the Prophet (pbuh) through magical spells and other occult arts, yet, according to the Qur'an, the Prophet (pbuh), especially during the time of the revelation of the Qur'an, was closely guarded by God and His appointed angels.

    Thus, if seen in the perspective of the Qur'an, there is not even a hint of any information, on the basis of which it could be said that the Prophet was ever under any magical spell. The Qur'an, on the contrary, leads us to believe that because of God's close guard over the Prophet (pbuh), no such harm could have befallen the Prophet (pbuh).

    However, there are a few Hadith, which inform us that the last two Surahs of the Qur'an were revealed at a time when the Prophet (pbuh) was under a magical spell. Two of the important points in the information given by these Hadith are:

    The Prophet (pbuh) remained under this magical spell for six months; and

    This spell caused amnesia in many of the day-to-day affairs of the Prophet (pbuh).

    It is quite obvious that the information given in these narratives is not only against the stated verses of the Qur'an, but also creates serious doubts about the infallibility of the prophets of God. After all, if God and His appointed angels could not (or did not) protect the Prophet (pbuh) against such a magical spell then what exactly is the implication of God's declaration mentioned in Al-Jinn 72: 27 - 28 and His promise mentioned in Al-Maaidah 5: 67?

    In view of the above explanation, I do not consider the narratives, on the basis of which it is held that the Prophet (pbuh) remained under the effects of a magical spell for sometime, to be correct. The event narrated is either forged or a big mistake on the part of its narrators.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatosk View Post
    Salam,And black magic does this exactly how?

    Regards,
    Salaam bro

    According to Moiz Amjad

    Quote:
    Magical spells relate to spiritual sciences. Experts in this field can affect our lives. This affect is psychological in nature. Because of its psychological nature, it can only affect people who have a weak psyche. People with true faith and unerring dependence on God are not affected by such spells.

    My understanding and I stress my own limited understanding is that majority of it are illusions like rabbit from the hat stuff. There is some serious black magic and perhaps it is in the shape of thought insertion , doubt etc. the same mechanism that is used by Satan. I refer to hypnotism in support of my answer. How they are able to take control of the mind and altar the way you perceive things. One of my patients went to see a hypnotist to seek help to give up smoking. The hypnotist, hypnotised the person and then told her that the reason for her smoking was the loss of her grand mother when she was a teenager, who used to smoke and smoking reminded her of her beloved grand parent and created a memory. However the patient had very painful flash backs afterwards for a very long time of her past. She did quit smoking.

    In our family physician training we had a session with a hypnotist. Some people refer to hypno therapist selected patients, these include, addictions like smoking, alcohol, drugs, social phobias, chronic pains and some psycho somatic pains like irritible bowel syndrome. The hypnotherapist invited a group of 5 volunteers to the front. She could not hypnotize two of them because she said there were " strong in mind" and "would not let go". so she had to swap them for two other volunteers.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    From Wikipedia

    White" Magic

    Depending upon how loose the denomination's philosophy is concerning magic, certain things may be allowed (even in Christianity, which often shuns any use of magic). This list is based upon the stances of churches and temples of various faiths concerning practices:

    Sutra (Spoken or written word is little different from prayer, although intent is important)
    Mudra (Religion typically allows mudras, or hand signs. For instance, the sign of the cross)
    Protection (Represents a desire to protect loved ones, so this is generally good. It can however, also be used in binding and sealing others.)
    Weather Magic (prayers or the like for rain or sun are done, even by the Church)
    Healing/Exorcism (The art of healing is seen as a miracle, and is done by the origin of Christianity, Jesus. Exorcism is allowed for the same reason, though exorcism rites are uncommon)
    Divination/Dowsing (Aside from the branch of divination known as necromancy, divination is regarded more as a spiritual gift than a form of magic)
    Alchemy (Potion making is part of healing above, although intent is once again an issue)
    Blessing People/Objects (This is a grey area, due to the laws on graving images, but even certain priests have staffs related to their office. Generally, it is considered acceptable)

    Black Magic

    Due to the laws of Christianity and other religions, there are certain taboos surrounding forms of magic. Although culture may place certain forms of magic in one side or another of this spectrum, there are in fact some cultural universals about conduct:

