Searching for a greatest purpose for creation.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace to you all

What do you feel is the greatest purpose for the creation of the universe?

Did God create all of us in the hope that we would all conform to one religion, and pray and believe the same as each other?

Did he create all of us in the hope that we would all willingly worship him and bring him glory?

Did he create us in a way that we would gain vast knowledge, conquer the universe, destroy poverty and disease?

Or can there be some other greater purpose?

In the spirit of searching for a greatest truth

Eric

[vinod]

1. Did God create all of us in the hope that we would all conform to one religion, and pray and believe the same as each other?

2 Did he create all of us in the hope that we would all willingly worship him and bring him glory?

3 Did he create us in a way that we would gain vast knowledge, conquer the universe, destroy poverty and disease?

Just want to say that Q1 and Q3 are not separate matters. Part of worship is to God's vicegerant on earth - administer justice, mercy and kindness to all creation. Religion is not all about ritualism/formalism either.

On Q2, no matter what we do, whether we believe or disbelieve, whether we pray or not, whether we give charity or not, whether we mention Him or not, His glory does not increase or decrease.

[Eric H]

Greetings vinod,

So would you say that the greatest purpose for the creation of the universe is for each one of us to administer justice, kindness and mercy to all of God’s creation?

That is indeed a very noble cause.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

[Ratatosk]

Greetings EricH,

What do you feel is the greatest purpose for the creation of the universe?

So it would be.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Eric,

thank you for an interesting post.

i hope you don't mind if i participate, even though i don't agree with some of the assumptions.

What do you feel is the greatest purpose for the creation of the universe?

i don't think it (the universe) is created. nevertheless, the greatest purpose, in my view, is to be of benefit to other sentient beings. this may take the form of charity, compassion, mercy and so forth. wisdom is the means by which we know the needs of the various beings and seek to accomodate said needs.

Did God create all of us in the hope that we would all conform to one religion, and pray and believe the same as each other?

umm... maybe? the evidence, by contrast, would lead one to suspect a different conclusion. if one is a believer in the Semetic traditions, then one would tend to think that the answer was "yes" until such time as mankinds hubris was so great that the Tower of Bable was destroyed and humans were scattered about and no longer speaking the same language.

Did he create all of us in the hope that we would all willingly worship him and bring him glory?

well.. anecdotal evidence would suggest otherwise. nevertheless, that seems like a common belief amongst the theistic traditions.

Did he create us in a way that we would gain vast knowledge, conquer the universe, destroy poverty and disease?

this sort of view, in my mind, is fairly problematic. to what do we compare our knowledge to call it "vast"? previous humans and cultures? whilst that may show that we have more knowledge than our predecessors, about certain matters, that is a far cry from being "vast".

i would doubt that we can conquer poverty, let alone disease and the universe however, since poverty is a rather human condition, it is possible to take steps to reduce or even eliminate it, though i tend to doubt this will happen.

Or can there be some other greater purpose?

to help sentient beings cross to the Other Shore and secure their liberation.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest truth

Eric

welll.... i'm not sure about "a greatest truth", but i always encourage the search

metta,

~v

[Eric H]

Greetings Vinod, Ratatosk and Vajradhara,

The consensus so far seems to be along the lines of creating the universe for justice and a greater moral good.

But where does religion come into it? Did God create the universe for any religious purpose?

Your views are always very welcome Vajradhara.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

[Eric H]

Greetings all,

This seems strange, there have been moral purposes for creation but no one seems to have volunteered a religious purpose as to why God created the universe and life.

If we look on morals as somehow being greater than religion, should we look to do away with religion and concentrate on greater morals?

In the spirit of searching

Eric

[Shukri]

Greetings all,

This seems strange, there have been moral purposes for creation but no one seems to have volunteered a religious purpose as to why God created the universe and life.

If we look on morals as somehow being greater than religion, should we look to do away with religion and concentrate on greater morals?

In the spirit of searching

Eric

In the Holy Qur'an, God teaches human beings that they were created in order to worship Him, and that the basis of all true worship is God-consciousness.Since the teachings of Islam encompass all aspects of life and ethics, God-consciousness is encouraged in all human affairs. Islam makes it clear that all human acts are acts of worship if they are done for God alone and in accordance to His Divine Law

[BumbleBee]

Here is an article which a brother wrote on the purpose of life....enjoy!

Islamic Information and Services P 03) 9354 7500
Network of Australasia F 03) 9354 4955
www.iisna.com What is the purpose of life?

Everything has a purpose

If you ask people about the reason or purpose of their life or existence, most people do not know or they respond according to what they have heard from others. Do you think that it is reasonable to say that all this beautiful and amazing creation has been created without a purpose, while even the flimsiest of items have a purpose? Of course not. So what is the purpose of our valuable life? How are we to spend our short time on this earth?

