IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

[aladdin]

Brother you understand everything clearly and we are unnesscarry going into circles. Read my post number 112 carefully. Also, the fatwas of dead ulemas are no longer applicable as to allow the reform in the religion.

The dead cannot give ijtihad. The living can give ijtihad and the living can renew the dead fatwas in their own ijtihad if they so desire.

Wa' Salaam

Mohamed

[aladdin]

Is the concept of Mufti and the training of the Mufti same in all four madhabs of Sunnis?

[aladdin]

Is the fatwas of all the ulemas, can be acted upon by everyone in the Sunni sect, meaning everyone from the four madhabs?

In Shia Islam, I can only act on the fatwa of the only the one mustahid, whose I am doing the taqlid of. Not all the mustahids.

[lumumba_s]

We are going in circles because you apparently refuse to answer my question. Post #112 does not do that. Please, what is the textbook definition of ijtihad? I am not asking for examples or anything else. Just a technical definition if you will.

[aladdin]

This is my last post as I have wasted a lot of my time answering your questions. It appears it has been nothing but waste of my time.

I have asked you two questions and I am waiting for your answer.

[lumumba_s]

Is the fatwas of all the ulemas, can be acted upon by everyone in the Sunni sect, meaning everyone from the four madhabs?

In Shia Islam, I can only act on the fatwa of the only the one mustahid, whose I am doing the taqlid of. Not all the mustahids.

For the last time, I am not asking you to explain the Shi'i concept, I am not asking for examples, I am not asking for anything but what I am asking for. A basic definition.

Furthermore, if you don't know the answer to this question from the Sunni perspective, how do you have the audacity to describe what we do as "shopping" around?

[lumumba_s]

You have asked me two questions in the last 5 minutes, I have asked you one for the past 2 hours and you are wasting your time?

I'll give you your answers, then will you please give me mine?

]Is the fatwas of all the ulemas, can be acted upon by everyone in the Sunni sect, meaning everyone from the four madhabs?

A contemporary fatwa is taken from a mufti. As for past fatwas, they are ranked and become established opinions within the school, according to the research and expertise of the people who concern themselves with that part of ijtihad. There is an actual system to the Sunni method. It isn't necessary for a scholar to re-make ijtihad on every single question that they are asked that do not relate to a specific situation.

In terms of ibada, the situation is more restricted considering the akhiri consequences, but to be brief, it is permissible for someone to act upon a fatwa from a school other than their own if: a) it is an actual fatwa, not something they read in a book, and b) a scholar actually approves of what they are doing. Meaning that taqlid is obligatory for the one who makes ijtihad, but it cannot be said that it is obligatory for me to be Maliki. But since I have learned that school, the positions that I follow have to be based upon scholarship and if I feel a need to take a position that goes against what I have been taught in ibada, it has to be with the fatwa of a scholar, otherwise, I may wind up nullifying an act of worship. Following a madhhab isn't picking up a book and going at it, but being taught the shari'ah based upon the guidance of the previous and past scholars. You are overly simplifying the Sunni position.

In terms of mu'amalat or "mundane" matters, then it is permissible, so long as the opinion that you are following is valid. Meaning, that I can't kill my neighbor and claim his wife as my booty merely because a scholar in Saudi Arabia said that American citizens are legitimate targets, which is a fatwa that goes against both the Qur'an, Sunnah and established consensus, since you mentioned this as an example of an allegedly position that a Sunni can follow. Or, a better example is that it is not permissible for me to get a savings account in my back just because so-and-so said that 4.5% interest isn't rib'a when the majority of scholars declare it as and based upon textual evidence, has declare such a position to be a mistake and invalid to follow.

But even then, opinions are taught, not read. So there is really very little difference between what you do and what we do. Only that we do not obligate someone to ask a single individual for guidance. Where is the textual or logical proof for that?

Is the concept of Mufti and the training of the Mufti same in all four madhabs of Sunnis?

Yes.

Now, what is the technical/textbook definition of ijtihad?

[aladdin]

What you are talking, don't you think that every Tom, Dick and Harry knows about it.

