Chechen faithful

[gsr]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2357109.stm
http://www.russiajournal.com/russian/news_40570.html
http://www.russiajournal.com/news/cn...shtml?nd=45282
http://www.islamicawakening.com/print.php?articleID=98
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...9E9D9FCA9B.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2355419.stm

timeline
http://www.mapreport.com/countries/chechnya.html

Yes, many have and are fighting the infidel in Russia. But will the faithful truly stop at just having control of the Chechnya region?

[hasan]

Coincedence, the day a Russian Prime minister (Putin) was to step on Turkish soil after 31 years accompanied with economists, business men, analysts with a number of symposiums held in accordance, agreements lined up , trade opportunities sougth, business horizons ventured, political qaulms to be diffused. An opportunity for the region Asia Europe Balkan economic growth & welfare. A school in Russia is taken over by 20 or so bandits holding 800 or so children hostage, is it chechen freedom fighters or al qaeeda henchman? Why? the benifits to chechnya would have been tremendous, just like Turkey holding sway over part of cyprus is a realised benifit for Russia in their maritime freedom (not well known with readers used to reclining in front of stations that opine,
Murdoch or Fox), the once suspicion of Turkish growing ties to independant Balkan states and accusations within conspicious breath of involvement in Chechnyas uprising is falling away for open discussion and mediatory control. Ok it has only postponed an historical event, but to whos advantage and for what result ? who has their fingers stirring the pot? Who is threaten by it most!

:wall:

[MF]

they are tsjetsjenen and they want to be independant, but they are muslims though.

[Guest]

The scene that school was sickening. Obviously the blame goes to us, but i believe it is always the Americans behind these kind of things. I mean, the people always have their faces covered, dont follow principles of Islam. U know, islam doesnt say cut off the head of an absolutely innocent bystander.

[Porky]

Sheikh Haroon,

"but i believe it is always the Americans behind these kind of things. "

Are you kidding?

You think the Americans had something to do with the Chechyn terrorists at that school?

Please clarify your position on this horrible massacre.

Thanks,
Porky

[Guest]

Peace Porky,

I dont literally mean that it is every single American out to destroy, defame us. I mean, that there is alot going on behind the scenes that is hidden from most people. U shouldnt rely on everything u hear on TV u know, my friend. Thats on both sides by the way, not just the Americans. Amusing how they can have the stupidest people leading their country and still have such incredible "intelligence" as to the goings on in our countries. Amazing indeed.

I'll just make one statement though specially for u Porky. Remember it well!

NEVER EVER believe a single word u read in the newspapers or hear on the news, especially on issues like this. There is no black and white, no Gandalf and Sauron. Good bush versus evil Osama, no it doesnt work like that. Theres a lot of grey area, which doesnt meet the eye. If u use ur brain, u can see missing links in many issues.

[Porky]

Sheikh Haroon,

Yes, I know not to believe everything I read. I know that politics has a lot to do with reporting.

And I agree that we have "the stupidest people" running the country.
I didn't vote for them.

But I have been watching the tv a lot this past weekend. It is very clear to me that those Russian mothers walking to the gravesite are not there to play a hoax on the viewer. They are burying their dead children. You can't make that into anything but what it is.

I used to simpathise with the Chechens. No more. I think they deserve what they get from this. Yes, I know they are fighting for independence. But when people fight for anything by killing children, I no longer feel anything but hate toward them.

Chechnya is a terrorist state.

[Guest]

Hey hey hey, hang on a sec.

This is wat i mean. U are relying on wat u see not what is the truth. I greatly sympathise with those killed, it was great injustice. No muslim would have done that. I think there is more to the "captors" than mere chechans. How do u know they werent under the employment of the Russian government out merely to lower the name of chechnya? No camera went into the school. For all u know, the authorities shot the kids and made it out that the "terrorists" did. How can u be certain that it was CERTAINLY more of those god damned Moslems that did it? Are u not prejudiced now in ur views? How can u assume that it was Chechans who captured the school? They can barely do anything in their own defence, u think they are capable of an offensive like that? One which is definitely gona end in death? Ha! I doubt it. Killing a few kids when their own children are being slaugtered? U think they are gona leave their own country. Such an advanced country as Russia to have such a manoevre carried out by people without homes, families, weapons...? Well if u sincerely believe that, then u reli do believe every lie u hear on TV.

