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Thread: why i am not a salafi

  1. #1
    Member Marat786@hotmail.com's Avatar
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    Default why i am not a salafi

    Doctrine About Allah

    Allah as a human being

    1. Salafis are taught by their theologians that Allah is a human being with limits.

    Please read a statement from Mr. Ibn Baz (1920-1999), former Mufti of the Salafi sect:

    Allah is above limits that humans know, but He has limits that only He knows.

    [al-`Aqidah Tahaawiyyah Bi-Ta`liq, p. 12]

    That is not the Lord of the Muslims, as Allah SWT has told us,

    There is no thing like Him, and He is the All Hearing, the All Seeing.

    [Surat ush-Shura, ayah 11]

    Imaam Ali ibn Abi Taalib RAA told us,

    Indeed, Allah the Exalted created the Throne as a manifestation of His Power and not a place for His Essence. He was in the beginning, while there was no place or time and He is now as He ever was.

    [Al-Farq bain al-Firaq, p. 41].

    2. Salafis are taught by their theologians that Allah sits on a chair in each heaven.

    Haafiz al-Hakami (1924-1958), a former head teacher at the Salafi colleges, has said,

    Indeed Allah descends to the lowest sky and in each sky He has a Kursi (chair), so when he comes down to the lowest sky, He sits on His Kursi (chair)………..then when the morning comes, He ascends and elevates and goes and sits on His Kursi (chair).

    [Ma`aarij ul-Qubul, V. 1, p. 256]

    The Almighty over all says of Himself,

    Indeed, that is your Lord, Allah, who created the skies and the Earth in six days and He is above the Throne.

    [Surat ul-A`raaf (7), ayah. 54]

    Please notice how there is no mention of any human attributes whatsoever as Allah is Exalted far above being a human being and is not human.

    3. Salafis are taught by their theologians that Allah has literal organs and an ‘exalted body.’ Ibn Baz has said,

    To say that Allah does not have a body, pupils, ear drums and ear lobes, tongue, and larynx is not the position of Muslim Orthodoxy.

    [At-Tanbihaat (Warnings), p. 22]

    All that could be said to such blasphemy is:

    And they thought of Allah other than the truth, the thought of the Days of Ignorance.

    [Surah Aali `Imraan (3), ayah 154]

    They think evil of Allah and for them is a severe torment.

    [Surat ul-Fath (48), ayah 6]

    Doctrines towards other Muslims

    Most Muslims are not Muslims but pagans/deviants

    4. Salafis have been taught by their leaders that verses in the Qur’an which speak about the kuffar can also be applied to believing Muslims. .

    Mr. Muhammad Jameel Zeeno explains how verses in the Qur’an about kuffar are easily applicable to Muslims,

    And these ayaat about kuffar, even if they are specifically about the kuffar, then indeed they are an established proof against anyone bearing their characteristics and attributes claiming Islam and going to war against those who call to belief in the uniqueness of Allah.

    [Minhaaj al-Firqat un-Naajiyah (The Methodology of the Safe Sect), pgs. 39-40]

    The great Sahaabi Ibn `Umar RAA has said about those who apply verses about the kuffar to believing Muslims,

    They are the worst of Allah’s creatures and these people took some verses that had been revealed concerning the kuffar (unbelievers) and interpreted them as describing the mu’minin (believers).

    [Sahih ul-Bukhaari, V. 9, p. 50]

    5. Salafis have been taught by their scholars that most Muslims today have not only become pagans, but they are like the Jews and Christians in the major kufr and shirk, which makes them complete kuffar

    Muhammad Ismaa`il as-San`aani (1688-1768) says about most Muslims,

    They don’t even know the reality of Islam or the actual nature of the Uniqueness of Allah, so indeed they are kuffar absolutely and without any restriction.

    [Tathir ul-Itiqaad `an adraan il-Ilhaad (Purifying the Creed from the Filth of Desecration), p. 36]

    The Prophet Muhammad SAW has said,

    Indeed, the Children of Israel will split into 71 sects and this Ummah will have one more sect than them, all in the Fire except as-Sawaad al-A`zam (the vast majority of people of the Muslims).

    [Majma` az-Zawaa’id, V. 1, pg 179, al-Haakim in al-Mustadrak, V. 4, pg 430 al-Baihaqi in al-Madkhal, pgs. 34 and 35, Tarikh Baghdaad, V. 13, pgs. 307 and 311 and al-Faqih wal-Mutafaqqih, V. 1, pgs. 179 and 180. Also taken from al-I`tisaam, V. 2, pgs. 458+; Faid ul-Qaadir, V. 5, p. 347 and classed hasan]

    The Sahaabi Ibn `Abbas RAA referred to all upright Muslims in his time as, “Ahl us-Sunna,” which in English means, Muslim Orthodoxy.

    [Sahih Muslim, V. 1, Muqaddamah (introduction)]

    Are you a Salafi who is actually questioning his/her faith and would like advice/information?

    Contact Details:
    SOCSS Organisation can
    be contacted at:

    Website: www.htspub.com
    E-Mail: htspub@yahoo.co.uk

    © SOCSS Publications 2004
    my favourate Islamic websites are www.zaytuna.org www.htspub.com www.alhabibali.org/english/

  2. #2
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Like their are some muslims who do not understading Islam, in the same way people do not understand the term salafi. The salafi are those who stick to the beliefs of the pios predesecors (salaf).

    So every muslim should be amongst those who follow the salaf.
    Ahlus-Sunnah (those who follow the sunnah) = Salafi (those who follow the sunnah of Muhammad saws and His companions)

    Aqeeda of Salaf:
    http://www.allaahuakbar.net/aqeedah/...h_of_salaf.htm

    You have been misquoting many scholars. Keep in mind that translation to English loses much meaning.

    You have been trying to prove that Salafi compare Allah to His Creation.
    One of the most important principles of salafi aqeeda is that Allah is unlike His creation!

    Ibn Baaz and Uthaymeen:
    We believe that "there is nothing whatever like unto Him, He is the All-hearing, the All-seeing. To Him belongs the keys of the Heavens and the Earth. He enlarges and restricts provisions to whom He wills. Surely He has knowledge of everything" (42:11-12).

    Whe I first saw the title of this thread it reminded me of the Anti-Islam book by Ibn Warraq, entitled "Why I am not a Muslim". I know you did not want to convey a similar message.

    In short, your information on Salafi belief is flawed.
    http://www.allaahuakbar.net/
    I follow the Sunnah and the Salaf.
    Salaam

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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    this is totally biased...whoever gave you this info has blown everything out of proportion..sheikh abdul aziz bin baz Rahimullah has passed away it looks like his words have been changed or misunderstood ..the salafis jus dont follow one madhab..rather they..as one brother has said..follow the salafus saalih..this include imam abu hanifah imam shafi imam ahmed and imam malik
    the name says it all :sunglasse

  4. #4
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Yes, it seems that when our scholars pass away, there words are manipulated. In short, Shaykh Ibn Baaz never preached the blasphemy you accuse him of.

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    Member Marat786@hotmail.com's Avatar
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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Salam dear brothers, well the references of the texts are there , if you think the above is unjust translations and misquoted remarks then please understand as a Muslim you now bear the burden of doing justice and going and checking the references yourself and offering an accurate translation.

    for further discussion on these topics my brother in Islam abu Jafar al Hanbali wlecomes you to www.htspub.com where many 'salafis' have had many fruitfull discussions and have gained a better understanding of Islam, traditional Islam.
    my favourate Islamic websites are www.zaytuna.org www.htspub.com www.alhabibali.org/english/

  6. #6
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Remember that regardless of what people say, every muslim should be a follower of the Sunnah, the Sahaba, and the rest of the pious salaf. We are sunni and salafi.

    Concerning the scholars, there are many books you can read to understand their true teachings. The only links I can provide for you at this point in time are:

    http://www.allaahuakbar.net/scholars...yyah/index.htm
    http://www.allaahuakbar.net/scholars/ibn_baaz/index.htm

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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Salam brother,

    im very aware of that website but that is besides the point,
    that site very well may not publish what is written in the texts quoted, my advice is to go to the texts yourself and see for yourself and may Allah manifest the truth even if it is against me.
    my favourate Islamic websites are www.zaytuna.org www.htspub.com www.alhabibali.org/english/

  8. #8
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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    God spoke to man in man's language. God talked about God's existence and oneness; moreover there are expressions that lead us to know some of His attributes. Hence discussion on essence and attributes of God comes into account for Muslims. Salafis addressed the issue too.

    The following two points are very important to keep in mind.

    Point 1. Every language of man has limitations. It is not possible to describe exactly something that is beyond the grasp of human intellect. Essence and attributes of God is the most difficult issue for man to address properly.

    Point 2. In every language, a particular word that is used to expresses a physical thing may also have allegorical meaning. People generally know those meanings too. It is understood from the context of the sentence.

    Let us now have an example. It is possible for someone to say, “You can not get yourself out of the grip of justice, justice has a long arm”. What does this proposition mean? What is the meaning of ‘grip’ and ‘arm’ here? We all know that. So no one shall ask the question whether justice has an ‘arm’ or a ‘grip’ in literal sense. No one is to say that justice has a ‘grip’ and an ‘arm’, but those are not like ours. Here ‘arm’ and ‘grip’ do not have the literal meaning; yet these words definitely mean something.

    Salfis say that God has Face, Arm, Chair to sit etc. but these are not like anything created. They strongly reject any allegorical meaning of these and as God is unlike any other thing and He is flawless, they say at the same time that the real meaning of these is out of our reach. Since the Koran used these words, they emphasis on not to have any conjectural meaning of it.

    Let us have an example. Salafis say God has hand, but unlike that of ours or anything we can imagine. But hand also has allegorical meaning in our language. Hand can very legitimately mean power, because we use it to mean that.

    Do we have any problem to apply Point 2 regarding hand of God?

    If we want to say anything regarding power of God, we have no other way except to stick to Point 1.

    Salafis are very literal in interpreting text of Koran and Hadith, which seems to me very naive. They proposed many good things, protested against many bad beliefs that are prevalent in Muslim world. But their adherence to such extreme literalism shall hinder progressive thinking for Muslims.

    Many Muslims of our time have many bad beliefs that are against the real teaching of the Koran regarding Monotheism. It has befallen on us due to our ignorance. But Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab from Najd declared, in his book ‘Kashf al-Shubhat’, them as Kafirs and their blood and property as Halal.

    Do the Salafis have the same view?

    To me, this view is very disgusting and reminds me of the stupid but dangerous fanaticism of the Khwarijites of Caliph Ali's time.
    Last edited by abeer_xyz; 28th November 2004 at 11:59.

  9. #9
    Member Marat786@hotmail.com's Avatar
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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Our Beloved Prophet [s] said:

    My Ummah will never agree upon error.

    but yet the followers of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab and Abdul himself believe that the great majoirty of Muslims are upon shirk.

    Who do we believe? the Prophet [s] or Ibn Abdul wahab?

    Our beloved Prophet [s] said:

    The satan has lost all hope of being worshipped in Arabia.

    but yet Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab marched into Arabia with the saudi army and slaughtered many Muslims in Mecca and Madinah by finding justification through the false accusation of shirk, accusing them of worshipping shaytaan.

    Who do we believe? the Prophet [s] or Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab?

    when we recite the kalimah are we talking about the same Muhmmad? Muhammad Ibn Abdullah or Muhammad Ibn Abdul wahab?

    is it right to encourage people to emigrate to najd from Makkah and Madinah and then on top of that rename najd Dar al Mumineen?

    the Prophet [s] said: i do not fear for my Ummah shirk but i fear they will compete with each other in dunya.
    my favourate Islamic websites are www.zaytuna.org www.htspub.com www.alhabibali.org/english/

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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    my favourate Islamic websites are www.zaytuna.org www.htspub.com www.alhabibali.org/english/
    my favourate Islamic websites are www.zaytuna.org www.htspub.com www.alhabibali.org/english/

  12. #12
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Quote Originally Posted by Marat786@hotmail.com
    Our Beloved Prophet [s] said:

    My Ummah will never agree upon error.

    but yet the followers of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab and Abdul himself believe that the great majoirty of Muslims are upon shirk.

    Who do we believe? the Prophet [s] or Ibn Abdul wahab?
    The ummah is the WHOLE. EVERYONE. The Prophet saws, was saying that even if the majority is in error, the ENTIRE UMMAH can never be in error. He also said that the majority of muslims will become weak, like the froth on the waves.

    Our beloved Prophet [s] said:

    The satan has lost all hope of being worshipped in Arabia.

    but yet Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab marched into Arabia with the saudi army and slaughtered many Muslims in Mecca and Madinah by finding justification through the false accusation of shirk, accusing them of worshipping shaytaan.

    Who do we believe? the Prophet [s] or Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab?
    First, I would like the source on the 'slaughtering' as I have not heard of it. Second, If satan has lost HOPE, that does not mean that it is impossible.

    Anyway, I am not interested in defending scholars. I am just reminding everyone, that like Islam is not defined by muslims, the path of the salaf/sahaba are not defined by salafis. And the Sunnah of Rasullah saws, is not defined by sunnis. And his sayings and Hadith are not defined by Ahlul Hadith.

    when we recite the kalimah are we talking about the same Muhmmad? Muhammad Ibn Abdullah or Muhammad Ibn Abdul wahab?
    I have yet to see a single group that refers to MUHAMMAD IBN ABDUL WAHAB in their kalmah.

    It is only Muhammad ibn Abdullah, Rasullah, that we refer to in our Kalmah.

    is it right to encourage people to emigrate to najd from Makkah and Madinah and then on top of that rename najd Dar al Mumineen?
    I have nothing to say concerning this. I am not sure what it has to do with anything.

    Peace Br. Marat.

  13. #13
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Do u like my new thread?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Do we have to 'follow' every sahabi?

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    Default Re: why i am not a salafi

    Salam All,

    With no disrespect intended all I see is Muslims lacking even the basic understanding of Islam yet the first thing they do is attack one another. These sectarian issues are the most absurd things I've heard. When are people going to learn to stop hating? We really find the dumbest things to divide over. Who knows may we can divide further based on how we breathe. Muslims will continue to wallow in a cesspool of division and hatered. Learn the basics, follow it with your heart, mind and soul and when you disagree with something say it in the right way but don't condemn and divide. You can disagree but don't disgrace...yourselves or those who are supposed to be your brothers and sisters.

    Regards

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