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Thread: what is the Qur'anic support

  1. #16
    (THOAT-wob-lur MAN-grove)
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    2:286 "Allah tasketh not a soul beyond its scope. For it (is only) that which it hath earned, and against it (only) that which it hath deserved. Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget, or miss the mark! Our Lord! Lay not on us such a burden as thou didst lay on those before us! Our Lord! Impose not on us that which we have not the strength to bear! Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us, Thou, our Protector, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk."

    This verse comes in two sections. First, Allah directly reveals:

    "Allah tasketh not a soul beyond its scope. For it (is only) that which it hath earned, and against it (only) that which it hath deserved."

    Then either Gabriel (an angel, and therefore someone who always speaks God's will) or Muhammad (God's infallible and inspired messenger, peace be on him) adds:

    "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget, or miss the mark! Our Lord! Lay not on us such a burden as thou didst lay on those before us! Our Lord! Impose not on us that which we have not the strength to bear! Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us, Thou, our Protector, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk."

    The shift in perspective should make it clear that these are two different statements being made in what ended up being numbered, for some reason, as a single verse.

    As for 7:42, the context of it only reinforces what I'm talking about, as you can see:

    007.040 Lo! they who deny Our revelations and scorn them, for them the gates of heaven will nor be opened not will they enter the Garden until the camel goeth through the needle's eye. Thus do We requite the guilty.
    007.041 Theirs will be a bed of hell, and over them coverings (of hell). Thus do We requite wrong-doers.
    007.042 But (as for) those who believe and do good works - We tax not any soul beyond its scope - Such are rightful owners of the Garden. They abide therein.
    007.043 And We remove whatever rancour may be in their hearts. Rivers flow beneath them. And they say: The praise to Allah, Who hath guided us to this. We could not truly have been led aright if Allah had not guided us. Verily the messengers of our Lord did bring the Truth. And it is cried unto them: This is the Garden. Ye inherit it for what ye used to do.
    007.044 And the dwellers of the Garden cry unto the dwellers of the Fire: We have found that which our Lord promised us (to be) the Truth. Have ye (too) found that which your Lord promised the Truth ? They say: Yea, verily. And a crier in between them crieth: The curse of Allah is on evil-doers,
    007.045 Who debar (men) from the path of Allah and would have it crooked, and who are disbelievers in the Last Day.

    Very clearly, not all disbelievers are of the kind being spoken of here.

    http://www.freewebs.com/ziggyzag

    Edited by - Yahya on 03/23/2004 22:54:07

  2. #17

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    Magnet, i'm not afflicted with RSS Ideology though thank you for the concern. honestly, I found the reasoning behind the answer to be beyond my ability to comprehend, however, thank you for the link as the other questions are also things which have crossed my mind.
    ~compassionately~ Vajra
    I found it hard to gather, why you brought up the subject of RSS ideology until I read the subject line of the page. It was never my intention to point you towards that page for this reason, I just read that page some time ago and was myself enlightened by the answers.Some of them are very logical, sane and non-apologetic. I would send an e mail to the webmaster to change the title of the page though, for it's meant as much for Muslims as for the Non_muslims.

    Also, If things are beyond our comprehension now, let's not get disheartened.
    Just pray to God (Atheists are at a loss here slightly) for the guidance, for no one can get the Right guidance unless God guides him from his mercy. God will only guide him if the desire for guidance is sincere.

    Read a very good story..rather long but do read it in your free time. A perfect story about God's guidance.

    I hope it's true story though and not mere propaganda.

    http://speed.city-net.com/~alimhaq/text/conversion.htm

    Cheers for now!



    Edited by - Magnet on 03/24/2004 11:58:10

  3. #18
    Diamond Thunderbolt Vajradhara's Avatar
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    Salaam Magnet,

    thank you for the post.

    well... i'm glad that wasn't your intention, however, it's best to be clear about such things, in my opinion

    i understood the Qur'anic verse pretty well, i think (for it being in English) however, it was the explanation by the commentator that made no sense to me. for those that are interested, here is the question and answer:

    Question 8: If according to Islam, Allah has already sealed the hearts of the Kuffaar i.e. non-Muslims, then why are they to be blamed for not accepting Islam?

    Answer 8: Allah has sealed the hearts of those who are continuously bent on rejecting the truth Allah (swt) mentions in Surah Al Baqarah chapter 2 verses 6 and 7 “As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them Whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.” Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).” [Al-Quran 2:6-7]

    the commentator then explains this in this fashion:

    These verses do not refer to common Kuffar who reject faith. The Arabic words used are 'al-lazina kafaroo', those who are bent on rejecting the truth. It will not make any difference to such people whether you warn them or not, they will not believe. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil. It is not because Allah has set a seal on their hearts that these kuffar do not understand and believe, but it is the vice-versa. It is because these kuffar are bent on rejecting the truth and whether you warn them or not they will not believe, that Allah has set a seal on their hearts. Therefore Allah is not to blame, but these kuffaar who are bent on rejecting the faith are responsible. The Quranic reference to Heart as centre of emotion and intelligence is only figurative. It is in keeping with Arabic idiom
    rather than functions attributed by the modern science

    Suppose an experienced teacher, before the final examinations, predicts that a particular student will fail in the exams, since the student is very mischievous, not attentive in class and does not do his homework. If after the student appears for the examination, he fails, who is to be blamed for the student failing: the teacher or the student? Just because the teacher predicted, it does not mean that the teacher is to be blamed but the student himself is responsible for his failure.

    Similarly Allah (swt) knows in advance that there are some people who are bent on rejecting the faith and Allah has put a seal on their hearts. Thus these non-Muslims themselves are responsible for rejecting the faith and not Allah (swt).


    my ability to understand this explanation lies near the beginning, in this bit here:

    Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil. It is not because Allah has set a seal on their hearts that these kuffar do not understand and believe, but it is the vice-versa. It is because these kuffar are bent on rejecting the truth and whether you warn them or not they will not believe, that Allah has set a seal on their hearts.

    so.. i think that my inability to understand an answer like this lies in my, admittedly, limited understanding of God from the Islamic perspective. i'm more versed in the Judeo/Christian version, by way of reference.

    the answer provided seems to be quite circular and i just don't understand. that's ok though... i'm not supposed to understand everything

    as an aside... if there is a Creator Deity and said Deity is from the Semetic traditons, i hope that it's YHWY or Allah and not Jehova.

    ~compassionately~

  4. #19
    Diamond Thunderbolt Vajradhara's Avatar
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    Salaam Yahya,

    i see what you are saying and i see how it's referencing a type of disbeliever that mocks, derides or otherwise belittles Islam and Muslims.

    however... it also seems to say pretty clearly that "good works" and "belief" are hand in hand for Muslims. from what i've found of all the references to "good works" are linked with believers and not with non-believers. which makes me unsure of the actual position that the Qur'an takes with non-believers that aren't mockers but do perform good works for the benefit of all beings.

    does that make sense?



    ~compassionately~

  5. #20
    Senior Member palm's Avatar
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    if someone purposefully rejects the truth ie ISLAM after it has been revealed to him/her all his good deeds that he/she does will be of no benefit to him in the hereafter.

    ***The Meaning of The Holy Qur'an.

    Surah:3. Al-'Imran. verse 85
    85.If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to God), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

    *** Surah:18. Al-Kahf. verse 101-107
    101.(Unbelievers) whose eyes had been under a veil from remembrance of Me, and who had been unable even to hear.

    102.Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.

    103.Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-

    104."Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"

    105.They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight.

    106.That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.

    107.As to those who believe and work righteous deeds, they have, for their entertainment, the Gardens of Paradise,

    Translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.


    Edited by - palm on 03/26/2004 10:52:07

  6. #21
    Diamond Thunderbolt Vajradhara's Avatar
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    Salaam Palm,

    thank you for the post.

    yes, that's exactly what i was looking for and thank you for being able to understand my poorly worded question!

    i'm going to have to rethink my position based on this information so i may not be around for a few days.



    ~compassionately~

  7. #22
    Senior Member palm's Avatar
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    Salam Vajradhara
    Here are some more Qur`anic verses(ayats)


    Chapter 3 Al-Imran,(Yusuf Ali translation)

    003.100
    O ye who believe! If ye listen to a faction among the People of the Book, they would (indeed) render you apostates after ye have believed!

    003.101
    And how would ye deny Faith while unto you are rehearsed the Signs of Allah, and among you Lives the Messenger? Whoever holds firmly to Allah will be shown a way that is straight


    003.102
    O ye who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam.

    003.105
    Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving Clear Signs: For them is a dreadful penalty,-


    003.106
    On the Day when some faces will be (lit up with) white, and some faces will be (in the gloom of) black: To those whose faces will be black, (will be said): "Did ye reject Faith after accepting it? Taste then the penalty for rejecting Faith."


    003.107
    But those whose faces will be (lit with) white,- they will be in (the light of) Allah's mercy: therein to dwell (for ever)


    003.116
    Those who reject Faith,- neither their possessions nor their (numerous) progeny will avail them aught against Allah: They will be companions of the Fire,-dwelling therein (for ever).

    003.117
    What they spend in the life of this (material) world May be likened to a wind which brings a nipping frost: It strikes and destroys the harvest of men who have wronged their own souls: it is not Allah that hath wronged them, but they wrong themselves.

    Edited by - palm on 03/27/2004 02:27:59

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