Know that you have been created for a noble purpose. God (Allah) says, “I have only created jinns (a special creation) and Man that they may worship Me” . Therefore, the purpose of our life is simply to worship Allah alone, to do the deeds which please Allah and to avoid the deeds which displease Him. Righteousness and true respect for Allah – which excludes the worship of anything else, whether idols, or deified men, or forces of nature or self- these are the criteria of true worship.

The True Concept of Worship and Belief

Worship is commonly translated as praying, but Islam goes further than that and incorporates worship into the practical life of a Muslim. For example, praying the way the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, showed us and giving charity are acts of worship. Being kind to your parents and neighbours are also acts of worship.

Muslims believe that Allah is the One and Only True God who is the Lord of you, me, all the people and all of creation. This belief in One God is the very foundation of Islam and Muslims believe that it is Allah (God) alone who deserves to be worshipped and praised.

Two simple statements form the first pillar of Islam: (1) La ilaha ill Allah, that is, there is no god or deity worthy of being worshipped besides Allah and (2) Muhammad-ur Rasool Allah, that is, Muhammad is the prophet and messenger of Allah. The name Allah means ‘The God’ and there is absolutely no one worthy of worship other than Him. To Him all heads should bow in submission and adoration. He is the Only and exclusive Possessor of all Power. All of us are in need of His Mercy, Grace and favours and everyone should ask for His help and guidance.

Allah, the Most Glorious, Most Exalted, is our Lord, Cherisher, Sustainer and Creator. He created us and also created for us the environment we live in. It is He Who sends down rain from the clouds and causes fruits, trees and vegetation to grow from the ground to feed us and the many creatures He has scattered throughout the vast expanse of the earth. For special guidance for mankind, Allah sent many prophets and messengers, amongst them are Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them all.

The Prophets of Allah

All the prophets were given miracles which they performed by God’s Will. The miracle of Noah was that the ark survived in the massive flood which God used to drown out the idolaters, statue worshippers and disbelievers. The fire was made cool for Abraham. The miracle or sign of David was that he defeated Goliath with nothing more than his sling and shepherds staff. The miracle/sign of Moses was that God parted the sea for him so that he could escape with the children of Israel, freeing them from the clutches of Pharoah. The miracles of Jesus were that by God’s Will he healed the lepers, cured the born blind and raised the dead. Also Jesus spoke as an infant and was born of a virgin birth. And Muhammad, peace and blessings upon him, was also given many miracles, like the splitting of the moon and the everlasting miracle of the Holy Qur’an.


The Last and Final Revelation

Out of His infinite Mercy and Grace, Allah has revealed the Final Revelation, the Qur’an, which confirms the original revelations sent down to Moses and Jesus. The Qur’an is a book which teaches us the good and pure acts we should do and warns us about the evil actions to avoid. The Quran gives us clear guidance as to what is right and what is wrong.

From the Qur’an we learn about Allah, His angels, His Books, His prophets, the Day of Judgement, Paradise, Hellfire and pre-destination. We also learn about what the prophets said to their people, bringing glad tidings and warning. As Noah says in the Qur’an: “I have come to you with clear warning: That ye serve none but Allah: verily I do fear for you the penalty of a Grievous Day” . Serving Allah, the Most Exalted, Most High, is part of our worship to Him.

Also, the miracle of Jesus is another sign which is narrated in the Qur’an. His blessed mother Mary was asked about the baby she carried. “But she pointed to the babe. They said, “How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?” He (the baby Jesus) said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet.” Also, Jesus says in the Qur’an, “It is Allah who is my Lord and your Lord; Then worship Him. This is a Way that is Straight.”

Success Lies in Submitting Yourself to God’s Will

Worshipping Allah alone means that we obey Him, and follow the example of the final prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. All of this creation belongs to Allah, the Most High, and it is for His pleasure, as well as your success in this life and the next, that you should discover Islam for yourself. Allah is the Lord of all the prophets including Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, Soloman, Moses, John the Baptist, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them all. In essence, they taught us to submit to Allah (God) and obey Him. They taught us that God is One and He has commands and guidelines which are to be followed. Those who obey God, the Most High, the One and Only Creator will be rewarded with paradise, Gardens of Eternity. And those who refuse to obey God and rebel will be punished in a fire known as hell.

And Allah is the Most Merciful who forgives all sins except the sin of worshipping others besides Him. And since all of us make mistakes and we all commit sins, we need to ask Allah for forgiveness, hoping for His Mercy and fearing His punishment.

Creation is not for idle sport or play. Allah (God) has a serious purpose behind it. Each person is given a chance to live his life in a purposeful manner, following the right guidance. Only Allah can guide and grant happiness and success, and both contentment and success depend upon our putting ourselves in accord with His Will. This is His true service and worship. It is of no benefit to Him, it is we who benefit from serving and worshipping Him.
God also says that it is “He Who created death and life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: And He is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving” . Our present life is clearly given to enable us to strive by good deeds to reach a nobler state. All this is possible, because Allah is so Exalted in Might that He can perfectly carry out His Will and Purpose, and that Purpose is Love, Mercy and Goodness to His creatures.

