Page 3 of 24 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 354

Thread: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

  1. #31
    Banned aladdin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post

    Therein lies the problem. Those with that type of mentality are only fooling themselves. Islam doesn't need a clergy; we need people to follow the guidance as best as they can.

    Salaam brother Ron,

    I couldn't agree with you more.

    But in practical terms it is not so simple. As we evolve as society we face issues that there were not even conceived in the 8th or the 9th century, when the imams of the Sunnis lived.

    Thus, we have salaf, the ibn-taymiyah/salafi/wahhabi, who are nothing but like the Mormons and/or Amish. They are all living in the past and couldn't care for reform.

    Such as, birth control pills which was inconciebale at the time the Sunnis imams lived. Or the abortion, if it threatens the life of mother. Are we allowed abortion. At what stage we are allowed abortion and so forth. As the Ummah evolves, so does the jurisprudence has to evolve with the Ummah. Thus, requiring constant reform.

    And, this reform has to come from the ulemas who are well versed in Islam. Not any Tom, Dick and Harry who call themselves ulemas.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

  2. #32
    Banned aladdin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by Kabeer View Post

    Ahh reminds me of the 'would you jump off a bridge' cliche.

    You are still responsible for your own actions, the fact that a person would look at a fatwa would mean they are thinking about whatever the content of that fatwa is, so not all responsibility can be displaced upon the fatwa issuer.

    Peace

    Salaam brother Kabeer,

    Not true, if you believe the above than I am not sure that you know Sunni Islam properly, though I might be wrong.

    What I understand that, in Sunni Islam, the ruler; or the imam; or the any of the fatwa giver is responsible for your acts. If the ruler, or the iman; or any of the fatwa giver tells you to have a Holy War, then you are to have a Holy War.

    This guarantees you not only that you are alive and that we perceive you not according to the Koran, but it also guarantees you the jannah.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

  3. #33
    Senior Member Hannahh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,532

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Thanks Aladdin. You taught me something there.

    [QUOTE][This is for an individual, who is not capable to do his/her ijtihad, than that person needs to the taqlid of a living mustahid. Which is about more than 99.99999% of the population./QUOTE]

    So you are saying that I don't need one? Because I don't believe I need one YET hahaha. But there are matters at times that do come up and I cannot answer them myself. I think this happens when it is an issue that is of modern origin and cannot be addressed simply by looking to the Quran as a direct source.

    Do you have one or do you do your own ijtihad?

    Kabeer, are you insinuating there are no bridges left to cross and that all the matters of the world stopped 1,400 lunar years ago?

    The reform that is available is in the administration of law..no more and no less. There is no coercion in Islam and when there is coercion in the law it must be supported by the Quran as it is the duty of a government of an Islamic state to support things that are mandatory and it is their duty to refrain from things and refrain those same things from their subjects like drugs, prostitution and pornography. This is common sense but when it comes to something like Pokemon cards, far be it from me to say that Allah wouldn't like it or Allah would consider it nonsense to rule in those matters. The bottom line though is that for some people "understanding" is given without any particular reason. It isn't necessarily based on a what anyone living or dead said either. It just is. And until you actually possess it, you cannot say what it is or deny that it exists. It is called certitude and for sure, I don't know half of what Aladdin knows about the rules and regs of Shi'ism but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is the problem with all of it and can be directly compared to the problems encountered in previous "sects" of Monotheism like Christianity and Judaism.

    When Hasan refers to the compulsory issues of following the four madhabs he neglects to realize that you cannot force someone to pray as they do in Saudi Arabia by employing religious police to encounter men, women and children in the workplace and shopping centers to force them into mosques. What good is a forced prayer? It is exactly things like that which lead to widespread rupture of the umma that "knows better" in its collective conscience but is left no recourse but to comply because to resist it is to invite possible imprisonment for things like eating in public during Ramadan.

    Peace
    Last edited by Hannahh; 16th April 2007 at 16:29.

  4. #34
    Banned aladdin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Salaam sister Hannah,

    I do the taqlid of Ayatollah Sistani, and I have asked him a many of question. To which he has replied me in his own hand writing. His people have sent me this as an attachment in the email as .jpg

    My wife who is from Arkansas, does the taqlid of Ayatollah Khamenini who is more moderate. Leave it to my children, who do the taqlid of Ayatollah Fadlallah from Lebanon, who is the moderate of them all.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

  5. #35
    Veteran Member lumumba_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Toronto/Winston-Salem
    Posts
    5,710

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    As salamu `alaykum,

    aladdin: I have a question about something. Do you believe that it is not permissible for a person to make taqlid in an issue that does not require contemporary ijtihad?
    "Allah is the point. If it is other-than-Allah, then it is besides the point." - Nuh Ha Mim Keller

  6. #36
    Banned aladdin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by lumumba_s View Post

    As salamu `alaykum,

    aladdin: I have a question about something. Do you believe that it is not permissible for a person to make taqlid in an issue that does not require contemporary ijtihad?

    Salaam brother lumumba_s,

    The Shia Islam is based on the following hierarchical system.

    1. Allah

    2. Muhammad and the Sunnah.

    3. Mind of an individual.

    4. Ijma (consensus).

    When the religion is clear cut based on Allah and rasool Allah, than there is no problem. For example, if rasool Allah tells us that we are to pray two rikayths in the morning, and the complete ijma (consensus) of the world says that we to pray three rikayths in the morning, than rasool Allah prevails.

    But, when we progress as an Ummah, than the reform in the religion must continue, where the issue is not clear cut as above. Such as, birth control pills, abortions, abortion at what stage and so forth.

    So who is to issue the fatwas for these. Are we to be like the salaf, the ibn-taymiyah/salafi/wahhabi, who are nothing but like the Mormons and/or Amish. They are all living in the past and couldn't care for reform.

    Or we live in the current times and have reform in the religion. And, who is to provide the reform in the religion, does it include any Tom, Dick and Harry, who calls themselves ulemas.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

  7. #37
    Mr Electron Kabeer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Harmonious Orbit
    Posts
    1,173

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by aladdin View Post
    Not true, if you believe the above than I am not sure that you know Sunni Islam properly, though I might be wrong.

    What I understand that, in Sunni Islam, the ruler; or the imam; or the any of the fatwa giver is responsible for your acts. If the ruler, or the iman; or any of the fatwa giver tells you to have a Holy War, then you are to have a Holy War.
    Salaams Mohamed,

    My post was more a comment, not a direct reply to you speaking about Sunni Islam. I was just pointing out that whether you are Sunni, Shia or whatever, you still have a certain amount of responsibility in your actions.

    Although what you are saying is right to a certain degree. If someone issues you a fatwa, and in fact it leads to a sin, the lay of blame will then be judged by Allah based on the very specific circumstances (E.g. some one issues a fatwa to assasinate a person wrongly). Responsibility cannot always 100% be displaced upon the fatwa issuer, although they would be in the wrong as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannahh View Post
    Kabeer, are you insinuating there are no bridges left to cross and that all the matters of the world stopped 1,400 lunar years ago?
    Salaams Sister Hannahh,

    I wasn't insinuating anything like that in my post. What I was saying is that each person shoulders the responsibility of thier own actions, even if they follow an incorrect fatwa, it is their fault still to a certain degree.

    (it is possible there are instances where the blame really can be totally displaced to the issuer, I have to akcnowledge that too, but not always)

    Peace
    “None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.”

  8. #38
    Veteran Member lumumba_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Toronto/Winston-Salem
    Posts
    5,710

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    aladdin: I already know all of that. You did not directly answer my question. I am not attacking you so the tactful answer is not necessary.

    Do you believe that it is permissible to make taqlid in an issue that does not require contemporary ijtihad?

    And do me a favor, it is really insulting when you, as a Shi'i, question the validity of our Sunnisim based upon your understanding of what Sunnism entails. When you make such statements, don't complain when people get offended and reflect the same amount of arrogance in respect to your beliefs.

    And even though I disagree with some of his position, Ibn Taymiyyah was far from being an "Amish" and he had a brilliant mind, even if he made mistakes. It was Ibn Taymiyyah's desire for reform that lead him to condemn what the majority of his peers sanctioned.
    Last edited by lumumba_s; 16th April 2007 at 17:39.
    "Allah is the point. If it is other-than-Allah, then it is besides the point." - Nuh Ha Mim Keller

  9. #39
    Banned aladdin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by lumumba_s View Post

    aladdin: I already know all of that. You did not directly answer my question. I am not attacking you so the tactful answer is not necessary.

    Do you believe that it is permissible to make taqlid in an issue that does not require contemporary ijtihad?

    Salaam brother lumumba_s;

    If the issue is clear cut than no taqlid is required. If rasool Allah said to pray two rikayths in the morning, than no mustahid will tell you to pray three rikayths in the morning. If he does than he is wrong and he is not a mustahid, because he is contradicting Allah and the word of Allah, who is the rasool Allah.

    Quote Originally Posted by lumumba_s View Post

    And even though I disagree with some of his position, Ibn Taymiyyah was far from being an "Amish" and he had a brilliant mind, even if he made mistakes. It was Ibn Taymiyyah's desire for reform that lead him to condemn what the majority of his peers sanctioned.

    ibn-Taymiyah and Khomeini are both dead, and as far I am concerned neither of them have any importance in my life. I can only say for both of them that God rest their souls in peace. And, so are many other ulemas dead too.

