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Thread: Bible and Science

  1. #1
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Bible and Science

    Discuss here.
    Last edited by Ansar Al-Haq; 6th June 2005 at 00:23.

  2. #2
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    Anyone?

  3. #3
    (THOAT-wob-lur MAN-grove)
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    It should also be noted that the Koran uses the same term ("lamp") to be a poetic nomenclature for both the sun and the stars, thus indicating that the sun is a star.

  4. #4
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    Good point!

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    Diamond Thunderbolt Vajradhara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    Namaste all,

    you know... there is only a certain type of Christian that has an issues reconciling the two creation accounts in Genesis, these are know as Biblical Fundamentalists and they are characterized, in one way, by the belief that the Bible should be taken literally.

    this actually represents an minority position within the Christian tradition. for those that hold that the Bible is a spiritual guide meant to impart spiritual lessons, this is not a problem, or even really a consideration.

    in point of fact, it was a group of Christian scientists that were attempting to prove the 6,000 year old, YEC version of the Bible, when they actually ended up disproving it! they falsified their own theory and subsequently dropped it. it is unfortunate, that the majority of the Christian Fundamentalist laiety are unaware of this fact.

    Meditation brings wisdom, lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what holds you back.

    ~Buddha Shakyamuni



  6. #6
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    So do they believe that God doesn't know his own scientific laws?

  7. #7
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    Or do they believe that man can write something and attribute it to God?

  8. #8
    Diamond Thunderbolt Vajradhara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    Namaste Ansar,

    you'd have to ask them

    i can report my observations to you, however.

    i observe that Christians whom are scientists have dispoved a Young Earth CreationISM theory predicated on either Biblical account of creation.

    however, i know that those observations hold little weight with my Muslim friends, nevertheless, it should be clear that there are different views regarding the Bible and what it is.

    Fundamentalists are very alike, the world over, regardless of religious affiliation or cultural bias, in my experience. they stand in contrast to the Liberals of their faith. we could use the words Orthodox and Heterodox, if it would be more clear.

    the Orthodoxy has, in this case, been proven to be incorrect by the Heterodoxy.

    Meditation brings wisdom, lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what holds you back.

    ~Buddha Shakyamuni



  9. #9
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    I am a young earth creationist.

  10. #10
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    So do you reject science?

    What is your opinion on the scientific miracles in Islam?

  11. #11
    Al Abd Al Jabar hawk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    I myself think, if you must argue about science, it is far more interesting to talk about evolution.

    Evolution is a very very sound theory.
    It is apparent in us today.
    there are numerous fossils found of other hominids
    I certainly dont deny evolution.

  12. #12
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    Pardon me hawk, but what's that got to do with anything here??

    I certainly dont deny evolution.
    I do. Or at least what evoloutinists call macro-evoloution. And the reson I deny it is not because Islam is incompatible or anything, because there are many Muslim evoloutinists who show that Islam is compatible with evoloution.
    Rather, I deny it on a logical basis.
    there are numerous fossils found of other hominids
    To me, half of these 'hominids' are clearly human and the others are clearly ape.

    Homo Erectus= human
    Homo Neanderthalis = human
    Homo Habilis= ape

    After studying the inner ear structure of these hominids, some of them were proven to not be able to walk upright at all.

    Also, the differences that evoloutinists try to pull out between skeletal remains of 'hominids' are no greater than differences we find between different ethnicities.

    You guys can try to convince me about evoloution. I doubt it will happen.

    Peace

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    Ansar,

    So do you reject science?
    No. I reject some parts of the theory of evolution. I don't believe in Millions of years. I was designed not evolved for the most part. My uncle is not a monkey. I also believe God created everything in 6 days.

    What is your opinion on the scientific miracles in Islam?
    Why don't you give me some verses so that I can look at them. I know I have seen them before.

    To me, half of these 'hominids' are clearly human and the others are clearly ape.

    Homo Erectus= human
    Homo Neanderthalis = human
    Homo Habilis= ape

    After studying the inner ear structure of these hominids, some of them were proven to not be able to walk upright at all.

    Also, the differences that evoloutinists try to pull out between skeletal remains of 'hominids' are no greater than differences we find between different ethnicities.

    You guys can try to convince me about evoloution. I doubt it will happen.
    What's this you don't believe in evolution? Good for you.

    mule

  14. #14
    Administrator Ratatosk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    Salam,

    Quote Originally Posted by mule
    My uncle is not a monkey.
    Humans did indeed not evolve from monkeys. Rather, monkeys and humans have a common ancestor.

    Regards,
    think

  15. #15
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: Bible and Science

    Salaam Mule,
    I have no issue if you reject parts of the theory of evoloution. But the creation of the universe in 6 days is impossible. That is a fact.

    So what is your opinion on the issues I mentioned at the start of the thread?

    Plants before Sun, etc.

    Don't you find it difficult to believe in a religion that denies established science?

