18th September 2003, 05:51
Devolution of Conduct
Salaam and Namaste all,
it is quite a disturbing trend that has developed on this site.. it has gone from a place of intelligent discussion to a place of invective and hate filled rhetoric.
that Muslims engage in this kind of behavior is, to me, quite astounding! especially after having spent so much time on this forum discussing things with Muslims that aren't consumed by their anger and fear.
i see clearly the wonderfulness of Islam.. and Christianity for that matter... and it's amazing that three (though we're talking about two for the time being) religions that share so much in common are so antagonistic towards each other.
perhaps that's to be expected.. when people are close yet disagree the disagreements are often much more violent than when people are completely at odds with each other.
it saddens me to see such wonderful spiritual jewels be dragged through the mud by their so-called adherents, disparaging more than themselves... tarnishing their tradition.
do i even need to mention that, quoting scripture of either tradition, without a formal education in it, is quite self defeating. it's been clearly explained that, to properly understand Hadith, requires a great deal of study and no small degree of intellect. how this can not apply to Christianity as well is beyond me.
i don't comment directly on the Qur'an for that very reason.. i've not put the time in to become an "expert" on it... and i have no problem admitting such. when i have questions, i ask and the check the answers against the Qur'an itself. if what is said to me matches, then i accept it as a valid interpetation and explanation. if it doesn't i reject it.
i've seen several people recently start posting verses of scripture at each other (talking past each other, as it were) and then purporting to show how what is said proves such and such and that means such and such. all that really shows is that said posters do not have a solid foundation in that tradition and rely upon questionable evidence and assumption.
only in the past few weeks has the personal insulting started.... only in the past few weeks has it become an insult to an intelligent person to spend time on this site trying to learn. only in the past few weeks has the conduct devolved from one of polite inquiry to one of open hostility, bigotry and hatred.
personally... it is my opinion that the moderators should step up and correct this behavior. it is clearly prohibited in the forum rules of this site. Ronnie or Ayeshah.. please.. for all that is decent... put an end to this.
18th September 2003, 06:31
I agree with Vajradhara here,
I believe the forum and its users would benefit a lot from an intervetion by the moderators.
I understand that Ronnie and Ayeshah support freedom of speech but the forum is so filled with anger and disorder that it's quite difficult to have a free confrontation of thoughts.
18th September 2003, 06:36
i havent had time to read your messages but im sorry you have to read these ...you dont know how much he has wound me up ....my friend was right about him....i apologise for my conduct .....i have no worrys about cursing him hes already cursed
let there be no compulsion in religion : the truth stands out clear from error!
19th September 2003, 02:12
Big Al-Mawrid fan
If more muslims could take your approach to their own Deen, then they'd be better serving it.
When this forum started a year and a half ago, I started one of the first threads introducing myself and hoping out loud that the people here would be tolerant of each other's opinions. To be honest, I didn't think a tolerant atmosphere would prevail. I based my pessimism on my own person experiences with intolerance and self-righteousness. To my delight, however the people that began to show up were very open-minded and accepting of other people's positions.
I once started a thread asking people to put forward their ideas on why religious intolerance has been so prevailant throughout human history. Some interesting ideas would put forward; that religion is an intensely personal part of one's personality and a challenge to one's religious beliefs would be corrospondingly hurtful. This is because it was felt that if a religious belief was being challenged, then it would imply that the person following such a wrong belief would be in danger of earning God's anger.
To be honest, there was a time in my life when I had a similar narrow-minded and insular approach towards other people's opinions that differed with mine (with respect to religion). I got out of that sad state by reading the position of the scholars at Understanding Islam about the non-exclusivist nature of Islam and the accountability of only those people who knowingly rebel against God's laws. These two concepts put together did a lot to be totally accomodating of any and every opinion that was contrary to mind with respect to religion. I took the view point that even if the other person was wrong, it would not mean that God is any further away from his/her heart than He is from mine.
Unfortunately, an exclusivist interpretation of Islam is prevailent throughout the muslim world. The hostility of the recent posters over here was borne out of such belief.
21st September 2003, 02:22
Asalaam alaikoom and Peace friends,
Please view the current atmosphere as temporary, like a cyclone season, or a monsoon.
Soon, inshaAllah, the storm will clear and show us some mercy and results, perhaps flowers will bloom from it.
Til then, I will venture outside only when it is safe to do so, trying not to get caught in a sudden downpour.
Mostly biding my time indoors, watching the furor, saving what flowers I can inbetween squalls.
These things often tend to blow themselves out, inshaAllah.
Fi imanAllah and peace,
21st September 2003, 02:53
Salam and Namaste all,
Vajradhara, Atif, Darkyl and Saffiyya, thank you for your words. I want to let everyone know that I take full responsibility for the events that have unfolded at this forum. My absence, due to travels, have caused several people to slide through who do not respect the rules of this forum. Actually, it seems that some don't respect the very concept of decency and common courtesy. Please be patient with me. I promise that I will do my absolute best to bring back the elevated standards we've always had here, not to mention the family-like bond and interaction some of us have built up. Please, give me an opportunity but also, I seek your help. The loud and obnoxious tend to deafen and drown out the voice of the reasonable and sound. I seek your help in keeping your ground and not allowing anyone to make of you refugees. This is your home, don't give it up.
Peace, Love, Respect and Understanding