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Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"
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Thread: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

  1. #1

    Default Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

    I am curious about the opinons of our Sunni brethren about the saying attributed to Rasulallah about Ahlaybait and its importance.

    There is also a verse in Bible Gen 18:20 which says about Hazrat Ishmael "12 Princes shall he beget and we will make him a great nation". The 12 Princes obviously refer to the 12 Imams and nothing else. Bible even talks about the great sacrifice near the river Euphrates which refers to Karbala!
    Jer 46:10

    The messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to BOTH of them you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The Merciful has informed me that These two shall not separate from each other till they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

    Sunni references:

    1. Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 662-663,328, report of 30+ companions, with reference to several chains of transmitters.
    2. al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, pp 109,110,148,533 who wrote this tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim).
    3. Sunan, by Daarami, v2, p432
    4. Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, pp 14,17,26,59, v4, pp 366,370-372, v5, pp 182,189,350,366,419
    5. Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p585, Tradition #990
    6. al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 21,30
    7. al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p230
    8. al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, v3, pp 62-63,137
    9. Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Chapter al-Iti'sam bi Habl Allah, v1, p44.
    10. Tafsir Ibn Kathir (complete version), v4, p113, under commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran (four traditions)
    11. al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, p194, Pub. by Dar Isadder, Lebanon.
    12. al-Jami' al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti, v1, p353, and also in v2
    13. Majma' al-Zawa'id, al-Haythami, v9, p163
    14. al-Fateh al-Kabir, al-Binhani, v1, p451
    15. Usdul Ghabah fi Ma'rifat al-Sahaba, Ibn al-Athir, v2, p12
    16. Jami' al-Usul, Ibn al-Athir, v1, p187
    17. History of Ibn Asakir, v5, p436
    18. al-Taj al-Jami' Lil Usul, v3, p308
    19. al-Durr al-Manthoor, al-Hafidh al-Suyuti, v2, p60
    20. Yanabi al-Mawaddah, al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, pp 38,183
    21. Abaqat al-Anwar, v1, p16

    ... and many more ...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

    Excerpt from the understanding Islam web site

    The phrase "" (Ahl al-Bayet) or "" (Ahlak), in the classical Arabic language, as well as in the Qur'an, just like the general usage of the phrase "" (Ahl e Khaana) in the Urdu language, is used as a polite and respectful reference to the wife/wives of a person. As an expansion of this connotation, sometimes the phrase is also used to refer to the members of one's household.

    However, it is clear that the Qur'an has used this phrase to refer to one's wife/wives. The Qur'an has used this phrase at two instances. In Surah Hu'd 11: 73, the phrase has been used for Sarah (ra), the wife of Abraham (pbuh). While in Surah Al-Hujraat 33: 33, it has been used to address the wives of the Prophet (pbuh). At both these instances, the context of the related verses clearly points to the fact that the reference of this phrase is toward the wife/wives of the two prophets of God.

    The phrase Ahl al-Bayet is not used in the Arabic language for the Ummah or the following of a person. Nevertheless, the word "" (Aal) as in "" has also been used to imply the followers of a person, besides the obvious connotation of one's children, as is clear from the phrase "Aal-e-Fir`aun" itself (Al-Baqarah 2: 49, 50, Aal Imraan 3: 11, Al-Aa`raaf 7: 130, 141, Al-Anfaal 8: 52, 54 etc.), as the Pharaoh referred to in this verse did not have any biological children.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

    Excerpt from Understanding Islam web site

    Q :I am wondering if you are aware of the famous hadith al-thaqalyn (two weighty things), which the Prophet (saawaws) said he left for us on his last pilgrimage. He clearly and specifically said "Qur'an and Ahlul Bait." He NEVER said Qur'an and Sunnah. This hadith is present in ONLY ONE book (al-Mustadrak of al-Hakim), has ONLY ONE narrator and is regarded as WEAK by the criteria of Bukhari and Muslim. It is NOT present in ANY of the Sahih Sittah.


    I do not base my basic beliefs on 'Hadith'.

    In case you believe that the Qur'an has stipulated the 'Ahl al-bayet' to be a source of Islam, please do let me know.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

    Excerpt from the Understanding Islam web site

    Q: I am wondering if you are aware of the famous hadith al-thaqalyn (two weighty things), which the Prophet (saawaws) said he left for us on his last pilgrimage. He clearly and specifically said "Qur'an and Ahlul Bait." He NEVER said Qur'an and Sunnah.

