Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

  1. #1
    Banned Al-Ikhwan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Temporarily at Allim-e-Khuluq
    Posts
    302

    Default STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    ASSALAMOALAIKUM TO ADMINS/MODERATORS AND PPL WHO ARE CONTNOUSLY ARGUING,

    STOP MAKING THREADS ON HOW SUFISM IS A SECT AND AGAINST ISLAM! IT IS A BRANCH OF ISLAM. CLEANSING OF HEART/ TAZKIAH.! I AM AN AHLE-SUNNIH-WUL-JAMAT ->DEOBAND! IT IS NOT A SECT. THERE ARE AT LEAST 6 THREADS ON SUFISM IS A SECT. PPL EVEN MADE A THREAD IN TEH SECRETARIAN ISSUES AND DISCUSSIONS. IT IS NOT A SECT
    PLEASE ADMINS, START LOCKING THIS THREAD. NO ONE HERE LISTENS! EVERY1 ARGUES USELESSLY. WHATS THE USE? ITS HARD TO REALIZE ALL MY EFFORTS ARE BEING WASTED!

    WASSALAM
    MUJAHID
    -----
    p.s. dpnt ask me y i used capital letters, bcuz i really want to shout

  2. #2
    Ansar Al-Haq
    Guest

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    Well you sure got my attantion.

    Ok, I wont.

  3. #3
    Member Marat786@hotmail.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jamia al Karam
    Posts
    45

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    i agree with my Brother Ikhwan , the purification of the heart what is termed and labeled sufi-ism is a science and it is only permissable if its side by side with Quran and Sunnah, however false sufi-ism , dancing and so forth is innovation, but yes sufi-ism does has its place in Islam
    and Ibn taymiyya states in his fatwa al kubra vol 10 and 11 it is a state of Ihsan.

  4. #4
    Guest
    Guest

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    Salaam Al-Ikhwan.

    Its nice to see u trying your hardest to establish what u stand for, and i am with u my dear brother. But i do have one question for u. Why are u wasting ur time with those trying to modernise Islam? Believe me, dear brother, no one will take any notice of your words on a forum. The best way to talk is either in person, or personally i.e. private chat or messenger.

    Oh silly me, i forgot to say Eid Mubarak! Well its a bit late now, so i hope u had an enjoyable one, whichever day u did it on! Lol! Well, see u around my friend.

  5. #5

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    Assalam-u-Alaikum Ikhwan,

    Aren’t you being a bit of a sour grape these days? This is a discussion forum where discussions take place. Beliefs may be questioned, it’s part of it. So of course we must try doing so in the best of manners. But how will anyone ever get his view of truth across if he or she isn’t even allowed to present it on a forum which is there for that very purpose? Don’t you think that it’s this type of attitude which ultimately ends up in the persecution of individuals – where they get harassed because of their views? How though are we going to keep any discussion going if you continuously call things “evil” and tell people to stop posting?

    Sufism in the way we know it was formed after the completion of Islam. Some of the beliefs and practices that we so often find in it are foreign to Islam; discussing them would make an interesting dialog. Why only recently there were complaints made by Haroon about how this forum is boring and how nothing is happening! Are you now supporting the ban of discussions on this topic, Haroon?

    By the way, this is my view on Sufism and I have reason for holding such views. I accept that people may differ and I hold no grudge. I wish you could do the same.

    I await comments

    Peace out!

    P.S. - Late Eid Mubarrak from me too, to all! I hope you had a most blessed day and that you benefit from the blessed month that has just passed!

  6. #6
    Member Marat786@hotmail.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jamia al Karam
    Posts
    45

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    Im sorry hisham Khan i have to agree and disagree

    i agree the term sufi-ism is new but the science is old
    whether a Muslim likes it or not a Muslims mission is to polish His heart so he can return to His Lord with a sound heart, my definition of Sufi-ism is strictly within Qur'an and the sunnah, i do not accept innovations and what you see as sufi-Ism, we are all Muslims yet we get labelled terrorists and i know for fact there are Muslims out there who love to point fingers (im not sayin you hisham) and critise sufi-ism in the same way these people criticise Islam and call us Terrorists.

    polishing the heart and trying to reach a stage of Ihsan is a must for all of us whether you like it or not
    we are Muslims not sufis but this term sufi-ism the science behind it is deep rooted in the Quran and sunnah and it is something we should all try to practice

    id rather call what is termed as sufi-ism as purification of the heart.

    Salams

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    391

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh Haroon
    Salaam Al-Ikhwan.

    Its nice to see u trying your hardest to establish what u stand for, and i am with u my dear brother. But i do have one question for u. Why are u wasting ur time with those trying to modernise Islam? Believe me, dear brother, no one will take any notice of your words on a forum. The best way to talk is either in person, or personally i.e. private chat or messenger.

    -------

    Lol! Well, see u around my friend.
    My friends,
    these discussions are useful to people like me, i.e. new to all of it.
    It gives me new avenues to investigate. Things to think about etc.
    Just as the hate postings by (my guess) Americans at another forum, tipped the balance for me, in favour of surrendering.

    Peace

  8. #8
    Ansar Al-Haq
    Guest

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    We should discuss for the benefit of all.

    If when you say 'sufism' you are referring to Ihsaan, and obtaining Allah's pleasure, this is Ok. But if you are iventing new practices, then this is a sect as br. Marat pointed out.

    My question is, why call it 'sufism' if it is just getting close to Allah swt? This is differentiating yourself from other muslims and makes sufism appear like a sect. Just say that you are attempting to achieve Ihsaan. So am I, but I would never call myself a sufi because in many cases it hints at innovation.

    Salaam

  9. #9

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    ”i agree the term sufi-ism is new but the science is old”
    For me, the title Sufism or Tasawwuf implies certain concepts which they have derived from the writings of scholars who were considered authorities in this field. Therefore the views that I or others give on it will obviously be based on these writings. It has been around for a long time. Thus, If you imply something else by it then you will have to explain what it is.


    ”whether a Muslim likes it or not a Muslims mission is to polish His heart so he can return to His Lord with a sound heart, my definition of Sufi-ism is strictly within Qur'an and the sunnah”
    According to the Qur’an, the Muslim’s duty is to worship Allah (swt) and in doing this he cleanses himself by following the religious instructions that were left for him by God’s chosen Messenger (p). Everything has been left for him to accomplish this task. Nothing is missing. Therefore, nothing apart from this can hold any religious significance for us. Would you agree with this?


    “i do not accept innovations and what you see as sufi-Ism, we are all Muslims yet we get labelled terrorists and i know for fact there are Muslims out there who love to point fingers (im not sayin you hisham) and critise sufi-ism in the same way these people criticise Islam and call us Terrorists.”
    I do appreciate what you are saying. I’ve explained that Sufism has certain implications and therefore if you mean something else by the term I am ready to hear you out.

    “polishing the heart and trying to reach a stage of Ihsan is a must for all of us whether you like it or not”
    I totally agree with you; what I like and dislike is irrelevant. The truth matters. Allow me to explain what I am on about. You can then explain whether this is the Sufism that you have in mind. If it is not, I think you would at least agree that this is the accepted concept for the people because of the writings of those who were considered authorities in this field.

    Many of the famous Sufi beliefs and practices are unfounded in Islam. Let me elaborate. The famous expression of Tawhid in Sufism is “there is nothing but Allah” (Unity of Being/Wahdatu’l-Wujood). However, the Tawhid of Islam which is from the Qur'an (e.g. Surah 47:19) is “There is no god But Allah”.

    According to Sufism the Islamic Tawheed is only that of the ordinary whereas the “Wahdatu’l-Wujood” is that of the elect. This we find from some of the most well known and respected Sufis such as Ibn Arabi:

    “Although, apparently Creation is distinct from the Creator, in reality the Creator is but Creation and Creation is but the Creator. All these are from one reality. Nay, it is but He who is the Only Reality, and it is He Who manifests Himself in all these realities.” (Fasusu’l-Hikam)

    So here is a clear difference in beliefs.

    I explained under the Zikr-i-ilaihi thread:

    “According to Sufis, their Dhikr practices are supposed to bring them closer to their true reality, until they reach it completely. This reality according to them is God Almighty. The mainstream Muslims on the contrary believe that their duty is that of worshipping the Almighty (Surah 51:56). Thus a servant’s relationship with His master is that of a worshipper and the worshipped. The servant seeks to worship God throughout his/her life and thus earn God’s good pleasure and promised reward – an eternal abode in Paradise. Hence, the two beliefs – the Sufi belief and the Muslim belief – are quite different.”

    Keeping the brief foregoing explanation in mind, there are quite a number of differences between Sufism and Islam. For instance:

    A) They have differing beliefs such as in Tawhid (monotheism) and;

    B) They have a differing goal.

    regards

  10. #10
    Ansar Al-Haq
    Guest

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    This sufism is what I would describe as a SECT. If one does not practice these innovations, they should not ascribe themselves to sufism.

  11. #11
    Banned Al-Ikhwan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Temporarily at Allim-e-Khuluq
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    khair mubarak to all,
    again i wouold say. if sufism is a sect how could i join to sects at a time. im a sunnih. and sufi?? im just a sunnih but a sufi. sufism is not a sect. sects are like sunnih shiah salafi, murzai, ahmedi. so on,,,,,

    you being a bit of a sour grape
    let me be one, bcuz iwill insist that if u ppl argue that sufism is a sect. its pointless and has no meaning cuz its not!
    wassalam

  12. #12
    Member Marat786@hotmail.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jamia al Karam
    Posts
    45

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    “Although, apparently Creation is distinct from the Creator, in reality the Creator is but Creation and Creation is but the Creator. All these are from one reality. Nay, it is but He who is the Only Reality, and it is He Who manifests Himself in all these realities.” (Fasusu’l-Hikam)

    astagfirullah!!!! i dont agree with the above

    but Hischam i could take one quotation from one Extreme Muslim that commands to kill all the non believers and use that to denote the whole genus of Muslims, which would be very unjust for me to do, not all people who say they practice the art of sufi-ism hold the same views and believes.

    We can only class individuals as deviants when they have deviated like for example there is a big dispute where i live 'are deobandis kuffar' and i keep on having to tell brothers becareful b'cos there are still sunni deobandis that havent deviated amongst them, not all of them believe in corrupt doctrine, brothers at the end of the day who are we to say whos who, if somebody has deviated we should be ready to help them, but unfortunately i find within the community a bunch that takes pleasure in seeing people go to the fire ......

    i have gone a bit off subject and i apologise for that, tawsawwuf has deviancy within it just like the term Jihad has deviancy within it ///what do i mean

    well there are certain people running around saying , doing bad things , proclaiming Jihad, however i cant say the Mujihadeen are deviants

    Salams
    my favourate Islamic websites are www.zaytuna.org www.htspub.com www.alhabibali.org/english/

  13. #13
    Banned Al-Ikhwan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Temporarily at Allim-e-Khuluq
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    yes there are a few ppl who have messed sufism too.
    example: like those i think they were called the whirling dervashis in turkey. they corrupted sufism. we should be carefull but if a few ppl have gone wrong it doesnt mean every1 is wrong. if a few policemen take bribes it doesnt mean every policeman takes bribe
    wassalam

  14. #14
    *********
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    U.S
    Posts
    1,102

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Ikhwan
    if a few policemen take bribes it doesnt mean every policeman takes bribe

    They are just being biased.

  15. #15

    Default Re: STOP AND LISTEN!!!

    yes there are a few ppl who have messed sufism too.
    example: like those i think they were called the whirling dervashis in turkey. they corrupted sufism. we should be carefull but if a few ppl have gone wrong it doesnt mean every1 is wrong. if a few policemen take bribes it doesnt mean every policeman takes bribe
    wassalam
    Very true, Once Late Ashfaq Ahmed ( I hope people from Pakistan know him ) gave a very good example about it.

    If a major in the army is corrupt that doesn't means that you remove the rank of Major from the army. What you have to do is to catch that particular major.

    On the other hand, we can see lot of scholors spreading totally illogical things on the name of Islam. So, what you think that we should leave all those scholors as well who are spreading true Islam.

    Waslaam

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •