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Thread: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

  1. #16
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Salam Hasan,

    Thank you for the reply. I just wondered why Mohamed would use a word like that. Also, I didn't understand why he couldn't explain it. Nevertheless, you have and I appreciate it.

    Regards

  2. #17
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by hasan View Post

    Being a Mujtahid is not a Shiats monopoly and consensus (ijma) can be reached without an infallible Imam as taught from the credo of Imam I Azam, Imam-i-Muhammad Shaibani, Imam-i-Abu Yusuf, Imam Malik, Imam Shafi, Imam Hanbal and all being in agreement with the credo as taught from Imam-i-Baqir, Zayd-i-Shahid, Imam-i-Jafar Sadiq and Imam-i-Musa Kazim and according to the Shiite Credo a person who denies them must be a disbeliever.

    If I am not wrong than I beleive that all the above mentioned people are dead. So in Shia Islam to do a taqlid of a dead person is not allowed as it would strife the much needed reform in the religion.

    Even after all the above dead people mentioned there were more Shia imams after them. So again in Shia Islam they will follow their living imams rather than the above dead people. Imam Mahdi is still alive but ghaib. So in Shia Islam during imam Mahdi absence only, the Shias are allowed to do taqlid of a mustahid. As before no such thing was required in Shia Islam, as the line of imamat continued and the taqlid is allowed to them only.

    Again, ijtihad and taqlid is different from ijma (consensus). Shia Islam beleive that rasool Allah Muhammad had wahi all the time so he didn't need ijtihad.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

  3. #18
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    In the Shiat credo, if there is a consensus of jurispudence reached amongst the mujtahid then this means it is a sign that an Infallible Imam is amongst them. Meaning consensus of Mujtahids can only be reached when there is an Infallible Imam amongst them. Taqlid of the mujtahid in the Shiat credo is in the Jurispudence only and not in their performance of ijtihad for the changing in the understanding of Iman; therefore the Iman cannot be reformed; Therefore the Iman of Imam i Azam as taught by the Infallible Imams is perpetuated through Imam Maturidi and Imam Ashariyah as the credo of the Shiat. These credo's say it is an unforgiveable sin to malicously slander the Ashabi Kiram, there view on ijtihad is one of permissiablitly in performing it and considered a Thawab for the Mujtahid. There credo say our Beloved Prophet had performed Ijtihad and encouraged ijtihad and sanctioned consensus as a religious source. Keep in mind we are not talking about the jurispudence we are talking about the consensus of Belief as promulagated by Imam I Azam as taught by the Infallible Imams. The argument of them being dead nullifys any recourse to them for taqlid is only applicable in Jurispudence and not in thier Iman. This religion; Islam, cannot be reformed.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    There was Taqlid of Imam Ali by the Infallible Imams in the use of Fedek..

  5. #20
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Salaam brother Hasan,

    Where did this statement come from that, "
    Being a Mujtahid is not a Shiats monopoly". This is nothing but inflammatory remark from your part.

    Here is what I have said about a mustahid and this same what I have posted from Ayatollah Sistani site:

    .........

    Popularity of the jurist which sets him in a different league from his peers, so much so that this leads to certainty as regards his juridical prowess and knowledge, is another avenue.

    * Are there any other conditions, apart from that of juridical excellence, that should be present in the jurist we should follow?

    - He should be a man, adult, sane, believer, just, living not dead, of pure pedigree, and should not be prone to mistakes, forgetfulness, and inattention.


    ........

    I joined my father in numerating many other examples:

    * Enjoining good and forbidding evil, belief in Allah, His apostles and messengers and ..

    - No, belief in God and His unity, the prophethood of our Prophet Mohammad (s.a.w), the imamate of the twelve Imams, and resurrection are matters outside the remit of taqleed. They are of the fundamentals of religion. A Muslim has to believe in them unequivocally, leading up to belief in Allah, using one’s own effort and what intellectual power Allah has instilled in you to reach personal satisfaction and certainty in the matter.


    ...........

    So, brother Hasan please take some time and read, which I have posted in good faith.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

  6. #21
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    It is a statement of fact.

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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Assalaamu'alaikum Mohamed

    the much needed reform in the religion.
    So you don't believe that RasullAllah (s.a.w) left a completed deen, but it needs continuous reform? What do you take by the ayah, "this day I have perfected your religion, completed my favour on you and have chosen Islam as your deen"..? Is your standpoint not a contradiction of this ayah?

    Regards

  8. #23
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by Haroon View Post

    Assalaamu'alaikum Mohamed

    So you don't believe that RasullAllah (s.a.w) left a completed deen, but it needs continuous reform? What do you take by the ayah, "this day I have perfected your religion, completed my favour on you and have chosen Islam as your deen"..? Is your standpoint not a contradiction of this ayah?

    Regards

    Wa' Salaam brother Haroon,

    No, there is no contradiction with the above aya. The deen is complete and therefore the mustahids cannot touch the deen. The mustahid is only allowed to touch figh (jurisprudence).

    Figh, such as if abortion is allowed or not and so forth, this is where the ongoing reform is needed as we keep on evolving.