    Why don't you give me some verses so that I can look at them. I know I have seen them before.
    Oh boy. There's a ton.
    Here's a big list:
    http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html

    I will start with a few:
    God supported His last Prophet Muhammad* with many miracles and much evidence which proved that he is a true Prophet sent by God.* Also, God supported His last revealed book, the Holy Quran, with many miracles that prove that this Quran is the literal word of God, revealed by Him, and that it was not authored by any human being. This chapter discusses some of this evidence.


    (1) The Scientific Miracles
    in the Holy Quran


    The Quran is the literal word of God, which He revealed to His Prophet Muhammad* through the Angel Gabriel.* It was memorized by Muhammad*, who then dictated it to his Companions.* They, in turn, memorized it, wrote it down, and reviewed it with the Prophet Muhammad*.* Moreover, the Prophet Muhammad* reviewed the Quran with the Angel Gabriel once each year and twice in the last year of his life.* From the time the Quran was revealed, until this day, there has always been a huge number of Muslims who have memorized all of the Quran, letter by letter.* Some of them have even been able to memorize all of the Quran by the age of ten.* Not one letter of the Quran has been changed over the centuries.


    The Quran, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago, mentioned facts only recently discovered or proven by scientists.* This proves without doubt that the Quran must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him to the Prophet Muhammad*, and that the Quran was not authored by Muhammad* or by any other human being.* This also proves that Muhammad* is truly a prophet sent by God.* It is beyond reason that anyone fourteen hundred years ago would have known these facts discovered or proven only recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated scientific methods.* Some examples follow.
    The Quran on the Origin of the Universe:



    The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of ‘smoke’ (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition).1* This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology.* Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that ‘smoke’ (see figures 10 and 11).
    *









    Figure 10: A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the ‘smoke’ that was the origin of the whole universe. (The Space Atlas, Heather and Henbest, p. 50.)











    Figure 11: The Lagoon nebula is a cloud of gas and dust, about 60 light years in diameter.* It is excited by the ultraviolet radiation of the hot stars that have recently formed within its bulk. (Horizons, Exploring the Universe, Seeds, plate 9, from Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy, Inc.)* (Click on the image to enlarge it.)



    The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that ‘smoke’ material.* God has said in the Quran:


    *Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...* (Quran, 41:11)


    Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity.* Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran:


    *Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?...* (Quran, 21:30)


    Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists.* He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany.* He said: “Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.”2* (To view the RealPlayer video of this comment click here ).* Also he said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin.”3* (View the RealPlayer video of this comment ).
    The Quran on the Cerebrum:



    God has said in the Quran about one of the evil unbelievers who forbade the Prophet Muhammad* from praying at the Kaaba:



    *No!* If he does not stop, We will take him by the naseyah (front of the head), a lying, sinful naseyah (front of the head)!* (Quran, 96:15-16)


    Why did the Quran describe the front of the head as being lying and sinful?* Why didn’t the Quran say that the person was lying and sinful?* What is the relationship between the front of the head and lying and sinfulness?


    If we look into the skull at the front of the head, we will find the prefrontal area of the cerebrum (see figure 12).* What does physiology tell us about the function of this area?* A book entitled Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology says about this area, “The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of the frontal lobes, the prefrontal area. This is a region of association cortex...”1* Also the book says, “In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression....”2








    Figure 12: Functional regions of the left hemisphere of the cerebral cortex.* The prefrontal area is located at the front of the cerebral cortex. (Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology, Seeley and others, p. 210.)* (Click on the image to enlarge it.)



    So, this area of the cerebrum is responsible for planning, motivating, and initiating good and sinful behavior and is responsible for the telling of lies and the speaking of truth.* Thus, it is proper to describe the front of the head as lying and sinful when someone lies or commits a sin, as the Quran has said, “...A lying, sinful naseyah (front of the head)!”


    Scientists have only discovered these functions of the prefrontal area in the last sixty years, according to Professor Keith L. Moore.3
    E) The Quran on Seas and Rivers:



    Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them.* This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.1* For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water.* When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics.* The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth2 (see figure 13).
    *









    Figure 13: The Mediterranean sea water as it enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics, because of the barrier that distinguishes between them.* Temperatures are in degrees Celsius (C°). (Marine Geology, Kuenen, p. 43, with a slight enhancement.)* (Click on the image to enlarge it.)



    Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.


    The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress.* God has said:


    *He has set free the two seas meeting together.* There is a barrier between them.* They do not transgress.* (Quran, 55:19-20)


    But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier.* God has said in the Quran:


    *He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter.* And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition.* (Quran, 25:53)


    One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?


    Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet.* It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.”3* This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water4 (see figure 14).








    Figure 14: Longitudinal section showing salinity (parts per thousand ‰) in an estuary.* We can see here the partition (zone of separation) between the fresh and the salt water. (Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, p. 301, with a slight enhancement.)* (Click on the image to enlarge it.)



    This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc.* The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea.* Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).
    Peace

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