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God created the world in 7 days
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Thread: God created the world in 7 days

  1. #1
    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman View Post
    God never does anything before, during, or after any other thing He does since He is not in time flow in a past/present/future division with the rest of us but omnitemporal.
    If God created the world in seven days, doesnt that mean he is in the time flow aswell?
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by MF View Post
    If God created the world in seven days, doesnt that mean he is in the time flow aswell?
    I don't remember saying that He did, and even if you hold to the literalist school of thought on the matter you don't even have the number right. But I think I've said all I have to say to you about that before in our private message exchange on evolution and I'm not going to say any more here publicly because the 744,289,255,811,309,425,220 existing threads on these issues are more than enough for me. I'm sure it won't be enough for others and this thread will already be popping with more and more of the Eternal Cycle before long (quite possibly before I've posted this) but it is for me.

    Suffice to say, omnitemporality covers all the bases in terms of God's actions simply by virtue of what it is in the first place. Any action that an omnitemporal entity performs may be said to last a certain amount of time but that just measures the elapsed quantity of time between the beginning of the duration of effects constituting what's actually happening and the end of those effects. Take, for example, the parting of the Red Sea: it must have taken a certain amount of time from our perspective, in terms of what we would have observed and how we would have communicated it. Suppose it lasted for a duration of two hours and thirty-seven minutes: that doesn't necessitate that God was stuck in the present with us and it was taking just as long for Him from His point of view. All the same, it would be pointless of us to hold off on using our own standard units of temporal measurements on events caused by God in our universe just because of that, since we are not omnitemporal.

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    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman View Post
    Suffice to say, omnitemporality covers all the bases in terms of God's actions simply by virtue of what it is in the first place. Any action that an omnitemporal entity performs may be said to last a certain amount of time but that just measures the elapsed quantity of time between the beginning of the duration of effects constituting what's actually happening and the end of those effects. Take, for example, the parting of the Red Sea: it must have taken a certain amount of time from our perspective, in terms of what we would have observed and how we would have communicated it. Suppose it lasted for a duration of two hours and thirty-seven minutes: that doesn't necessitate that God was stuck in the present with us and it was taking just as long for Him from His point of view. All the same, it would be pointless of us to hold off on using our own standard units of temporal measurements on events caused by God in our universe just because of that, since we are not omnitemporal.
    I still don't understand, why does it take time to do something for him if he is outside of the realm of time. Would it suffice to say you simply don't understand? no logical explanation?
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by MF View Post
    I still don't understand, why does it take time to do something for him if he is outside of the realm of time. Would it suffice to say you simply don't understand? no logical explanation?
    Ummm, reminds of "it is pointless to ask about time before big bang".



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    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Ummm, reminds of "it is pointless to ask about time before big bang".
    but thats not an answer to the question.
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    why does it take time to do something for him if he is outside of the realm of time.
    It doesn't take Him time, it's the natural process that He wills. Throughout the Qur'an it mentions the natural growth and coming into-being process, which does not affect God but obviously creation. I think you're working from the "poof" paradigm.

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    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    It doesn't take Him time, it's the natural process that He wills. Throughout the Qur'an it mentions the natural growth and coming into-being process, which does not affect God but obviously creation. I think you're working from the "poof" paradigm.
    This means that also God is affected by the laws of nature. He could have created the heaven in a split second, if only nature was a little bit faster. It might even be better to believe that God took his time to create something he liked, rather than to believe he was delayed by nature (that he created himself). In both ways time affected the creation of the earth. Since God was the creator, time affected God.
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by MF View Post
    but thats not an answer to the question.
    I wasn't answering your question, just reminding and referencing.



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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    MF,
    This means that also God is affected by the laws of nature.
    I think this is a matter of understanding. You're not grasping it.
    He could have created the heaven in a split second, if only nature was a little bit faster.
    What? He could have done anything but didn't and the result is what it is.
    It might even be better to believe that God took his time to create something he liked, rather than to believe he was delayed by nature (that he created himself).
    Is this an arguement that you've created just to rebut it because I'm not sure where you're coming up with this.
    In both ways time affected the creation of the earth. Since God was the creator, time affected God.
    Like I said before taking what someone said then making it something else then arguing that point really is pointless. I assert that you maybe working under the assumption that because God does something it has to be to your liking of split-second action. You seem to always put yourself from the perspective of god and respond on that basis.