This world is full of trials, difficulty and hardship. Never can your Lord, Allah, the Most Great, let you down if you serve and worship Him. He will always look after you, protect you, and when you call unto Him, you will find Him close to you. Allah is The One who Hears and Sees everything and He is The Only One able to respond to your prayers and supplications.

God (Allah) says: “When My servants ask about Me, I am indeed close to them. I listen to the prayer of every supplicant, when he calls on Me. Let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me, so that they may walk in the right way”

What is the purpose of your life?

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Bumblebee,

thank you for the post.

What is the purpose of your life?

Liberation.

why, what is the purpose of that which you call life?

metta,

~v

[Lamp Of Light]

May Peace and Truth be with us always !!

This seems strange, there have been moral purposes for creation but no one seems to have volunteered a religious purpose as to why God created the universe and life.

Well, as a truth seeker, these things have crossed my mind. I can share with you my speculations.

In an nutshell, I think God created the universe and life for a two-fold reason. To both glorify and experience Himself through the creation and its creatures.( and specifically, man, whom God apparently holds in higher regard then any other beings of His creation.

i don't think it (the universe) is created. nevertheless, the greatest purpose, in my view, is to be of benefit to other sentient beings. this may take the form of charity, compassion, mercy and so forth. wisdom is the means by which we know the needs of the various beings and seek to accomodate said needs.

If you do not believe the universe was created, then one can only presume you do not believe in a creator, or higher being, namely God. Is this correct ? I would have to believe that then makes morality relative, and why should one bother to culimnate charity, compassion, mercy and so forth, if morality is relative ? Why wouldn't they just "go for all they can get, at the expense of their fellow man", i mean , after all, if morality is relative, then there is no cost or obligation, and the focus should then, naturally, become "serving self".
Do you disagree ? If so, what is the driving factor in such reasoning to prevent the "every man for himself" attitude it must surely feed ?

May the Glory of the Lord fill your heart forever !!

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Lamp of Light,

thank you for the post.

If you do not believe the universe was created, then one can only presume you do not believe in a creator, or higher being, namely God. Is this correct ?

that is correct.

I would have to believe that then makes morality relative,

that is also correct.

and why should one bother to culimnate charity, compassion, mercy and so forth, if morality is relative ?

karma.

Why wouldn't they just "go for all they can get, at the expense of their fellow man", i mean , after all, if morality is relative, then there is no cost or obligation, and the focus should then, naturally, become "serving self".

there is no "self" to serve. nevertheless, karma is the "stick" as it were, of moral exhortation. thus, there is a cost, in a manner of speaking, for engaging in unskillful moral or ethical actions.

Do you disagree ? If so, what is the driving factor in such reasoning to prevent the "every man for himself" attitude it must surely feed ?

well.. mostly an understanding of karma restrains one from engaging in unskillful moral or ethical actions, thoughts or words.

metta,

~v

[Lamp Of Light]

May Peace and Truth be with us always !!

Thank you for your reply Vajradhara !!


Ahh yes, Karma, I forgot about that ! hehe I used to believe in karma before I believed in God. I felt it was a directly observable phenomenon in many situations. Now that I have come to know God, of course, I realize the concept of karma remains valid. However, my understanding is now that it serves to affirm the truth of Gods word and will for mankind. In other words, when you sin, Gods justice will be served in one way or another, in this world or the next, and this is directly observable as what you would call(and I used to call) karma.

Where we seemingly disgree then is that there is one objective and absolute truth, that is .. God.

I thought I saw you state somewhere earlier that you did not believe there was one objective truth, but I can prove to you that there is absiolute truth, and to deny its exsitance is to deny reality itself.


Consider the following statement:
It is absoutely truth that absolute truth doesn't exist.

We know this statement is false through logic and reason. It is impossible absolute truth doesn't exist, because for you to make the above statement that absolute truth didn't exist, would require, by default, absolute truth to exist. So it is logically impossible that absolute truth doesn't exist. The question does hoever remain as to what that absolute truth is. I say it is God, and that morality is not relative. I am not sure what you say the absolute truth is, but you obviously don't believe in it being God..so what then is it from your perspective ?

May the Glory of the Lord fill your heart forever !!

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Lamp of Light,

thank you for the post.

Ahh yes, Karma, I forgot about that ! hehe I used to believe in karma before I believed in God. I felt it was a directly observable phenomenon in many situations. Now that I have come to know God, of course, I realize the concept of karma remains valid. However, my understanding is now that it serves to affirm the truth of Gods word and will for mankind. In other words, when you sin, Gods justice will be served in one way or another, in this world or the next, and this is directly observable as what you would call(and I used to call) karma.

good, i'm pleased that we agree with some of the basics of the idea you may be surprised at the number of beings which feel that they are not going to reap the harvest which they have sown.

