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Thread: Sex with non-muslims

  1. #1
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    Default Sex with non-muslims

    Hi all.
    I've read in a couple of places that muslim men can have sex with non-muslim women out of marrige, just not muslim women.

    for one thing that seems to go against the spirit of modesty in islam and for another it just doesn't seem too right.

    what does everyone here think.
    this is the article that actually prompted this thread but there was atleast another one i can't seem to find.
    http://www.islamreview.com/articles/sexinislam.shtml

  2. #2
    Administrator Ratatosk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Salam,

    Muslims can not have sex outside of marriage.

    The only thing one might be able to construe as any kind of exception would be if a muslim owns a slave. Which is, I hope you agree, rather.., hmm.., rare these days. And even then, maybe.

    Regards,
    think

  3. #3
    Veteran Member junaid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by tanis View Post
    I've read in a couple of places that muslim men can have sex with non-muslim women out of marrige, just not muslim women.
    What is the difference between Muslim and non-Muslim women?

    Question: In the age of slavery, were Muslim women ever taken as slaves by other Muslims?
    There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic ~ Blessed Mother Teresa

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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Good Lord, that is the stupidest article I've seen this week. Still, it's heartening to know that those who are against Islam must resort to very poor research and much bias to make their "point".
    The image-obsessed, bloodthirsty, sensationalistic world outside your window is the real madhouse.

    www.islamic-relief.com

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Assalam o alaikum

    Welcome to the forum, May Allah make us able ot understand His guidance and act upon.

    Quran says

    Forbidden to you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters and your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters and your sister's daughters, your milk-mothers, your milk-sisters, the mothers of your wives, and the stepdaughters - who are your foster-children, born of your those wives with whom you have made sex; but the born of those wives whom you give divorce without having sex then there will be no blame upon you (if you marry their daughters).

    It is also forbidden for you to take the wives of the sons who have sprung from your loins and to take two sisters together in marriage, although what is past is past. Surely Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate. - (4:23)

    And also forbidden to you are all married women (muhsanat) except those women whom your right hands have come to possess (as a result of war). This is Allah's decree and it is binding upon you. But it is lawful for you to seek out all women except these, offering them your wealth and the protection of wedlock rather than using them for the unfettered satisfaction of lust. - (4:24)

    Allah even not like to create such kind of environment that lead you to fornication, Allah says

    And do not even draw to things shameful - be they open or secret; - (6-151)

    Do not even go near fornication for it is a very indecent flung and a very evil way. - (17:32)

    regards

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    salaam all,

    Muslim scholars are in agreement that sex beyond mariage or Mulk Yameen is forbidden. As for the mulk yameen, they are also mainly in agreement that sex with other than Muslim or Christian or Jewish slave woman is also forbidden. The rule is that what is forbidden in marriage is also forbidden in Mulk Yameen.

    Hussein
    Last edited by hlatif; 17th September 2008 at 13:49.
    To consider that our logic is logical all the time is actually illogical. To consider that our understanding of the text is correct all the time is also illogical.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by khalid zaheer View Post
    Assalam o alaikum

    Welcome to the forum, May Allah make us able ot understand His guidance and act upon.

    Quran says

    Forbidden to you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters and your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters and your sister's daughters, your milk-mothers, your milk-sisters, the mothers of your wives, and the stepdaughters - who are your foster-children, born of your those wives with whom you have made sex; but the born of those wives whom you give divorce without having sex then there will be no blame upon you (if you marry their daughters).

    It is also forbidden for you to take the wives of the sons who have sprung from your loins and to take two sisters together in marriage, although what is past is past. Surely Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate. - (4:23)

    And also forbidden to you are all married women (muhsanat) except those women whom your right hands have come to possess (as a result of war). This is Allah's decree and it is binding upon you. But it is lawful for you to seek out all women except these, offering them your wealth and the protection of wedlock rather than using them for the unfettered satisfaction of lust. - (4:24)

    Allah even not like to create such kind of environment that lead you to fornication, Allah says

    And do not even draw to things shameful - be they open or secret; - (6-151)

    Do not even go near fornication for it is a very indecent flung and a very evil way. - (17:32)

    regards


    thank you so much.
    its good to know that i islam does not allow something as hypocritical as that.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Assalam o alaikum

    As the matter of

    except those women whom your right hands have come
    to possess (as a result of war)

    there are some rules and regulation

    Islam does not permit soldiers of the Islamic army to have sexual relations with women they capture in war. Islamic Law requires that such women should first be handed over to the government, which then has the right to decide what should be done with them. It may either set them free unconditionally, release them on payment of ransom, exchange them for Muslim prisoners of war held by the enemy or distribute them among the soldiers. A soldier may have sexual relations only with that woman who has been entrusted to him by the government.

    Only that person to whom a female captive has been entrusted has the right to have sexual relations with her. Any child born to her will be regarded as the legitimate child of her master, and will be entitled to all the rights laid down by the Law for one's issue. Moreover, once such a woman has given birth to a child she may not be sold to anyone, and on the death of her master she automatically becomes a free person.

    If the master allows the woman to marry someone else he ceases to have the right to sexual relations with her but retains the right to have her serve him in other ways.


    And about the chaste non-muslim women Quran says

    This day all good things have been made lawful to you. The food of the People of the Book is permitted to you, and your food is permitted to them. And permitted to you are chaste women, be they either from among the believers or from among those who have received the Book before you, provided you become their protectors in wedlock after paying them their bridal-due, rather than go around committing fornication and taking them as secret-companions. The work of he who refuses to follow the way of faith will go waste, and he will be among the utter losers in the Hereafter. (5:5)

    regards

  9. #9
    Veteran Member junaid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    The Great Theft: Wrestling Islam from the Extremists

    Khaled Abou El Fadl

    p. 255 - 256

    Shaykh Saleh al Fawzan, a Saudi jurist, issued a fatwa --> slavery lawful in Islam, ought to be legalized in Saudi Arabia

    He accused Muslim scholars who condemned and outlawed slavery of being ignorant and infidels............

    The position of slavery has been resolved for most of the twentieth century........most Muslim jurists had concluded slavery is inconsistent eith Quranic morality and ethical objectives of the Islamic faith. Prohibition of slavery was considered a closed matter.......

    The reinstitution of slavery has nothing to do with Islam.... but in the puritan mind, this is a slap in the West's face.

    ***********

    PS: This book is worth investing one's time in.
    There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic ~ Blessed Mother Teresa

  10. #10
    Administrator Ratatosk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    [OFF TOPIC]
    Salam Junaid,

    Thank you for the reading recommendation.

    It's an interesting concept, for sure; using scripture to justify how one can arrive at an inferior morality. Coupled with studies and research findings that seem to suggest societies with religious values have higher rates of murder, suicide and violence than outspokenly secular societies, one can see that this might be an issue worth pursuing. Perhaps fuel and fodder for a new thread?

    Regards,
    [/OFF TOPIC]
    think

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Who would get married if one could have sexual relations with non-Muslims outside of marriage? I wouldn't....
    "Those who deny the strength of truth,
    God does not give them courage." - Bulleh Shah

  12. #12
    Administrator Ratatosk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Salam,

    Somehow, I don't see marriage as simply a sex license.

    Regards,
    think

  13. #13
    Veteran Member junaid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatosk View Post
    [OFF TOPIC] Thank you for the reading recommendation. [/OFF TOPIC]
    I actually went on a reading spree. I started off with as you'd know Ayan Hirsi Ali's 'Infidel', moving on to the tamer yet controversial Irshad Manji's 'Trouble with Islam Today', and then to the relatively mainstream yet sideline Tarek Fatah's 'Chasing the Mirage' and finally the mainstream yet reform minded Khaled Abou El Fadel's book.

    Amongst all the four books, the last one feels as if authority flows from it. A gentleman trained in Classical texts with a library boasting 50,000 ancient Muslim texts, it is quite impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatosk View Post
    [OFF TOPIC] It's an interesting concept, for sure; using scripture to justify how one can arrive at an inferior morality. [/OFF TOPIC]
    Prof Abou Fadel says that historically the jursist no matter which madhab they followed, would unitedly condemn offshoot movements that were of puritan nature. So the wise elders wrote extensively against the puritan Abdel Wahab. They felt his movement would die like that of the Kharijites.

    Abdel Wahab's own brother Sulayman and a Maliki jurist Ibn Humayd wrote denouncing Wahab's theology indicating it is against mainstream Islam.

    These books are banned in Saudi Arabia.

    Likewise in the 1980s Al Ghazzali himself a Salaffiya wrote a book on the Salaffiyya claiming they had gone against the spirit of their forefathers Rashid Rida and Mohammad Abduh.

    Sadly, the wise elders are a rare commodity these days. In fact according to Professor Abou Fadel, the institutions that would produce excellent jurists have deteriorated and nationalized or have a huge government control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatosk View Post
    [OFF TOPIC] Coupled with studies and research findings that seem to suggest societies with religious values have higher rates of murder, suicide and violence than outspokenly secular societies, one can see that this might be an issue worth pursuing. Perhaps fuel and fodder for a new thread? [/OFF TOPIC]
    Recently, in Pakistan 5 women were supposedly buried alive and the minister in the Parliamnet smugly claimed well this is our tradition. No remorse, no nothing. I dont even know whether he was held accountable.

    The attitude of people is 'Insha Allah' things will become alright rather than taking an active role in sorting out social ills.

    The NGOs, well they are portrayed as Western agents.
    There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic ~ Blessed Mother Teresa

  14. #14
    Mr Electron Kabeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Salaams Ishan,
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatosk View Post
    Somehow, I don't see marriage as simply a sex license.
    Yes like Rattatosk says, is this how you view it?

    Peace.
    “None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.”

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Sex with non-muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Kabeer View Post
    Salaams Ishan,

    Yes like Rattatosk says, is this how you view it?

    Peace.
    Having a girl-friend isn't simply a sex-license either, but it radically alters the legal implications of the relationship...
    "Those who deny the strength of truth,
    God does not give them courage." - Bulleh Shah

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