    We can't live in the past based on ibn-Taymiyah and Khomeini reforms. The reform should continue, and if doesn't than we will be live Mormons and/or Amish.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

  10. #40
    Veteran Member lumumba_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Toronto/Winston-Salem
    Posts
    5,710

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    I am not talking about something clear and explicit, but something that requires ijtihad, but not every time someone reaches the rank of "ayatollah". And why do you associated benefiting from "dead" scholars with being in opposition to reform? If that is the case, then you should through the NB and every other book but the Qur'an and hadith collections out the window.

    And ijtihad is not reform...
    "Allah is the point. If it is other-than-Allah, then it is besides the point." - Nuh Ha Mim Keller

  11. #41
    Banned aladdin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by lumumba_s View Post

    I am not talking about something clear and explicit, but something that requires ijtihad, but not every time someone reaches the rank of "ayatollah". And why do you associated benefiting from "dead" scholars with being in opposition to reform? If that is the case, then you should through the NB and every other book but the Qur'an and hadith collections out the window.

    And ijtihad is not reform...

    Salaam brother,

    The Ayatollah has a
    hierarchical system of representatives. All his fatwas and ruling are on his website and printed as a book too. It gets updated on a regular basis.

    As far as the Holy Koran is concerned, the author of the Koran, Allah is not dead. So is the Sunna of rasool Allah is not dead either. If the Koran and Sunna provides answers than there is no need of taqlid. But if the answers are not clear cut than they require taqlid and they don't have to go the Ayatollah every time. Usually, the answer is posted on his website or one get the answer quickly from his representatives.

    I am a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) from USA. This is my profession, and at the same time it is my bread and butter too. When it comes to religion, I am a layman. So I turn to a mustahid for ijtihad.

    The mustahid who is highly qualified in the religion, has studied the religion throughly, including the past and present ulemas from both Shias and Sunnis. And, for him it is the ongoing process. As, far I am concerned I might study religion, but it is not my profession.

    So as far as the past ulemas are concerned, who are dead they don't mean anything to me. Even most of the current ulemas too. But as far as the mustahid is concerned he studies them all and than he base his ijtihad based on his study of them and his mental facilities.

    As far as an individual ijtihad is concerned, it is reform but it is at the lowest personal level. The ijtihad of a mustahid is at the highest society level and this reform benefits everyone in the society and not just the individual.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

  12. #42
    Veteran Member lumumba_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Toronto/Winston-Salem
    Posts
    5,710

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    You still have not answered my question. Nevermind...
    "Allah is the point. If it is other-than-Allah, then it is besides the point." - Nuh Ha Mim Keller

  13. #43
    Banned aladdin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by lumumba_s View Post

    You still have not answered my question. Nevermind...

    What is your question. If it is to benefit from the dead scholars, than as a layman I don't need too. Unless I am studying religion as an interest.

    But to a mustahid, he benefits tremendously from the dead scholars, as his job is nothing but to study religion.

  14. #44
    Veteran Member lumumba_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Toronto/Winston-Salem
    Posts
    5,710

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Is it haram for a laymen to make taqlid to a past scholar in an issue that does not require contemporary ijtihad? For example, would it be haram for me to follow Ibn al-Shihab's opinion that it is preferred for the imam to only make one taslim when ending the prayer?
    "Allah is the point. If it is other-than-Allah, then it is besides the point." - Nuh Ha Mim Keller

  15. #45
    Banned aladdin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Also, if your question is:

    And why do you associated benefiting from "dead" scholars with being in opposition to reform?

    No, I am not saying that we don't benefit from the dead scholars or the mustahid don't benefit from the dead scholar. What I am saying that it requires current scholar for the reform in the religion to continue, of course these current scholars have studied from the past scholars.

Similar Threads

  1. Shia and their Beliefs
    By Fatah-Momin in forum Islamic Sects and Sectarian Issues
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 24th October 2008, 06:28
  2. Imam Bukhari (194 - 265)
    By hasan in forum University of Cut-n-Paste
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 25th May 2006, 11:55
  3. On the Necessity of Following Qualified Scholarship
    By lumumba_s in forum Islamic Discussions
    Replies: 168
    Last Post: 25th November 2005, 14:50
  4. Sufism?
    By Sister In Islam in forum Islamic Discussions
    Replies: 147
    Last Post: 26th September 2005, 04:48
  5. Article on history of ahadith
    By vinod in forum Islamic Discussions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 14th December 2004, 06:09

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •