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God created the world in 7 days - Page 2
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Thread: God created the world in 7 days

  1. #16
    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by ihsan View Post
    but the scale of that time is not seven days from our frame of reference point.
    but in who's frame of reference is it 7 days? God then? So you say God is in the time frame only in a different perspective.. you deny he is outside of the timeflow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadiq_b View Post
    MF it would help, if you could post the relevant Quranic verse on which you are basing your question.
    You don't mean the creation of 7 days right? you mean the claim that god is outside the time flow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadiq_b View Post
    I say that because you are asking something at random, and I would like to know what was the context.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Yahyah claimed something at random. Perhaps you can ask him for a verse.

    Quote Originally Posted by muhtadiyah View Post
    I don't see a problem with saying that God exists both within and outside time. Is that somehow objectionable?
    I guess.. I don't know.
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

  2. #17
    Veteran Member sumuque's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by muhtadiyah View Post
    I don't see a problem with saying that God exists both within and outside time. Is that somehow objectionable?
    There are problems with this, if god exists in time then his all knowing "god-ship" is in danger. When ever He has to choose something, there is an element of uncertainty in his mind and until and unless he reaches a decision, which will take time, his claim of all knowing becomes false.
    Last edited by sumuque; 17th November 2009 at 23:40.
    So, too, the creeds of man: the one prevails
    Until the other comes; and this one fails
    When that one triumphs; ay, the lonesome world
    Will always want the latest fairy tales.
    Al-Ma'arri

  3. #18

    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    word used in Quran for 7 days doesn't mean 7 24hr days literally. It means "period of time." Reference of 7 days is for humans and stages of creation of and in the universe(s).



  4. #19
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    but in who's frame of reference is it 7 days? God then? So you say God is in the time frame only in a different perspective.. you deny he is outside of the timeflow?
    In surah Hadeed, Allah states:

    He is before as well as after everything; and over and under everything and [,therefore,] He is aware of everything.
    Before and after clearly refer to the limitations imposed by time.
    Over and under clearly refer to the limitations imposed by space.

    The Quran also states in multiple places:

    "In the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and day"
    The first aspect, heavens and earth refer to what lies above and below, i.e. space. The alternation of night and day clearly refer to time. Thus, Allah Almighty is referring to both space and time as revealing his creative power.

    The Quran does not specify, just that it was created during 7 specific stages. Stages implies planning and planning implies purpose.
    "Those who deny the strength of truth,
    God does not give them courage." - Bulleh Shah

  5. #20
    (THOAT-wob-lur MAN-grove)
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by MF View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if Yahyah claimed something at random. Perhaps you can ask him for a verse.
    A verse for what??

    Look, I'm just going to have to lay it on the line like I did in the "beginning of time" thread because, as was the case there, I cannot possibly explain this any more clearly, so I don't know whose failing it is if you still don't understand after I do, maybe just mine, but it doesn't matter because we're both up you-know-what creek without a paddle here. A being who, as a necessary part of being unlimited and all-encompassing, does not move through time like we do, stuck in a present like us, will not be subject to any past/present/future breakdown from His own point of view. That doesn't mean, however, that no action performed by this Being within the universe He made and its timeflow cannot--indeed, should not, for the sake of our clarity--be described using temporal measurement, starting at the beginning of the event in question and ending at when the event stops occurring. I used the parting of the Red Sea as an example: just because from God's point of view it didn't all last the theoretical 2 hour, 37 minute (or however long you imagine it lasted, pick a number) duration, with him stuck in the present with the Israelites at that moment, experiencing it second-by-second along with them, does not cancel out the fact that for us, the way we see it, since we are not omnitemporal, the whole thing still lasted exactly 2 hours and 37 minutes, since it happened inside an actual timeflow. God was causing it from outside that timeflow, yes, but the effect, the action itself happened in time, didn't it?

    It's like if you're writing a story, you're not part of the chronology of the events in the plot, nor the amount of time it takes to read it. You're not any of those things, you're the author. When you're writing, you're operating from outside of the story's timeflow, in another realm altogether. (Where the analogy breaks down is that you're operating from a timeflow of your own whereas God is not; don't let that confuse you. If it does, just forget the analogy altogether. And don't try to pick it apart for flaws and make straw men.)

  6. #21
    Veteran Member sumuque's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    word used in Quran for 7 days doesn't mean 7 24hr days literally. It means "period of time." Reference of 7 days is for humans and stages of creation of and in the universe(s).
    Well Muhammad thought they were !!

    "The Book Giving Description of the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell (Kitab Sifat Al-Qiyamah wa'l Janna wa'n-Nar)
    Muslim :: Book 39 : Hadith 6707

    Abu Haraira reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) took hold of my hands and said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and lie caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace be upon him) after 'Asr on Friday;the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i. e. between afternoon and night.
    "
    So, too, the creeds of man: the one prevails
    Until the other comes; and this one fails
    When that one triumphs; ay, the lonesome world
    Will always want the latest fairy tales.
    Al-Ma'arri

  7. #22

    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    I'm talking about the word used in Quran and its meaning, not what it is said in a hadith.

    As for the hadith, I don't exactly subscribe to that hadith, you can ask br Hlatif or Ishan for its context.



  8. #23
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    naming the days of creation with names that we know does not necessarily mean that the days are our days. This is because the names of days are concepts that can be applied to any other entity that shares the same concept. As for Asr, it basically means the end of the day.

