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Thread: what is the Qur'anic support

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    Diamond Thunderbolt Vajradhara's Avatar
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    Default what is the Qur'anic support

    Salaam all,

    another poster on this forum (Yahya) has previously posted this statement:

    "there are 4 things that gets one to Heaven in Islam, belief in God, (b) belief in the hereafter, (c) belief in Judgment Day, and (d) good works. honest disbelief in a, b, and c will not be punished, only deliberate rejection."

    this is consistent with what i've had explained to me as well.

    my question is thus: do these things have support in the Qur'an directly? if so, would someone be so kind as to post the related Surahs or Ayats?



    ~compassionately~

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    "there are 4 things that gets one to Heaven in Islam, belief in God, (b) belief in the hereafter, (c) belief in Judgment Day, and (d) good works. honest disbelief in a, b, and c will not be punished, only deliberate rejection."

    The first part is covered in surat baqarah, verse 62 (Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve), surat maidah, verse 69 (those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve) and the second point is given in surat ahzaab, verse 5 (And there is no sin for you in the mistakes that ye make unintentionally, but what your hearts purpose (that will be a sin for you).).

    i think you should also see this answer by moiz amjad which will give you some more information:

    http://www.understanding-islam.org/r...uestion&qid=23

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    Koran 103:1-3, 2:62, 2:286, 7:42.

    http://www.freewebs.com/ziggyzag

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    Salaam all,

    thank you for the responses to my query, it's appreciated.

    the only thing that i didn't find in the references were Qur'anic support for the idea that only deliberate rejection is what will be punished. perhaps i've overlooked it?



    ~compassionately~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vajradhara View Post
    the only thing that i didn't find in the references were Qur'anic support for the idea that only deliberate rejection is what will be punished. perhaps i've overlooked it?
    The word Kafir implies it.

    May Peace be with you.

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    Salam,

    The word “Kaafir” does indeed imply it. It is often translated as “Unbelievers”, “Disbelievers” or “Rejecters”. I prefer “rejecters” and I also like Muhammad Asad’s way of putting it as “Those who are bent on denying the truth”. It simply means “those who deny the truth intentionally”. I think the following verses should help to clarify that only what is done wrong intentionally will be punished:

    “Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing.” 2:225


    “And there is no sin for you in the mistakes that you make unintentionally, but what your hearts purpose (that will be a sin for you). Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” 33:5

    “Allah does not impose upon any soul a duty but to the extent of its ability;” 2:286


    “Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him.” 65:7


    “No burden do We place on any soul, but that which it can bear” 6:152

    Also take note of the continuous pleas made by the Qur’an for the people to use their reasoning faculty. Since the rejecters refused to accept anything that contradicted the way of their forefathers; they are compared to animals (in this regard) because they arrogantly refused to use what is one of the major differences between us and animals (our intellect). Let me give just one example:

    “When it is said to them, “Follow the commands that Allah has sent down,” they reply, “We will follow only what we found our forefathers practising.” Well, will they go on following their forefathers even though they did not use common sense and did not find the right way? The mental condition of those who did not find the way of Allah may be likened to that of the cattle whom the shepherd calls but they hear nothing except the shouts of sounds and cries. They are deaf, they are dumb, they are blind; therefore they do not understand anything.” S 2:170-171

    Thus, the most important thing is that we make use of what God has bestowed on us (our intellect). Wherever this leads us to, as long as it was through a sincere (unbiased) search for the truth; it will be acceptable in the sight of God.


    This is my understanding of it. I hope I’ve been of some help,

    Peace.

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    I think you might be interested in this one too:

    And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allah, lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge. Thus We have made them fair-seeming to each people its own doings; then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do.
    (Surah 6:108)




    Edited by - IronEagle on 03/18/2004 22:53:58

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    Salaam all,

    thank you all for the replies. they are very helpful.

    Kafir, it seems, has various definitions depending on whom one is speaking with. does this represent a doctrinal difference of opinion on the nature of a Kafir or is this simply a lingusitic difference?

    as an aside... Buddha as well instructed his students not to accept a tradition simply because it was the tradition of their parents or was popular or was spoken of eloquently et al. there are similiarites between our traditions



    ~compassionately~

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    7:42 But (as for) those who believe and do good works--We tax not any soul beyond its scope--Such are rightful owners of the Garden. They abide therein.

    There the stipulation to the reward for faith that God won't demand what you can't give (psychologically as well as anything else).

    http://www.freewebs.com/ziggyzag

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    Salaam yahya,

    thank you for the post.

    that Ayat would lead me to believe that if you are a believer and do good works... but not if you don't believe and do good works.

    does that make sense?

    ~compassionately~

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    The Koran is always talking about how God gave us our eyes and ears for a reason and how we should reflect on His creation in order to know He's there. Some people are too lazy to do this, and many, many, many more disbelieve in God so they can make fun of believers and feel smug. I talk to them ALL the time. Look at the context of most of the Koranic passages which talk about unbelievers and you'll see that the people in question are proud and always mocking believers. Go to any atheism message board and you'll see a ton of them. There are also disbelievers who disbelieve because of an honest mistake or mistakes in their reasoning, or something psychological, or both. In their cases, it is useful to remember that God does not punish you for making mistakes (Koran 2:286) and does not require of any soul more than it can give (Koran 7:42).

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    SALAM VAJRADHARA
    The ayat that you mentioned makes perfect sense. If you believe in ALLAH(GOD) and do things to please HIM, we will be awarded. But if we do not belive in HIM at all rather we have our own gods etc. then we should be hoping for our awards from them. Its the intention that matters. If we do deeds for someone else or just to show off we get nothing put punishment.


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    "that Ayat would lead me to believe that if you are a believer and do good works... but not if you don't believe and do good works."

    I think it looks confusing to you as it seems believer (and unbeliever) + good works are the same.

    First, not all believers and unbelievers are the same in the first place.

    IMO, it simply means God will reward your any act that deserves to be rewarded, doesn't matter if you believe in Him or not.

    You can look at the equation like this
    Ranking = Faith + good works

    Faith: very subjective (ie not so easy to figure out).
    Good works: which is objective and everybody can make sense of it.

    As for the differences in unbeliever, think the following examples will clear this up.

    <font color=orange>
    I've a friend who is athiests, and his reason to reject God is that the theory is too authorative. He just doesn’t like to obey the restrictions given by God like drinking, smoking, gambling, etc… (even though if I prove a clear harm in them).

    Another friend is also atheist, but his arguments are totally different. His discussions are basically based on intellect and intelligent reasoning.
    </font>







    Edited by - IronEagle on 03/23/2004 17:48:41

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    Vajradhra: Salaam all,
    thank you for the responses to my query, it's appreciated.
    the only thing that i didn't find in the references were Qur'anic support for the idea that only deliberate rejection is what will be punished. perhaps i've overlooked it?
    ~compassionately~
    Hi Vajradhara
    Perhaps answer to Question No 8 on the link that I provide below, might come near to the point that you persumably wish to seek.

    http://www.guidedones.com/issues/dia...aqindia102.htm

    Rgds


    Edited by - Magnet on 03/23/2004 18:15:11

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    Salaam all,

    thank you all for your responses.

    IronEagle, actually, i think that the two are different... i.e. a believer that does good works is different from a non-believer that does good works.

    from the Ayat that was referenced, it would seem to be confined to believers that do good works and wouldn't include non-believers that do good works.

    Palm, what if you don't have any gods but still do good works? not for the benefit of yourself or to show off or display pride or hubris, but to help those that are downtrodden and suffering?

    Yahya, i see what you are saying. yes, there are many people for whom faith is an issue.. even if it doesn't require a belief in God. i've read the referenced Surahs in the Qur'an that Allah won't burden a soul with more than it can handle, however, it would appear that most of these are in context with other ayats that limit this to Muslims.

    Magnet, i'm not afflicted with RSS Ideology though thank you for the concern. honestly, i found the reasoning behind the answer to be beyond my ability to comprehend, however, thank you for the link as the other questions are also things which have crossed my mind.



    ~compassionately~

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