    Love spells (Although love is seen as a cultural good, compelling one to love another against their will is an enchantment, and is typically seen as mind control. The only acceptable love spell is one that attracts good fortune in love, without tampering with free will)
    True Name spells(The theory is, that knowing a person's true name allows control over the other, making this wrong for the same reason. This can also be used as a connection to the other person, or to free them from another's compulsion, so it is in the grey area)
    Voodoo(This is associated with the Law of Contagion in magic. Although the Law of Contagion can also be used for benevolent uses, such as finding missing persons, the act of voodoo or causing harm using this connection is inherently evil)
    Immortality rituals (From a Taoist perspective, life is finite, and wishing to live beyond one's natural span is not with the flow of nature. Beyond this, there is a major issue with immortality. Because of the need to test the results, the subjects must be killed. Even a spell to extend life may not be entirely good, especially if it draws life energy from another to sustain the spell.)
    Necromancy (For purposes of usage, this is defined not as general black magic, but as any magic having to do with death itself, either through divination of entrails, or the act of raising the dead bodily, as opposed to resurrection or CPR)
    Curses/Hexes (This is the spoken equivalent of voodoo, and is essentially a prayer gone bad. It can be as as simple as wishing something bad would happen to another, to a complex ritual. The difference between this and voodoo, is that it does not involve the law of contagion, but instead involves spoken or written words, and possible the true name of the target)
    Demon Summoning

    White magic is the original rituals, which embody the tenets of the religion in question. For Buddhism or Hinduism, this might be long and complex prayer sutras. Taoist and Shinto magic would largely be based upon fertility and nature rituals.
    Black magic is a corruption or misuse of such rituals, turning the cultural mores of the religion into self-serving or destructive. This could be something like making hexing dolls (which is explained in detail about how the original ritual came about as a result of attempting to honor the gods by making representations, in an entry on Chinese Taoist sorcery).

  4. #19
    naas lovethetruth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    Posted by aamantubillah
    I clearly don't accept that the Prophet pbuh, who has Allahs protection, guidance and support, to fall victim to a mere person. The Hadith you are referring to, from my memory, says something to the effect of "he didn't know what he was uttering". Impossible. The Peophet pbuh will be protected from such a thing.
    Then why was God not kind enough to protect the prophet from the people of Taif. Elaborate upon ' protected from such a thing '.

    Does Allah explicitly say the prophet was to be protected from magic?
    Do you believe the prophet transcended the profile of a normal human being like superman?

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    Response from UI Web site

    "As for those whom He [i.e. God] selects as His messengers, He guards them - from front and from behind - so that it is ascertained that they have delivered the messages of their Lord." - Al Jinn 72: 27 - 28

    "O Messenger, deliver that which has been revealed to you from your Lord; if you do it not then you would not have delivered His message. And [do not fear your enemies,] Allah shall protect you against these people." - Al Ma'idah 5: 67

    In my opinion the above two verses, refer mainly to the protection of the Prophet (PBUH) while he was delivering the Divine Message. He would be protected in such a way that he delivers the Message perfectly. If this is correct then it should be clear that the Prophet (PBUH) could still have got hurt like he did at Ta'if and the battle of Uhud. I would also add that when the Prophet (PBUH) was promised that God would protect him from the people that this was not referring to the battle of Uhud. It was a totally different occasion.

    As for the times in which the Prophet (PBUH) got hurt, I do not see these as negative. On the contrary, they may be viewed as positive. This has many reasons. The fact that a person is able to come on the battle field and strike the Prophet (PBUH) so hard and yet not kill him must surely have been utterly displeasing to the Prophet's (PBUH) enemies. They came so close so often and yet remained so far. It also showed the people's great rebellion; that they not only reject a Messenger of God after he made the truth as clear as day light but actually go as far as injuring him and attempting to murder him. They did indeed get what was coming to them. Furthermore, this was an occasion of testing the believers to see how they would react. There were some that lost all hope and began to flee but then there were others that remained firm. What is important to notice here is that none of these injuries did anything to message of God or its safe deliverance.

    However, when we talk of the Prophet (PBUH) being cast under spells, I think that this would probably affect the Message. The Hadith that refer to him being under a spell for six months would in my opinion most certainly have affected the Message. So, while the Prophet (PBUH) getting physically harmed does not contradict the cited verses of the Qur'an, the spiritual damage to him (through spells) in my opinion would.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    What doc said.

    The Prophet pbuh is not super human. You do not have to be to have Allahs protection.
    To anyone reading my posts:
    I used to be hadith rejector. After studying hadith at a surface level, I realized the large amount of nonsense dispelled by this forum and their top users. The exemptions are Al Boriqi, Nawawi, Lumumba and hlatif (who is no longer here). My advice, leave this forum. If you read anything of me rejecting hadith, know that it is nonsense and I no longer hold that view. Read my "Bio" for more info.

  7. #22
    naas lovethetruth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    In my opinion the above two verses, refer mainly to the protection of the Prophet (PBUH) while he was delivering the Divine Message. He would be protected in such a way that he delivers the Message perfectly.
    Read the bold statement carefully. To that extent I agree.

    What is important to notice here is that none of these injuries did anything to message of God or its safe deliverance.
    Agreed again wholeheartedly. Wouldn't it be the same if the injuries had been from magic?

    However, when we talk of the Prophet (PBUH) being cast under spells, I think that this would probably affect the Message. The Hadith that refer to him being under a spell for six months would in my opinion most certainly have affected the Message. So, while the Prophet (PBUH) getting physically harmed does not contradict the cited verses of the Qur'an, the spiritual damage to him (through spells) in my opinion would.
    Since I assume you agree with the above statement tell me on what basis does the writer assume that the spells would affect the message. If you can elaborate-:
    Does it not entail from the above mentioned ayahs that it is Allah's will that the message will remain protected no matter what?
    Do you assume that magic will corrupt the message which was otherwise protected in Muhammad's heart by Allah?
    Has the writer experienced or seen cases of such episodes as to derive the conclusion mentioned by him?

    In my opinion the message would have always been protected no matter what injury (psychological or physical) the prophet faced.
    Do you believe no messengers were slain in their endeavors?

    I ask again,
    Does Allah explicitly say the prophet was to be protected from magic?

  8. #23
    Veteran Member Nawawi619's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    Quote Originally Posted by aamantubillah View Post
    What doc said.

    The Prophet pbuh is not super human. You do not have to be to have Allahs protection.
    The prophet muhammad salla llahu alayhi wa sallam is the best of creation and a mercy to all of the worlds as attested in countless quranic ayat and hadith.

    I think the posts already showing the du'a and quranic surahs to be recited show the remedies for black magic. We dont need to get into a philosophical discussion about black magic, when magic is mentioned clearly in the quran and hadith.
    The Prophet Muhammad (Salla Llahu alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) said, “Verily Allah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people but He takes away knowledge by taking away the scholars, so that when He leaves no learned person, people appoint ignorant as their leaders. They are asked to deliver religious verdicts and they deliver them without knowledge, they go astray, and lead others astray.” [Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim]

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    If we accept that a person is under a magic spell and according to some ahadith upto 6 months and then that person is claiming not just to the converted but to the non believers that he is the prophet og God and has Divine guidance coming directly to him. This would question the authenticity of what he claims to reveal.

    In my opinion to accept that prophet was under a magic spell but the Divine message remained unaffected seems too far stretched.

    I appreciate the problem that for some accepting ahadith is obligatory. In my humble opinion as per quote from web site, the hadith contradicts Quran and thus remains unreliable.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    Salam,

    Sorry for the belated reply.
    Quote Originally Posted by DocW View Post
    There is some serious black magic and perhaps it is in the shape of thought insertion , doubt etc. [...] I refer to hypnotism in support of my answer.
    I such a case there's still no "magic" involved. Cognitive hypnotherapy is merely induced suggestibility and cognitive imprint. There's nothing supernatural about it at all. As an aside, hypnotherapy as a practice hasn't a very good track record, either.

    Regards,
    think

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    Quote Originally Posted by DocW View Post
    I appreciate the problem that for some accepting ahadith is obligatory. In my humble opinion as per quote from web site, the hadith contradicts Quran and thus remains unreliable.
    Rather than speculate, one should probably consult the hadith commentaries for proper explanation of the hadith. I would need to know the hadith reference so I can ask my teachers for the commentary and reference. We cannot on our own amateur opinion determine what contradicts or affirms Quran. This is a scholarly judgment that cant be simply ascertained simply by looking at the apparent english meaning of any hadith or quranic ayat.

    That is why we have an exegetical tradition in Islam that is peer reviewed.
    The Prophet Muhammad (Salla Llahu alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) said, “Verily Allah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people but He takes away knowledge by taking away the scholars, so that when He leaves no learned person, people appoint ignorant as their leaders. They are asked to deliver religious verdicts and they deliver them without knowledge, they go astray, and lead others astray.” [Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim]

  12. #27
    naas lovethetruth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    First and foremost it can be termed as 'disputed' as to what the effects of a magic spell entail.

    Originally posted by DOCW
    If we accept that a person is under a magic spell and according to some ahadith upto 6 months and then that person is claiming not just to the converted but to the non believers that he is the prophet og God and has Divine guidance coming directly to him.
    When people get depressed or acquire psychological diseases do employers suddenly pull the plug on them too. The point is the prophet had established his prophethood proof for many years and had then suddenly fallen victim to some mysterious phenomena, in this case magic I don't think people would suddenly claim he is not a prophet because he is ill.

    This would question the authenticity of what he claims to reveal.
    How??
    Are you assuming that a person after being affected with such spells starts acting completely insane?
    A similar phenomena is diseases related to depression. Apart from really bad cases patients act normally and go about doing their daily chores as every other day.

    Don't worry the authenticity claim was God's job at that moment to make sure people got the right message.

    In my opinion to accept that prophet was under a magic spell but the Divine message remained unaffected seems too far stretched.
    Tell me something if Allah told you He is going to make sure that you remember something, then will anything be it magic, injury or any accident of nature keep Allah from going back on his word.

    As I said earlier we need to develop an understanding of this phenomena first because if you have not stepped in the water you will never know how much warm it is, isn't it like that? or should we be relying on airborne hollow theories with no concrete proof behind them.

    Regards

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    In my humble opinion if I say to a non Muslim participant on the forum that The Prophet of Allah was under a magic spell however the message was unaffected , perhaps I may get a sarcastic response.

    A doctor performed an operation to remove the appendix under influence of alcohol and was fine.

    I appreciate your point of view and I think we may have to agree to disagree.

    The principle point of difference of opinion is our opinion on the importance and significance of ahadith and I think we are not going to change our opinions on this issue.

    Bro Nawawi! I respect your opinion and view, however most humbly I tend to disagree. I do not feel I am dishonouring the religion by asking a question, if in your opinion discussion involving religion should only take place between scholars then I may most humbly disagree with this view point. You reserve the right to not answer a question if you feel it is inappropriate. I have my opinion on issues and the way people should conduct themselves abeit I would ensure that I apply my views and ethos on myself, I would not try to force my opinion and views on others. This is a discussion forum, its purpose is for people to exchange views within the limits defined by the COC.

  14. #29
    naas lovethetruth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    Originally posted by DocW
    In my humble opinion if I say to a non Muslim participant on the forum that The Prophet of Allah was under a magic spell however the message was unaffected , perhaps I may get a sarcastic response.
    Aren't we supposed to stick to the truth no matter what??
    Or should we strive to conform for other people's perceptions sake.

    A doctor performed an operation to remove the appendix under influence of alcohol and was fine.
    The same doctor can perform the operation if he is depressed.
    You are missing the point. The intensity of influence differs. Mental or physical anguish doesn't mean inability to perform necessarily. If on the other hand Allah had assured the doctor that his hand shalt not tremble it will be don't you agree yes?.

    The principle point of difference of opinion is our opinion on the importance and significance of ahadith and I think we are not going to change our opinions on this issue.
    oh No. Believe me I have doubts on the importance and significance of ahadith so you can be assured that I agree with people when they say that such and such hadith doesn't make sense. But in this case I have different doubts I think it says right to some extent or to a whole extent.

    I appreciate your point of view and I think we may have to agree to disagree.
    If you say so!

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Help to remove black magic

    Salam brother Nawawi,

    Of course, there is a not single human being that can deny that Muhammad peace be upon him is a mercy for mankind. The Quran attests to this, and there is no higher authority than Allah swt. What I was adressing was the question lovethetruth asked. His point was that the Prophet pbuh is not super human and indeed is able to be put under a magic spell. The definition of "super human" is one simmilar to spiderman or superman.

    Salam brother lovethetruth,

    If we look at the very chapters of the Quran that are revealed (in regard to warding off magic) and at the time when the Prophet pbuh is supposed to have been put under a magic spell and at the particualr hadith in question we can see some issues arising.

    The problem is that these two surahs of the Quran were revealed in Mecca, not Madina, the place which where the Prophet pbuh is supposed to have been put under a spell.

    What I have explained earlier, to my knoweldge, is the opinion of Sayyid Qutb, the author of In the Shade of the Quran.

    I shall inshaAllah attach the relevent pictures of the concept of magic from this book.



    To anyone reading my posts:
    I used to be hadith rejector. After studying hadith at a surface level, I realized the large amount of nonsense dispelled by this forum and their top users. The exemptions are Al Boriqi, Nawawi, Lumumba and hlatif (who is no longer here). My advice, leave this forum. If you read anything of me rejecting hadith, know that it is nonsense and I no longer hold that view. Read my "Bio" for more info.

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