I live in the county where the ibada is from. Yes, they have mufti. The Ibada are more like Shias who beleive in the imamat. His Majesty, The Sultan of Oman, Sultan Qaboos bin Said al-Said is the imam of Oman. May God give him long life, Ameen Ya' Rabbi.

As far as the four Sunni madhabs are concerned I don't think that they all have muftis. And, also I don't think that only the muftis are allowed to give fatwas. The basics are knowns and there is not much difference in the basics of Sunnis and Shias.

A Shia will not rely on the ijtihad of a dead person. To Shia the rasool Allah had wahi all the times for all practical purposes and to the Shias rasool Allah never used ijtihad.

Wa' Salaam

Mohamed

[lumumba_s]

Hannahh: Do you still think some of us are not in completely different ballparks? Take this how you will, but I feel like I'm trying to play chess with someone who only knows the rules of checkers.

[lumumba_s]

What you are talking, don't you think that every Tom, Dick and Harry knows about it.

I live in the county where the ibada is from. Yes, they have mufti. The Ibada are more like Shias who beleive in the imamat. His Majesty, The Sultan of Oman, Sultan Qaboos bin Said al-Said is the imam of Oman. May God give him long life, Ameen Ya' Rabbi.

As far as the four Sunni madhabs are concerned I don't think that they all have muftis. And, also I don't think that only the muftis are allowed to give fatwas. The basics are knowns and there is not much difference in the basics of Sunnis and Shias.

A Shia will not rely on the ijtihad of a dead person. To Shia the rasool Allah had wahi all the times for all practical purposes and to the Shias rasool Allah never used ijtihad.

This is either a really clever joke or extremely sad (and something tells me that it is the latter). Mohamed, nevermind. We are talking about apples and oranges. Do you even know what the words mufti, ibada and ijtihad mean? I give up. We aren't even able to have a real dialog.

[aladdin]

So what are you saying that if you are from Hanbali school, following the Hanafi school can nullify your ibada. So, why an Hanbali cannot follow the Hanafi school thus nullifying an act of worship!!

[aladdin]

So how come the Sunnis want the Shias to follow the Hanafi school, when all the Sunnis themselves are not following the Hanafi school!

[lumumba_s]

So what are you saying that if you are from Hanbali school, following the Hanafi school can nullify your ibada. So, why an Hanbali cannot follow the Hanafi school thus nullifying an act of worship!!

You are going to make me loose my hair.

Let me use different group of madhhabs.

The Hanafi madhhab states that the wali is not an essential element of the nikah, the Maliki madhhab states that the witnesses are not an essential element of the nikah and the Shafi'i school states that the walima is not an esesntial element of the nikah. All based upon how the understand the Qur'an and hadiths in question and there is no definite evidence to state that one is correct and the other is not.

Therefore, I cannot say that since it is not obligatory for me to follow one particular scholar and I am allowed to "go shopping", I am going to get married based upon the Hanafi position that the wali is not fard, the Maliki position that witnesses are not fard and the Shafi'i position that the walima is not fard. So me and this girl I just met are married and on our way to the hotel for our honeymoon.

So, your articulation of the Sunni position as "shopping" around, is overly simplified, missing some details and I personally believe may lack understanding on your part (as Mohamed the man, not Mohamed the Shi'i) of what ijtihad actually is.

[lumumba_s]

So how come the Sunnis want the Shias to follow the Hanafi school, when all the Sunnis themselves are not following the Hanafi school!

Is Ashton Kutcher going to jump through my screen and tell me that I've just been Punk'd?

[aladdin]

The Hanafi madhhab states that the wali is not an essential element of the nikah, the Maliki madhhab states that the witnesses are not an essential element of the nikah and the Shafi'i school states that the walima is not an esesntial element of the nikah. All based upon how the understand the Qur'an and hadiths in question and there is no definite evidence to state that one is correct and the other is not.

For Shias you can use the same above example, but you have to substitute.

1. Living Ayatollahs for the dead imams.

2. Consider that each dead imam is represented by a living Ayatollah.

3. Instead of doing the taqlid of one dead imam, you can do the taqlid of one living Ayatollah.

4. Since you are not doing the taqlid of all the dead imams, therefore you won't be doing the taqlid of all the living Ayatollahs.

Simple as that.