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Thread: Zina bil Jabr

  1. #1
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    Default Zina bil Jabr

    Would Zina bil Jabr (rape) still require 4 witnesses as evidence

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    and would punishment be prescribed to the victim

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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    Zina is fornication, I don't think rape can be described as such...not in English or Arabic. Also, we use the word "ghusb" for rape, which basically implies force. Fornication is willful participation.

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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    gasp is in turkish too, it can imply rape with or without coitus also for the act of forcibly taking away anything from unsuspecting owners an example would be the act of snatching away handbags from women as being reffered to as gasp
    Last edited by hasan; 16th February 2008 at 14:36.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    would you believe it still requires 4 witnesses according to jurispudence

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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    As salamu `alaykum,

    The establishment of innocence on behalf of the victim does not require witnesses, but for a hadd to be applied to the accused would. And Allah knows best.
    "Allah is the point. If it is other-than-Allah, then it is besides the point." - Nuh Ha Mim Keller

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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    zina bil-raza is adultery; fornication with consent outside of legally being married
    Last edited by hasan; 16th February 2008 at 14:58.

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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    Quote Originally Posted by lumumba_s View Post
    As salamu `alaykum,

    The establishment of innocence on behalf of the victim does not require witnesses, but for a hadd to be applied to the accused would. And Allah knows best.
    if it is not required for the victim then why would it be required for the accused?

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    Veteran Member vinod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    err..because everyone is presumed innocent? And the burden of bringing witnesses is on the prosecution. So, what's the problem in that?
    1.4 billion people live under the poverty line - 1.25 USD per day. 20000 Africans die needlessly everyday due to AIDS, malaria and TB. 1.02 billion people do not have enough to eat. 3/4s of this are rural poor farmers who will also bear the brunt of global warming.

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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    it was in relation to the hadd punishment for the accused and not to verify the claim of the victim

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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    if there is no need for witnesses to the claim of the victim wouldnt that be by default guilt for punishment of the accused

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    Veteran Member vinod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    I need a lumumba here. In Islamic law who brings the action for rape - the state or the victim?
    1.4 billion people live under the poverty line - 1.25 USD per day. 20000 Africans die needlessly everyday due to AIDS, malaria and TB. 1.02 billion people do not have enough to eat. 3/4s of this are rural poor farmers who will also bear the brunt of global warming.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    my view is that witnesses are not required for the hadd punishment for the accused, evidences are but not necessarily as witnesses

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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    the victim

  15. #15
    Veteran Member vinod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zina bil Jabr

    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan
    if there is no need for witnesses to the claim of the victim wouldnt that be by default guilt for punishment of the accused
    Can you clarify what is the claim of the victim - innocence of self or guilt of the accused? Are you talking about rape or adultery?

    Regards
    1.4 billion people live under the poverty line - 1.25 USD per day. 20000 Africans die needlessly everyday due to AIDS, malaria and TB. 1.02 billion people do not have enough to eat. 3/4s of this are rural poor farmers who will also bear the brunt of global warming.

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