Missing Verses

[hawk]

Please believe me when i say that my question is genuine.
I have no desire to offend.


"I told him that the Shi'a I had spoken to denied this and countered me by presenting a tahreef tradition from Sahih al Bukhari - with Umar stating that a Surah on stoning is missing. The brother was shocked and after about a minute's silence he said"

I got this from an islamic website;
www.answering-ansar.org
That was referred to by a member of this forum.


How true is this tradition?
Which Hadith is it referring to in particular.
Could someone please post the hadith in question.
along with an explanation of the chain.

[hamid_al-murid]

salaam all

here is an answer to that from the same book, same author, from the website you just mentioned:

"Certainly We revealed the Reminder and certainly We shall preserve it." (The Holy Qur'an 15: 9)

When Allah (swt) provides a guarantee that it is protected any hadith of tahreef automatically has to be rejected.

for my part (for the record ), i'm not interested in converting anyone to anything...least of all by the logic of debate. what i am interested in is touching the hearts of people and reminding them of the immense value of putting God first in every aspect of life. this is what He wants...to be worshipped and served sincerely. then, if Allah wants to convert someone, He's perfectly capable of doing so.

so...i would really caution people to watch carefully what happens in these kinds of debates. watch for the fruit of them. taste the fruit. is this the fruit that you really want to be giving in God's name? is what we say really bringing people closer to God? is the heart of the one you address opening like the bud of the rose in spring after hearing your words? because that's the only way to really know for sure....

peace all round
hamid

[hawk]

salaam all

here is an answer to that from the same book, same author, from the website you just mentioned:for my part (for the record ), i'm not interested in converting anyone to anything...least of all by the logic of debate. what i am interested in is touching the hearts of people and reminding them of the immense value of putting God first in every aspect of life. this is what He wants...to be worshipped and served sincerely. then, if Allah wants to convert someone, He's perfectly capable of doing so.

so...i would really caution people to watch carefully what happens in these kinds of debates. watch for the fruit of them. taste the fruit. is this the fruit that you really want to be giving in God's name? is what we say really bringing people closer to God? is the heart of the one you address opening like the bud of the rose in spring after hearing your words? because that's the only way to really know for sure....

peace all round
hamid

For my part I am not interested in a debate.
An explanation would suffice for me.

[hasan]

For my part I am not interested in a debate.
An explanation would suffice for me.

Here is my brief explanation. Our beloved Sahaba did not distinguish between the inspirations our beloved Prophet recieved.

Whether it was revelation of the Quran or inspiration for judgement regarding application for Gods laws.

There are interpretations of that particular report where our beloved Sahaba claimed it was Gods law with previous generations and is still a law from God. I believe it was our beloved Sahabas concern or warning that our beloved Prophets infallible status as mediatory of revelation would be questioned or brushed aside and thereby a time will come where formulating of judgements will only be based on the help of the Quran. Our beloved Prophet was seen and considered a walking Quran.To me there is a wisdom to fathom there. There are also reports that our beloved Sahaba had also an ability to prophesise outcomes. A qoute comes to mind I am not sure who said this and it is something like this; that to measure a mans greatness is by the actions, that have been taken by him in his time, that are only seen to be great after he dies.. like a chess player with all possible moves considered way ahead before taking the move..

The report under discussion only indicates to me a precedence that can but not necessarily be used by Judges when formulating punishments where criterias and evidences are not to the contrary.

Now let me speak from what I believe is a perspective of a muslim mind regarding punishments and that may be of interest..

..the belief in the here-after is one of the prequisites to enter upon a muslim mindset regarding faith. That is; this world is temporary and actions will be questioned in the here-after..as real as this world is; the here-after is as at least as real; the only difference is is that the here-after is everlasting. A muslim with this mindset will rather be regarding punishment be punished in this world than the here-after. There a reports of muslims requesting punishment for crimes under Gods law from our beloved Prophet.

I can see that punishments for crime under this court of law would then be like a cleansing, leaving the baggage of remorse behind when entering the here-after. Punishment under this court of law to me however is only applicable for the accused who have knowingly abused or have cognition that they rejected options to a means where they become unblameworthy and has jeapordised the social fabric or good will under administration.

Where the social fabric or good will is not jeapordised..that is behind closed doors.. or within lands that are under administration outside the law of Islam..it is to be left between themselves and with the hope of forgiveness from Allah.


These views should only be considered perspectives I consider and Allah and His Prophet knows best..

[hawk]

Thank you hasan

Thank you, a most enlightening article