What is the value of prayer?

[ihsan]

Im not getting at anything, I am simply stating that praying cannot be counted as a "good" act.

Praying at 2-3 am, is not a righteous act, as many muslims will try to tell you.

Worshippin God is not a righteuous act? Which religion to you even follow? It sure doesn't seem to be Christianity...

[Ramsey]

A possible reason why prayer is a good act.

First, I would like to say that God commands those things that are good for you. God has no needs. I'm afraid that without taking this as an axiom the latter parts might not make much sense.

Prayer, is a good thing. This is for many reasons, one of which is that it is transformative. By praying we are reminded of who we are. Sincere prayer will increase our possibility to do good deeds. A more complete explanation is given in the thread I linked to at the start of this thread.

So we are rewarded for doing as is commanded to us and we are rewarded for doing something that will improve ourselves and others.

I am not saying that prayer is the most important thing, but it has its place and it is a good act. Islam works best as a whole, and prayer aids in this.

[Algebra]

Worshippin God is not a righteuous act? Which religion to you even follow? It sure doesn't seem to be Christianity...

Its not a righteous act, in and of itself.

[ihsan]

Its not a righteous act, in and of itself.

How is it not? Expressing gratitude for the bounties of the Lord is not a rightuous act? Like I said, what religion do you follow, because it surely isn't Christianity...

[Algebra]

So you admit they prayed three times a day, before denying it and the OT testifies to it... So people like Daniel and David and the Jews in general just prayed these 3 prayers coincidentally at particular times a day, while facing a particular direction, not because it was part of their law? So falling on their faces and standing before the Lord weren't Jewish rituals either?

How do you know they didn't pray 10 times a day? There is no law that commands three prayers a day.

The Sukkot festival is one such example which included circumambulation of the Temple altar...

Yes you are right there.

I doubt there is any connection between that tradition and the circumambulation of the hajj, but to each their own interpretation.

[Algebra]

How is it not? Expressing gratitude for the bounties of the Lord is not a rightuous act?
Like I said, what religion do you follow, because it surely isn't Christianity...

I would say that sharing the bounties of the Lord is a righteous act.

Thanking the Lord is of no value if you hoard those bounties.

But yes, it is also right that one should be grateful for the bounties on is given.

[lumumba_s]

What is your definition of a righteous act?

[Algebra]

What is your definition of a righteous act?

The Hebrew word for righteousness is tseh'-dek, tzedek, Gesenius's Strong's Concordance:6664—righteous, integrity, equity, justice, straightness. The root of tseh'-dek is tsaw-dak', Gesenius's Strong:6663—upright, just, straight, innocent, true, sincere. It is best understood as the product of upright, moral action in accordance with some form of divine plan.

[-Farrah-]

Salaam Algebra,

Its not a righteous act, in and of itself.

I would say that sharing the bounties of the Lord is a righteous act.
Thanking the Lord is of no value if you hoard those bounties.

But yes, it is also right that one should be grateful for the bounties on is given.

"If you count the blessings of Allah, never will you be able to count them." [Quran 14:34]

God has bestowed infinite bounties upon us for which we ought to be grateful. Gratitude is only one of several reasons why we pray (the other reasons have been covered already in this thread and for simplicity I shall only deal with praying out of gratitude in this post).

If someone gives you something (e.g. a gift) and you thank that person/show gratitude, then surely that is a righteous act. To merely do nothing is inconsiderate, thoughtless and rude.

If you then proceed to share this gift (bounties) with others, then this act of generosity/kindness is another righteous act. So now you have 2 or more righteous acts. Of course, even if you decide not to share your gift/bounties, then that still does not detract from the fact that you have already done a righteous act in expressing gratitude.

So your statement that prayer is “not a righteous act, in and of itself” is inaccurate. Praying out of gratitude is a righteous act in itself; it is NOT absolutely necessary to further share that gift/bounty in order for it to qualify as a righteous act (though admittedly that would be a further commendable, righteous act). Sincerity in prayer is assumed.

[lumumba_s]

The Hebrew word for righteousness is tseh'-dek, tzedek, Gesenius's Strong's Concordance:6664—righteous, integrity, equity, justice, straightness. The root of tseh'-dek is tsaw-dak', Gesenius's Strong:6663—upright, just, straight, innocent, true, sincere. It is best understood as the product of upright, moral action in accordance with some form of divine plan.

So righteousness in a Hebrew context only applies to moral acts with benefit to others? Thus, the issue at hand is that it seems you de-value prayer because of the moral obligation that Islam places upon it and its selfish benefit? Is that a correct assessment?

[Algebra]

Thus, the issue at hand is that it seems you de-value prayer because of the moral obligation that Islam places upon it and its selfish benefit? Is that a correct assessment?

Yes that is accurate.

[lumumba_s]

You do not believe that someone getting up at 2 in the morning to pray is a righteous act, even though such a prayer is not obligatory. You seem to have more of an issue with the moral classifications of Islam than anything else. Is it fair to say that you do not believe that God rewards obedience? I'm not fishing by the way, I am just curious.

[muhtadiyah]

It is quite clear from all these references, that the Jews, as well as even the deviant Christians like Paul, followed a particular ritual of prayer, accorded to some time reference.

If it were 'quite clear' then you should be able to describe the particular ritual in detail; however, you cannot. What is clear is that early christians prayed, and in some cases the NT mentions the time of day in the context of the story.

I entered this conversation to correct the assertion that Christianity commands ritualized prayer similar to Islam. It does not, neither does the Tanakh. I have no doubt that Jews may have prayed at certain times of the day according to some stylized ritual, and it's quite possible that the earliest Jewish Christians followed suit. However, it is not mandated by scripture. Prayer in the NT is primarily spoken of as a means of communication between the believer and their 'Father in heaven.' Therefore emphasis is placed on attitude, motives, and issues that would affect that relationship. Whether Christians adopt or develop any systematic form (and many religious orders have done exactly that) is left to for them to decide according to their cultural context and psychological needs.

[Algebra]

Is it fair to say that you do not believe that God rewards obedience? I'm not fishing by the way, I am just curious.

God rewards obedience.

[lumumba_s]

So your only contention is prayer being called a righteous act, not that the prayer is rewarded by God, even if He has obliged it upon the worshipper?