    Ma' Salaam

    Mohamed
    Last edited by aladdin; 15th April 2007 at 12:39.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Assalaamu'alaikum

    Out of curiosity, if you get all of your fataawa from your Ayatullah, then what use are the everyday scholars? I mean, what do they do? What is their role?

    Regards

  10. #25
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by Haroon View Post
    Assalaamu'alaikum

    Out of curiosity, if you get all of your fataawa from your Ayatullah, then what use are the everyday scholars? I mean, what do they do? What is their role?

    Regards

    Salaam brother Haroon,

    The ADSL is down today and I am on dial-up so I can't answer fully now. Inshaallah, I will answer you fully later on. In the mean time:

    1.Once a mustahid is chosen by someone, than that individual cannot change the mustahid, until the mustahid dies.

    2. This is for the individual not to play around fatwas, or to shop around fatwas. For example, today I like the fatwa on long hair of mustahid "A" so I follow him. And for example, tomorrow I like that fatwa on long nails, of mustahid "B" so I follow him. It will be just playing with fatwas.

    3. This is for an individual, who is not capable to do his/her ijtihad, than that person needs to the taqlid of a living mustahid. Which is about more than 99.99999% of the population.

    4. The mustahid should be highly qualified, trained for years and graduate either from the Najaf University of the Quom University as an Ayatollah.

    5. I believe, that they can only be from the progeny of rasool Allah, from the progeny of Fatima and Ali.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

  11. #26
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Salaam brother Haroon,

    ADSL is back now. The role of the other scholars is either to do their own ijtihads; or to be the representatives of an mustahid; or learning to be a mustahid one of these days. Now to due to the internet the access to the mustahid is very easy, but still takes months for a reply. In olden days and still today if one needs the answer quickly, then one will approach the representative of that mustahid in the country.

    If the representative can't answer than he will get in touch with a higher mustahid in the country of his domicile; or in the countries nearby; or in the country of the mustahid, either Najaf or Quom. Or personally get in touch with the concerned mustahid. It is basically a hierarchical system.

    Let us say that I am doing the taqlid of mustahid "A". And, there is/are no representative(s) of mustahid "A" in Oman, but there is the representative of mustahid "B". If I need a quick answer, I will go to the representative of mustahid "B" and inform him that I am doing the taqlid of mustahid "A". After doing so I will ask him what is the jurisprudence of mustahid "A" on this matter. If he is aware of the jurisprudence of mustahid "A", the representative of "B" will reply me right away. If he doesn't than he will write to mustahid "A" on my behalf for his ruling. Or get in touch with representative(s) in nearby countries for my answer.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed
    Last edited by aladdin; 16th April 2007 at 12:52.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Assalaamu'alaikum Mohamed

    For the 4 great madhabs, the students of the great Mujtahids (Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi'i, Imam Malik and Imam Ahmad (r.a)) are the ones who give the fatawa based on the jurisprudence of the great Imams. The system still works, and works well. Most of jurisprudence in these days does not need to be altered from that of the Imams' era, but simply adapted to modern day situations. This is similar with the ahadith. We dont need new ahadith, we just need to work the ahadith into our lives based on their meaning.

    Most of our 'ulama however, will put a great emphasis on following the Sunnah whilst they give their fatawa. If a business man comes to them asking about interest or something, they will take the opportunity to call him towards the Sunnah, as well as answer his question. Knowledge is meant to be practiced afterall right? Your stance on fiqh is not so different from our stance.

    Regards ~ Wasalaam

  13. #28
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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Salaam brother Haroon,

    Very well said. What I understand, and please do correct me if I am wrong.

    Shias:

    1. Only very select few can issue a fatwa. And, these select few have to be highly qualified as Ayatollah.

    2. One cannot pick and choose the fatwa they like or they don't like. They are not allowed to shop around.


    Sunnis.

    1. Any ulema can issue a fatwa. I am not sure about their qualifications.

    2. One can take any fatwa their heart desire and reject any fatwa they don't like. Basically, tailor design the religion to their personal needs.

    Probably the way I said is might be crude, so please forgive me for this. As, an example if I like the fatwa of ulema "A" because he allows homosexuality, but doesn't allow marriage between the homosexuals. After few years his stance doesn't change, but now there is a new ulema "B" who allows the homosexual marriage, so still I can now take his fatwa too and get married. As far as I am relying on the fatwas, I am not held responsible for my personal actions.

    Wa' Salaam

    Mohamed

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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    As far as I am relying on the fatwas, I am not held responsible for my personal actions.
    Therein lies the problem. Those with that type of mentality are only fooling themselves. Islam doesn't need a clergy; we need people to follow the guidance as best as they can.

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    Default Re: IMAM-I-AZAM PRAISED BY SHIAT SCHOLARS

    Quote Originally Posted by aladdin View Post
    As far as I am relying on the fatwas, I am not held responsible for my personal actions.
    Ahh reminds me of the 'would you jump off a bridge' cliche.

    You are still responsible for your own actions, the fact that a person would look at a fatwa would mean they are thinking about whatever the content of that fatwa is, so not all responsibilty can be displaced upon the fatwa issuer.

    Peace
    “None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.”

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