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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Quote Originally Posted by MF View Post
    If God created the world in seven days, doesnt that mean he is in the time flow aswell?
    In surah Miraaj, the various stages of time are referred to. For example, the angels are said to ascend to the Lord on a scale of time that is long for men. The reason Allah refers to seven days is to illustrate the fact that God has not created this world haphazardly and everything has an appointed time. Everything is dictated by wisdom, including the appointed Day of Judgement.
    "Those who deny the strength of truth,
    God does not give them courage." - Bulleh Shah

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    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    I feel like beating a dead horse, but to be honest its a question from a friend of mine.. and I can't give him a good answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    It doesn't take Him time, it's the natural process that He wills.
    Yes however, its not a natural process to pop a sea into existence in one day, if its a natural process.. a forest in one day for example? the natural process of a forest is not in one day. It raises the question of whether the seven days of creation were literal days or symbolic. So my friend naturally says that the creation is 7 days is not a natural process. This is beside the point though because the initial question is how can he be outside of time if the creation took seven days.. its not answered yet. Did he started it off timeless or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I think this is a matter of understanding. You're not grasping it.
    I'm willing to try you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by ihsan View Post
    For example, the angels are said to ascend to the Lord on a scale of time that is long for men.
    Does that mean angels are in the time flow aswell?

    Quote Originally Posted by ihsan View Post
    The reason Allah refers to seven days is to illustrate the fact that God has not created this world haphazardly and everything has an appointed time.
    Are you saying the 7 days should not be taken litterary? its only for illustration? what was it in reality then? This is beside the point also but I wonder if its a metaphor, and we take a look at how long it really took for planets to form.. this even took a longer time. How is that an explanation for God beeing outside of the time flow?
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Does that mean angels are in the time flow aswell?
    According to my understanding, absolutely, but operate on a different scale of time.

    From Allah, the Lord of the ways of Ascent.
    To Him ascend the angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
    Therefore endure with a goodly patience.
    Surely they think it to be far off,
    And We see it nigh.
    The conclusion of the verses in this particular chapter are quite interesting as it relates to perspective.

    Are you saying the 7 days should not be taken litterary? its only for illustration? what was it in reality then? This is beside the point also but I wonder if its a metaphor, and we take a look at how long it really took for planets to form.. this even took a longer time. How is that an explanation for God beeing outside of the time flow?
    No, they should be taken as literal, but the scale of that time is not seven days from our frame of reference point. As far as how long it actually took from the perspective of man, that is beyond the scope of the Quran as a book of guidance. The Quran is demonstrating that everything has been created according to wisdom and a definitive purpose. God did not create things haphazardly.
    "Those who deny the strength of truth,
    God does not give them courage." - Bulleh Shah

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    Veteran Member sumuque's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    Does Allah need time to make a decision ?

    According to Muslim apologies, Allah do all things simultaneously ! He Punish and reward at the same time, He say Yes and No at the same time, He accepts or reject Prayers at the same time, because He is outside the time and space and not in Time flow !!
    So, too, the creeds of man: the one prevails
    Until the other comes; and this one fails
    When that one triumphs; ay, the lonesome world
    Will always want the latest fairy tales.
    Al-Ma'arri

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    I am around... Sadiq_b's Avatar
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    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    MF it would help, if you could post the relevant Quranic verse on which you are basing your question. I say that because you are asking something at random, and I would like to know what was the context.
    [Offtopic] I spend my time on my Oracle Forums and my General Forums [/Offtopic]

    [Ontopic] To compare translations of the Quran and read Tafsir Jalalayn, refer Quran.com [/Ontopic]

  15. #15

    Default Re: God created the world in 7 days

    I don't see a problem with saying that God exists both within and outside time. Is that somehow objectionable?
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