    The above statements clearly imply the fact that the opinion, which holds the 'Ahl al-Bayet' to be a source of Islam is not based on the Qur'an, but tries to find support from narratives ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) - i.e. Hadith. Thus, it would seem pertinent that the particular narrative ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh), termed as 'Hadith al-thaqalayn' by our 'neutral' friend should be briefly analyzed, before any decisions are derived from it.

    In the more accepted compilations of narratives ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh), the 'Hadith al-Thaqalayn' has been reported by Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ahmad Ibn Hanbal and Daarimiy. Another important aspect to note about the 'Hadith al-Thaqalayn' is that it has been narrated in two different versions. In one of these versions, the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said:

    'I am going to leave in you two heavy burdens[1]. The first of them is the Book of Allah in it is the true guidance and the light. Therefore, hold fast to it'. Then he [i.e. the Prophet (pbuh)] prompted and induced the Muslims to adhere to the Book of God. Then he said: 'And my household. I remind you of God in matters relating to my household. I remind you of God in matters relating to my household. I remind you of God in matters relating to my household[2].'

    This version has been reported (with very minor variations, if any) by Muslim, Ahmad ibn Hanbal and Daarimiy. An important thing to note about the words ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) in this version is that it does not place the 'Ahl al-Bayet' at the level of being a source of Islam. It only directs the Muslims to refrain from adopting an uncalled for attitude toward them. Obviously, the words: "I remind you of God, in matters relating to my household", can in no way be construed to imply that the Prophet intended to give his household the position of the source of Islam, parallel to that of the Qur'an. Thus, this version, obviously, is not of much use for those who would like to establish that the two sources of Islam are the Qur'an and the 'Ahl al-Bayet'.

    In the second version of the 'Hadith al-Thaqalayn', the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said:

    I have left in you something, which if you strictly adhere to, you shall never go astray - The book of God and my progeny - i.e. my Ahl al-Bayet.

    This version, with some variation has been narrated by Tirmidhi and Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Following are the chain of narrators of this version of the narrative:

    The first chain of narrators, as reported by Tirmidhi, includes Nasr ibn Abd al-Rahmaan al-Koofi - Zayed ibn al-Hasan al-Anmaatiy - Ja`fer ibn Mohammed - Mohammed ibn Ali ibn Hussain...

    The second person in the chain is Zayed ibn al-Hasan. Zahabiy in his book "Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal" has quoted Abu Haatim as saying that Zayed is 'Munkir al-Hadith' - i.e. Zayed narrates repudiated and abominable narratives. Ibn Hajar has considered him to be Dha`eef - i.e. a weak or an unreliable narrator (Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb). Even Tirmidhi, who has reported the said narrative, does not consider it to be 'Sahih'. On the contrary, Tirmidhi, in his comments says that this narrative is 'Hasan' (which is less than 'Sahih') and is Ghareeb - i.e. strange in its content and not widely recognized.

    The second chain of narrators, as reported in Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal is: Al-Aswad ibn `aamir - Shareek ibn Abd Allah ibn Abi Shareek - Al-Rakeen ibn al-Rabiy` -- Al-Qaasim ibn Hassaan - Zayed ibn Thaabit...

    The second person in this chain is Shareek ibn Abd Allah ibn Abi Shareek. Yahya ibn Sa`eed has considered him 'extremely unreliable' (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Mohammed ibn Yahya says that his father said: 'I have noticed confusion in Shareek's principles' (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Abd al-Jabbaar ibn Mohammed says that once he asked Yahya ibn Sa`eed whether Shareek had become confused in his last days, to which Yahya ibn Sa`eed replied: "He (i.e. Shareek) was always confused" (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Ibn al-Mubaarak says: 'Narratives of Shareek are worthless' (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Juzjaaniy says: '[Shareek had a] faulty memory, [was] confused [in] narrating, [was] prejudiced' (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Ibraheem ibn Sa`eed al-Jauhariy says: 'Shareek committed mistakes in four hundred narratives' (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Ibn Mu`een says: When Shareek's narratives contradict with someone else's, the other person is preferable to me' (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal).

    The fourth person in this chain is Al-Qaasim ibn Hassaan. Bukhari says: 'His narratives are Munkar (i.e. repudiated and abominable) and nothing is known about him' (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Ibn al-Qattaan says: 'nothing is known about him' (Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb).

    The third chain of narrators as reported in Tirmidhi is: Ali ibn al-Munzir al-Koofiy - Mohammed ibn Fudhayl - Al-A`mash - `Atiyyah - Abu Sa`eed.

    The first and the second narrator in this chain i.e. Ali ibn al-Munzir al-Koofiy and Mohammed ibn Fudhayl are both known to be Shi`ahs (i.e. Shiites). It is an established principle of most of the scholars of Hadith that if the content of a narrative is peculiar to a particular school of thought (as is the case in this narrative), then such a narrative would not be acceptable, if it is narrated by a person who ascribes to such a school (Al-Kifaayah fi `ilm al-Riwaayah). Besides this, Mohammed ibn Fudhayl is also criticized by Ibn al-Mubarak as not being liked by his contemporaries. (Dhu`afaa al-`Uqayliy). Moreover, Mohammed ibn Sa`d has said that 'his narratives are not considered by many to evidence a true saying of the Prophet (pbuh)' (Siyar A`laam al-Nubalaa).

    The fourth narrator in this chain is `Atiyyah ibn Sa`d. Yahya ibn Mu`een considers him to be dha`eef - i.e. unreliable (Al-Kaamil fi al-Dhu`afaa). Ahmad ibn Hanbal says that he incorrectly ascribes narratives that he hears from al-Kalabiy to Abu Sa`eed (Al-Kaamil fi al-Dhu`afaa). The same thing is reported by Ibn Hibbaan (Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb). Ahmad ibn Hanbal says that Sufiyaan al-Thauriy considered him unreliable (Al-Kaamil fi al-Dhu`afaa). Ibn Hajar says that he commits a lot of mistakes (Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb). Al-Nasaaiy and ibn Hibbaan consider him to be unreliable (Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb). Abu Dawood says: 'He cannot be trusted' (Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb).

    Besides these three chains, all other chains of narration of this version of the narrative include one or more of those narrators who have been strongly criticized by scholars of Hadith (cited above).

    In view of the cited criticism on the chain of narrators of this narrative, it is obvious that no one can safely ascribe this saying to the Prophet (pbuh). It is, therefore, very respectfully submitted to our 'neutral' friend to kindly provide the chain of narrators, which in his opinion is clear of criticism and on the basis of which, this narrative can safely be ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh).

  5. #5

    Default Re: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

    Salaam alaikum,
    dear nahjul can u debate on ayath-e-tatheer and the other ayath which is misquoted that h.z ali gave zakat while he was in ruku, can ya .
    i am also from a shia back ground my father and mother are shia, but you should try to look beyond your ideologies and beliefs.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

    Your article is really great and I truly enjoyed reading it.
    Thanks for share.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

    JulietteKlonk is a bot?

  8. #8
    Administrator Ratatosk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"


  9. #9
    Veteran Member Nawawi619's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

    As Salamu Alaykum

    Attached is the polymath and mujtahid Imam Suyuti's work on the Ahlu Bayt which goes over several hadith and discussion of the Book of Allah and Ahlu Bayt. Shaykh Yahya an-Ninowy who is a specialist in Hadith went over this text in my city last year at a deen intensive and the discussion of weak and sound hadith came into it. He did say there are weak traditions ascribing this saying but there are also other chains of transmission and other sound hadith that strengthen it. In the science of hadith, when there are alternative strong chains of hadith that report the same saying or matter, the weak hadith in question would be raised in status (as in text). Also, just because one finds one weak transmission of hadith does not make the hadith false or fabricated.

    So in other words, it can be ascribed to the Prophet salla llahu alayhi wa sallam due to the factors mentioned by Shaykh Ninowy. For his qualifications as a Hadith specialist go to his bio page http://www.alhaqq.net/Ninowy.html
    Attached Files Attached Files
    The Prophet Muhammad (Salla Llahu alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) said, “Verily Allah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people but He takes away knowledge by taking away the scholars, so that when He leaves no learned person, people appoint ignorant as their leaders. They are asked to deliver religious verdicts and they deliver them without knowledge, they go astray, and lead others astray.” [Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim]

  10. #10

    Default Re: Rasullalah's quote "Quran and Ahlaybait"

    brother, in islam

    the word 'ahlu lbayt' consists of all who are the contents that makes BAIT?

    (2:256) : now whoever rejects taghut and believes in Allah has taken a firm support that never gives way.

    now i am a muslim and u too, what the above verse meant to Me and u and ahl al bayt? is it for them not to follow that verse because they are ahl bayt and me poor person because of not being (as now ahlbayt for particular sects) not of their sects being considered as not taking those two things.

    and to whatsoever you are my brother in islam and always i shall be Inshaa Allah.

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