    Take care all

    Hussein
    To consider that our logic is logical all the time is actually illogical. To consider that our understanding of the text is correct all the time is also illogical.

  9. #24
    Veteran Member sumuque's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by hlatif View Post
    naming the days of creation with names that we know does not necessarily mean that the days are our days. This is because the names of days are concepts that can be applied to any other entity that shares the same concept. As for Asr, it basically means the end of the day.

    Take care all

    Hussein
    It seems your own opinion, & accepted, however, if we look Hadith carefully its quite clear in its context and with the light of Quranic verses on this issue.

    Telling that Allah finished a specific task on a certain day is easy enough to understand, what best understanding of Quranic verses you want if you are a Muslim then the one provided by Muhammad himself !

    I'm talking about the word used in Quran and its meaning, not what it is said in a hadith.
    Chuck

    Which word ? Like this one "ayyamin" Please tell us the meaning of this word ..its the plural of "ي و م"
    So, too, the creeds of man: the one prevails
    Until the other comes; and this one fails
    When that one triumphs; ay, the lonesome world
    Will always want the latest fairy tales.
    Al-Ma'arri

  10. #25
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    It seems your own opinion, & accepted, however, if we look Hadith carefully its quite clear in its context and with the light of Quranic verses on this issue.

    Telling that Allah finished a specific task on a certain day is easy enough to understand, what best understanding of Quranic verses you want if you are a Muslim then the one provided by Muhammad himself !
    Muslim scholars, who knew arabic better than your or me, and who knew the context of this hadeeth, understood it as I did.

    I break it to you:
    The names of the day of the week in Arabic are like this:
    Day 1
    Day 2
    day 3
    day 4
    day 5
    day of gathering
    day of rest.

    So you can apply them anywhere and anytime that applies

    As for ASR, it means: the last juice of an entity.

    So, when you apply it to a day, it means towards the end of the day.

    This is the context of the hadeeth and how it is understood.

    Take care

    Hussein
    To consider that our logic is logical all the time is actually illogical. To consider that our understanding of the text is correct all the time is also illogical.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by sumuque View Post
    It seems your own opinion, & accepted, however, if we look Hadith carefully its quite clear in its context and with the light of Quranic verses on this issue.
    Can you explain this high-lighted portion?
    "Those who deny the strength of truth,
    God does not give them courage." - Bulleh Shah

  12. #27
    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by hlatif View Post
    naming the days of creation with names that we know does not necessarily mean that the days are our days. This is because the names of days are concepts that can be applied to any other entity that shares the same concept.
    Personally, any normal critical thinking human would think its far fetched and utter b... where is your rational mind?

    Sorry, I normally don't get so personal but this is really what I think. If anything doesnt mean anything anymore.. why have a discussion at all. God did not create the world in 7 days.. its means something totally different and something we don't know.

    Why do I even bother to mention this, its totally useless against people who think like this
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

  13. #28
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Personally, any normal critical thinking human would think its far fetched and utter b... where is your rational mind?
    And you would be the exemplar of "critical thinking human?" I don't appreciate your condensation. Have you ever thought maybe your rational mind isn't quite equipped with handling certain issues?
    Sorry, I normally don't get so personal but this is really what I think.
    Think what you want to think but attacking another member because you think you're superior to them, intellectually, or otherwise is not excusable.
    If anything doesnt mean anything anymore.. why have a discussion at all.
    Language is not one-dimensional but if you wish to see it that way that's your prerogative.
    God did not create the world in 7 days.
    You sound so sure. First of all it has been explained that days has many definitions. Anything from when there is natural light outside to period of time of varying degrees. In the aforementioned hadith, Hussein explained, that in Arabic the days are named by number not by names of gods or planets. So the Prophet (pbuh) did not say "Monday" he said "Second day." For example, the trees were created on the "Second day." Day can be an epoch and refer to stages. So the second stage of the earth was the greenery etc... It doesn't matter if you accept this ahadith or not and I am not defending it. I am clarifying a point that you seem unable to grasp and because of this you lash out at others. You are told that God created the world order including time that regulates it. It is His design yet you can accept that an want to project this simplistic idea that He is constrained by it because "poof" He should create everything that way. Well He didn't and He chose it to be as it is. There is a process to things and I have noted that the Qur'an mentions this. It even relates the evolution of revelation to the progress and development of life and the natural order.
    Why do I even bother to mention this, its totally useless against people who think like this
    Maybe you're bored, I don't know. The point is your frustration is unwarranted. I am not sure you are willing to accept anything beyond your own thinking, which seem to consist of some elitist, supremacist ideas. Take it easy and relax a little and step away from such a position because sometimes that helps us see that our sight is not the only way to see something.

  14. #29
    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Sorry hlatif is a nice intelligent man, however that quote.. it is nonsensical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I am not sure you are willing to accept anything beyond your own thinking, which seem to consist of some elitist, supremacist ideas. Take it easy and relax a little and step away from such a position because sometimes that helps us see that our sight is not the only way to see something.
    If you would only do the same
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

  15. #30

    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Sorry hlatif is a nice intelligent man, however that quote.. it is nonsensical.
    What it is nonsensical? He is telling exactly like it means.

    There is no such thing as "Saturday" in Arabic. If you want a literal translation of the hadith it would mean "first epoch" instead of "Saturday".



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