[Porky]

Yes, I know I may be fooled by what I see occasionally. But I don't think so this time. And I don't think it was a set-up by Russians. For what? They already are at war withh Chechnya. They don't need to convince anyone, they have been fighting for years.

It is a shame that the chechens are Muslims. No, it does not further the Muslim cause for some of them to be brutal killers of the innocent. That is not anyones fault but their own for being a)terrorists and b) Muslims.

You see, here in the U.S. we also have terrorists. They happen to be Christians. You may have heard, there have been bombings at clinics which offer abortion. Guess what? They were Christians.

Religion can't be blamed, can it? Sure it can. If your relgious leaders tell you that only you will be smiled upon by God, and all others will go to hell anyway, why not kill them?

I think this Chechen thing should be related to fighting for one's country, not a holy war.

But I also think that religion gets a lot of folks killed. I know Christianity killed lots of people over the milleniums.

You say the Chechens can barely do anything in their own defence, well, did you know that they beat back Russia? True. Every man in Chechnya has a gun, either machine gun or rocket launcher, it is their law. And it is for this reason that Russia could not beat them.

Have you not read about the Chechens who blew up apartment buildings in Russia? By the way, I get some of my info from "The Economist," a well-respected British magazine. I don't just watch tv.

Also, how about the two Muslim women who blew up two planes last week in Russia? Bad, huh? Well, it wasn't a couple of aethiests who did that, it was two religious fanatics, who happened to be Muslims. Muslims need to figure out what it is that makes a few of them nuts. Christians have nuts too, but not nearly as many Christians are terrorists. Tell me that part of the problem is not the religion.

[Guest]

With great sadness i greet thee, Porky,

U see the chaos and hatred violence brings? It will never end, my friend, never until it has consummed us all. See, take these people as an example. The Chechans were oppressed, they hated it, so they oppressed, and now what does it do? More hatred, more oppression. When will this world stop destroying itself? We should live for love not hate. Radicals and extremists in war are born out of hatred. I can tell u, for everyone thinks i am one. I hate those who have oppressed my fellow brothers and sisters so much that the hatred is almost blinding. But, hate does not mean we sink down to their level. The prophet (s.a.w) when he was pelted with stones, and suffered through the day of Ta'if, he called it his most miserable day. Yet, when the Angel Gabriel descended and said, "O prophet if u wish i will destroy these people by pushing the two adjacent mountains into each other." The prophet said "NO." And he lifted his hands and prayed for God to help those people. He said, "Do not destroy them. Their children may yet be believers."

I am often asked the question, "What would u do if Mr Bush came and asked for forgiveness, would u forgive him?" Even though he has caused so much pain to my religion, i everytime answer "Yes" because of what love, mercy and forgiveness can do over blind rage, fury and hatred. May God help us all to love each other...

With tears and a sad smile...

Haroon

[mule]

I was reading Corrie Ten boom and she was saying that after ww2 the people that held on to their bitterness and hate over what evil was done to them were unable to live normal lives. They were held bondage to these emotions and were cripled by the hate they felt. It was the ones that forgave that were able to live normal lives. That is what she said, anyways.

[Ron]

Salam All,

Another tragedy in the midst of human existence. It seems people live to kill and this is a sad commentary upon us. Dear Porky there is no reason for you to fall into the trap of feeling the way you do about Chechens because those handful of guys don't represent the masses much less represent Muslims or Islam. It amazes me that many people who are not fully aware of the history tend to focus on one side of the violence. I'm not pointing at you, rather the injustice we create in our own minds. The issue is not a simple one. There are so many factors, so many players, so many games that create this atmosphere of violence. And I know it's reality but it seems that some just feel that they could play games with people's lives. Anytime we are affected by such incidents I urge people to read history to grasp some understanding...and try not to get a bias source. Kids are dying, mothers are weeping and we have a audacity to harbor hate? Let's learn to put it to rest because that's exactly what fuels this blaze. Lastly, according to my information, most of those killed were Muslim...alas they were human.

Regards

[mule]

All I see is the violence. It's like its picking up speed. I feel bad for my brothers and sisters living over there. Every day I read violence attached to Islam.

[hasan]

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/09/02/zakayev.shtml

[Porky]

Mule!!!

Hey, longtime friend, how are you? Hope you are well.

I was wondering where you'd gone and thought you finally had had enough of my points of view.

It is really good to see Mule's name again.

Best regards,

Porkster