Christian Boy Marry Muslim Girl

[Ron]

Hello Surfinjo,

In that case, would it not be more conducive to discussion if you were to correct that lack of knowledge rather than ranting about how offended you are by someone who, according to you lacks knowledge?

I wasn't offended; maybe slightly amused. I appreciate that you are open to being corrected but I think it would be more "conducive" if you were to not state things you don't know as facts. It's not according to me that you lack knowledge on such matters you very posts are clear and they speak quite loudly to this.

As it happens, many of those propounding their versions of Christianity are indeed, either intentionally or unintentionally pursuing a supremacist European religion.

However, in the case of Christianity, the truth is there for all to read, in the Gospels, in the words of Jesus.

But in Islam it's not? Don't you see the contradiction in your claim? But in your case it's not Christianity that is supremacist European it's just "some" who propound it; but in the case of Islam, well that's just the religion: militant Asian. Think about that.

The teachings of Muhammad seem to be rather more obscure, principally because the most important texts, the hadith are divided into Sahih, Hasan, Daeef and Mawdoo, so trying to understand which are relevant becomes complicated. The matter is further complicated by the many disagreements between Muslims as to which hadith are suppose to be in which category.

Yet again a very misinformed statement. Firstly, the Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) teachings are a manifest axiom. They are in every corner of the world, which are demonstrated on a regular basis and we are a witness to. Trying to understand which ahadith are "relevant" is not complicated at all, that's why we have the different grades and the entire discipline of Hadith. Also the matter is not further complicated due to where what should be categorized as they have been categorized. I'm not sure where you get your information from but it is really incorrect.

Neither of the links you provided had anything to do with Islam. Here have fun with this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glynn_Wolfe (that's the married guy) and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4107524.stm (that's for crucifixions)...so should we believe this is Christianity?

Which most decent Muslim would abhor.

We do. So why state the obvious?

I follow the teachings of Jesus as they are recorded. (admittedly, written down 80 years after His death)

At least. Not to mention by unknown or otherwise persons we are unsure of.

You follow the teachings of Muhammad as they are recorded. (admittedly compiled about 40 years after his death in the case of the Quran and 100 to 300 years in the case of the more relevant Hadith).

Admitidly wrong...by you. The Qur'an was written and memorized in his lifetime. The complete Qur'an from cover to cover. The ahadith had been written in his lifetime also.

Or, we can nit pick over terminologies and find endless reasons not to communicate at all.

We can do all those nice things you'd like to do. But why should we accept your false and untrue comments about our religion and when we try to get you to prove your point or tell you that you are mistaken you call it "ranting" or "nitpicking." So come to the table without your preconceived notions and we can all learn from one another and have a positive outcome.

Regards

[lumumba_s]

My point was to indicate that, for Christians, love is a very spiritual experience. We get married when we love someone and they love us.

For Muslims, marriages are arranged, within boundaries. They hope that love will develop later.

The following is an excerpt from "Dialoge with My Mother" and as a Christian convert to Islam, it offers some insights into the difference between how things are perceived from each side. Your perception is self-promoting and lacks the personal experience that would enable you to legimately make such a claim.

I had responded to you previously on a number of points, but decided against allowing it to remain. I think this is more appropriate and I recommend that you (and everyone else) read the entire essay.

Beyond this, as my mother points out, the biggest sore point in our relationship after becoming Muslim was my decision to marry. I believe marriage is the hardest issue every person who converts to Islam out of a desire for the Truth confronts and, having spoken to quite a few of them, it seems we all make similar mistakes and face the same struggles in ourselves and with our families. I knew from early on in my adherence to Islam that this would be a major issue; when or if it would eventually arise. The Islamic method of introduction for marriage, at least as we understand it, is of course inimical to what is practised in Western Europe. With the historical exception of the aristocracy, this way of doing things is unheard of in these lands. Culturally, therefore, my decision to approach marriage in a manner in accordance with my religion came as a huge shock to my family; a shock which I do understand, despite the protestations that I clearly didn’t.

In late April during a waiting period between the end of a temporary job and my starting full time, I met a friend locally, with whom I discussed many things. Amongst them I expressed my desire to find a companion with whom to spend the rest of my life, just like any sane person does. Although I did not know that he would be able to help me personally, I did know that he was quite well connected in the local community, so I asked him if he knew of any women who had also converted to Islam, by which I really meant of British stock. I had felt some time earlier that as an English Muslim, someone of a similar background would best compliment me. As it happened, that was not to be, but as two converts we find that our bonding culture is in fact our religion, while our two superficially different national cultures strike us as being more like decoration.

Some time later, this friend contacted me to tell me that his wife knew of a convert who was also looking for a soul mate. He asked if I would like to meet her, which naturally I did, and so a meeting was arranged and dinner prepared. I decided to place the matter in the hands of my Creator from the outset and thus prayed a simple but powerful supplication with genuine sincerity. The prayer is known as Al-Istikharah and is used for seeking guidance in choosing a proper course.

…if You know this affair, that I should marry this person, to be good for me in relation to my religion, my life and end, then decree and facilitate it for me and bless me with it…

At that time I placed my trust absolutely with God and relied upon prayer as my guide. It is perhaps for this reason that I accepted this seemingly alien process towards marriage, even as it would be unacceptable to those around me. After a few meetings, having decided that we did like each other, and with me finding that God had not turned the possibility away from me as a later part of that prayer asks for something which is bad, we decided that we would marry in just three months time . . .

In the end, Zeynep and I married on the 4th of August 2001. At first we fell in like, and then, within the luxurious bounds of marriage, we fell in love, with all praise due to our Creator, who promises in the Qur’an that he puts love and mercy between the married couple as a sign for us all to reflect upon. My mother’s comments on the way we set about our marriage reflect my family’s hurt which I recognise and accept; she brackets incorrectly that I had my marriage arranged for me, but I can appreciate that the speed at which events took place prevented a lot of genuine understanding from occurring. Furthermore, greater wisdom and learning on my part could have made things easier for all concerned, but both of these are things which only grow over time.

[robert]

All this discussion about the influence of culture is important.The critics of Islam often say Islam is responsible for the oppression of women in the countries where it is predominant or dominant.

Once has to do a comparison between 2 groups.You have all heard of honor killings,in which a father or brother kills a girl because she lost her virginity or because they think she did.It is very common is some muslim countries.It is said to be part of the culture.But at the same time some of those countries have a sizable christian population and yet such killings are rare in the christian community.

The reason is,as I said before,that in the Koran there is no definition of the concept of good,like you can find many times in the new test.(golden rule).The Koran doesnt say to kill your daughter/sister but at the same time by its lack of a definition it is LESS EFFECTIVE in acting as a deterrent,it is less effective in eliminating or modifying the barbaric aspects of a certain culture(honor killings).

Such practices will disappear in time,but it will take a longer time.

[vinod]

Robert

I don't know if this willd derail the thread. If it does, I'll splice it up to a new thread.
Anyway, what do you mean by the definition of good and bad in the Quran and the Bible? Pls elaborate. I don't know about the 'golden rule'

Once has to do a comparison between 2 groups.You have all heard of honor killings,in which a father or brother kills a girl because she lost her virginity or because they think she did.It is very common is some muslim countries.It is said to be part of the culture.But at the same time some of those countries have a sizable christian population and yet such killings are rare in the christian community

You may have a half-point here. It is quite possible that there is good Christian influence to prevent the occurence of honour killings among Christians in muslim countries. But I do not think that it is ineffective Quranic teachings that sustain honour killings. I think it is because of complete disregard of Quranic teachings that honour killings continue. In my expereince with muslims. where there is religious consciousness there is no such ideas of honour in the family.

The above is my uninformed speculations and guesses. I'd be interested in some research done in this area. My housemate is a Pakistani. I'll talk to him tonight inshaAllah and see what he has to say about this.

Was-salam

[amal2031]

Asalamu Alaikom

A Uthu Billahy Minashaytan El Raghim, BismillahiRahman Alrahim,

Wala tankihu Almushrikati hata u'mynah, Walaamaton mu'minaton kheiron min mushrikatin walaw Ajabatkom. ( And vice versa for the female.)

English Translation:

221. Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

Surat Al-Baqarah Verse 221:

Your girlfriend should read this.

[opticyclic]

To wrap up this thread I have some irony for you.
She finally got round to telling her parents about us and that she wanted to get married.
Once she said it out loud she realised that she didn't want to get married, dumped me and went off doing other (non-muslim) guys

So this year has been pretty rubbish.
Lets hope next year picks up.

[Targlish]

To wrap up this thread I have some irony for you.
She finally got round to telling her parents about us and that she wanted to get married.

Once she said it out loud she realised that she didn't want to get married, dumped me and went off doing other (non-muslim) guys

So this year has been pretty rubbish.
Lets hope next year picks up.

Sounds like a Female Muslim Casanova......scary thought!!!

[vinod]

Once she said it out loud she realised that she didn't want to get married

I think it turned out good for you, though it leaves behind memories. Realizing something after saying it out aloud? Sounds shallow.

Regards

[AllahsLady]

Peace to all!

hope everyone's well, inshaallah.

i have some thoughts which may or may not help. i can understand the weakness in human attraction to te opposite sex, and it really doesn't help when it's difference in religion, cast, colour, ethics, blah blah blah. but the point you might want to ask yourself is this, IF this marriage, bond, whatever this person has with the other, IF it's absolutely destiny then why do you question Allah's will over the happening of it? what i mean is if the girl knows that this marriage to this christian is absolute, then wwhy not just wait for Allah to use His ultimate and infinite wisdom that no human posesses to work a way for this to happen. if it's gonna happen, it will, no doubt, why go and upset the people you love on the way no?
i myself encountered this and believe me i still am waiting becasue i know what allah chooses for me is by far a greater benefit for me than the choice i would have made.
i just thought tell your girlfriend that if she wants real help, pray two rakaats of salat-ul-istikharah. basically after the rakaats you ask for Allah (swt)'s blessing in any matter at hand and wait for the blessing and miracles of allah to enfold. (wonderful isn't it us, not only are we given the gift of salah but another gift of solving one's whims and desires)

YOu have commented very well on this. I to am a mislimah who awaits what Allah has in store for me and the christian man I am in love with. People do not like to see opposite religions combine, but no one on this earth can determine just where you should be in your life and who you should be with in your life that Allah has given you but Allah. So pray, believe, and patiently wait. Patience is a virtue.