Last edited by Ansar Al-Haq; 5th June 2005 at 04:55.
I think it's in the bible. Parts of it sound very familar.
Yes, the terms "Gog" and "Magog" are used frequently throughout both Testaments, especially together, and confusingly enough they tend to mean many different things. I think that the sense employed in the Koran is more or less the same as that used in the book of Revelation, where they are two as yet unknown kingdoms that will be known for their iniquity--or something like that--it's been a long time since I've been a Christian and studied these things in depth.
As far as Yajooj and Majooj are concerned, their are some narratives of hadiths which mention about their arrival before the Day of Judgement and some signs about them are clearly mentioned in the sources in advance so that we could recognize them if we get a chance to view them.
One of the signs about them is that when they will appear ,they will fire arrows in the sky and the arrows will return with blood on them.
According to the interpretation of Some of the Muslim Scholars , Yajooj and Majooj have already appeared in the form of USA and Isreal and they interpret the firing of arrows in the sky as the missiles and bombs which USA and Isreal have developed in great number and we can see that USA is attacking Muslim Countries with heavy hands and is using its weapons against Iraq.
In Afghanistan, USA used its missile technology against Taliban and missiles backward form could be arrows which were used during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) since their was no missile technology during that time.
I would appreciate if my brothers present their views on this subject.
Waiting for reply
The reason why Isreal and USA are considered as Yajooj and Majooj is because Yajooj and Majooj are not actually two individual personalities but are nations.
Salaam noble mastermind.
Your ideas are colourful, i must admit, but i have one slight problem. What then is the wall of Dhul Qarnaein? When did America + Israel say "insha'Allah" and break through it? I also read that they would have very large ears, and G.Bush doesnt.
Ansar, the fact we havent detected them doesnt mean jack, to be frank. We cant the 2 angels on our shoulders, yet they are there, arent they? We cant detect Jinn, but they are there are they? You dont honestly think that science is the explanation to all things? Where is the Unseen in that equation?
First, big ears is not in authentic hadiths.When did America + Israel say "insha'Allah" and break through it? I also read that they would have very large ears, and G.Bush doesnt.
Second, "insha'Allah" means "if God wills" or "if God willing", and US is one of the few (if not the only country) countries in the west that uses God in lot of their statements.
Third, I'm not sure about Israel, but you interpret them as US according to Bible:
This is awfully similar to things that are prophesized, in hadiths, at the time of the arrival of Al Mehdi.Revelation 20:
(7) When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison (8) and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. (9) They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. (10) And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev.20:6-10).
(1) "Son of man, prophesy against Gog and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. (2) I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. (3) Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. (4) On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals. (5) You will fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD . (6) I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the LORD. (Ez.39:1-6).
(17) " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Are you not the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel? At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them. (18) This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign LORD . (19) In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. (20) The fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence. The mountains will be overturned, the cliffs will crumble and every wall will fall to the ground. (21) I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign LORD . Every man's sword will be against his brother. (22) I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him. (23) And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD .' (Ez.38:14-23).
Regarding Israel, it could be symbolic and how you will interpret it if you consider the saying of Jesus (p) that the kingdom of God will be given to another nation?
Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
ps: this is speculation, but it is a possiblity.
As I havementioned before, I disagree with the notion that any of today's nations are Yajuj and Majuj because it does not fit with the story or any of the narrations. They are a race that is doomed to Hell which makes me wonder about issues of accountability for them.
So the explanation I gave is the one that seems most logical to me:
They are a hidden race of monsters...waiting.
To find out who Gog and magog are I think a person should go back to Noah's 3 sons.
Gen 10:1 Now these [are] the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
Gen 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
If you find out what people Japheth represents then you will know who Magog and gog are. I would think you would anyways.
I don't believe that Gog and magog are isreal and the us. I think maybe Russia or maybe even China. China is meantioned in the new testament.
I'm open though.
Here are your monsters Noble Ansar........
Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts [were] like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads [were] as it were crowns like gold, and their faces [were] as the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as [the teeth] of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings [was] as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months.
Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.
Please can you explain how your above post refers to Gog and Magog?
I agree that both tribes most likely descend from two of Noah(A)'s sons and are probably related to the tartaric races.
I also agree with the hadith that they will come out from the barrier in the east(somewhere in central asia) to attack all on Earth whilst reaking havoc and causing much chaos.
Many thanks and Peace.
Last edited by Nadeem; 19th December 2004 at 20:39.
And say:"the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Absolutely nothing. I think nothing anyways. Prophecy gets complicated. It was in reference to monsters. Sir Ansar's monsters.:happycycl :alien:Please can you explain how your above post refers to Gog and Magog?
I am pretty sure that they are from only one of his sons.personally agree that both tribes descend from two of Noah(A)'s sons and are probably related to the tartaric races.
This is in the bible. If you would like the verses I can surely look it up for you. End times stuff is interesting.I also agree with the hadith that they will come out from the barrier in the east(somewhere in central asia) to attack all on Earth whilst reaking havoc and causing much chaos.
Have a nice day.
I always thought it was two sons(maybe they were his grandsons),hence the two tribes;Yajuj and Majuj.
Please do show me where their emergence and behaviour are mentioned in the Bible,many thanks.
Peace and goodwill.
And say:"the Truth has come and falsehood vanished,for falsehood is ever bound to vanish."
Thanks for the monster post mule. It was an interesting read.
I still don't believe that Yajuj and Majuj are Russians or Chinese. It doesn't fit. These monsters are isolated right now, and we have no knowledge of them. Many russians and chinese are muslims. It is illogical to say that they are any present ethnicity.
Btw, Nadeem can you bring an authentic hadith that shows they are from Nuh?
I looked over the verses again and here is what I found.
I gave you a commentary about Gog and Magog. It seems to me we are both right. In one verse it talks about Gog and magog as if they are two peoples and in the other it talk as if Gog is the ruler of Magog or the cheif prince of something and something. But Why I think that they came from one of Noah's sons is because Magog is meantioned as being a desendant of Japheth. But I should have been more fair and said that this is just my opinion. Gog is also meantioned as being a son of Jewish Joel but I don't know if Gog is the same Gog.
1Ch 5:4 The sons of Joel; Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son,
Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
Eze 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
The rest of the verses about Gog and Magog are very long so I just gave you the links. It talks about how they will be coming down from the north to attack Israel and that God will destroy all but a sixth of them. It talks about how it will take Israel 7 months to bury the dead. I think that if we could figure out who the people of Japheth are we might be able to figure out who these people are. There are some other verses that don't meantion Magog or gog and yet could very well be talking about them. I did not note them.
The bible also meantions that the kings of the east will come through the Euphrates to go after I assume Israel. It says that the army will be 200,000,000. Where is the Euphrates? it's in Iraq. Anyways due east lays China. Russia and maybe Europe come from the north and China and friends come from the east. (On a side note China is the only country I know that is big enough to have an army so big. Isn't it remarkable how John was gifted 2000 years ago with the knowledge that the east would hold such an army?)
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen [were] two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails [were] like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
have a nice day,