Where we seemingly disgree then is that there is one objective and absolute truth, that is .. God.

no matter how it is termed, i would disagree.

I thought I saw you state somewhere earlier that you did not believe there was one objective truth, but I can prove to you that there is absiolute truth, and to deny its exsitance is to deny reality itself.

you have some evidence to present regarding the existence of an absolute truth?

Consider the following statement:
It is absoutely truth that absolute truth doesn't exist.

that's a strange statement to make.

We know this statement is false through logic and reason.

who is "we"?

It is impossible absolute truth doesn't exist, because for you to make the above statement that absolute truth didn't exist, would require, by default, absolute truth to exist. So it is logically impossible that absolute truth doesn't exist.

hmm.. that is not correct. i can make the assertion that absolute truth does not exist without any issue, it is when i insist that such a view is the only view that a problem arises, in my view. since this is a matter of subjectivity, i'm not really seeing the issue.

The question does hoever remain as to what that absolute truth is.

well.. there are a few more questions than that.. but that is certainly one of them there is a subtle intimation throughout the post which seems to be suggesting that human intellect can encompass the "absolute" truth, which thus far has not been evidenced, in my view.

I say it is God, and that morality is not relative. I am not sure what you say the absolute truth is, but you obviously don't believe in it being God..so what then is it from your perspective ?

it is rather demonstrable that morality is relative, to wit, canabalism.

since i don't think that there is any evidence to support the conclusion of there being an absolute truth, my view is that such a thing does not exist. if, however, i had to state it in postive terms, i would say that absolute truth does not exist in the manner in which we typically think that it does.

metta,

~v

[Lamp Of Light]

I said:
It is impossible absolute truth doesn't exist, because for you to make the above statement that absolute truth didn't exist, would require, by default, absolute truth to exist. So it is logically impossible that absolute truth doesn't exist.


You replied:
hmm.. that is not correct. i can make the assertion that absolute truth does not exist without any issue, it is when i insist that such a view is the only view that a problem arises, in my view. since this is a matter of subjectivity, i'm not really seeing the issue.

May Peace and Truth be with us always !!

thank you for your reply !! My friend, clear your mind and think rationally a moment. Truth is not subject to anything, but all things are subject to truth. For somthign to exist requires truth. It exists, therefore it is true that it exists. Or, it does not exist, therefore it is true that it does not exist. Truth on other hand is not subject to anything, yet always exists, always has, and always will exist, regardless of the existance of anythign else.

Truth is the fundamental monistic principle of your entire reality. If it was not true that there was oxygen in the air, you would not be breathing. If it wasn't true that you got hungry, you wouldn't eat. If you did not think and say "therefore I am" and it wasn't true, you wouldn't exist as a living sentient being. Everything requires or depends upon truth. All logic and reason would fail without it and all logic and reason depend upon truth entirely. All truth must be established in order for perfect judgement to be administered in a matter of dispute or correction, and this with understanding of the truth.

One can assert "absolute truth does not exist", but such an assertion is futile and impossible to ever be actualized or realized, because the realization of such an assertion would then quantify absolute truth as necessary. Absolute truth would be required for the assertion to become actualized, and so, the assertion is proven false and impossible to ever become a realized fact or realized reality. Its absolutely impossible to achieve a rational state of existance where truth is not required or depended upon, and there is nothing subjective about it.

For example, "your truth" and "my truth" might be two very different things, but when it gets right down to it, the "real" truth is the real truth, and this is regardless of "your truth" or " my truth". Perception is what makes your truth and my truth different (thats my wager anyways), and the truth is the truth regardless of whether or not we perceive it correctly, or even at all. So the real truth is absolutely not subjective in any way shape or form.

Neither can one point ot cannablism and then use that to set up the supposition that morality is relative. God provided us a free will, and that is the reason. Obviously not all men are alike in their body/mind/spirit. This does not demonstrate of necessity that because there are cannibals that morality is not absolute. To the contrary my friend, I will ask you this... why is it that your perception of the function karma is valid ? For the very fact that morality is absolute !! That s right ! If it wasn't true that taking certain actions brought other consequences, while other certain actions brought benefit, then there would be no valid perception of karma permitted, since one action could very well lead to another action instead. Yet we know what yielding a loving an dkind hearted, forgiving, merciful, and caring nature yiekds, as opposed to a wicked, tyrannical, unrelenting, murderous nature yields... do we not ??


In conclusion I would just add that we are talking baout existance or non-existance of absolute truth thereof. Therefore if it is impossible to ever actualize or realize a state where absolute truth doesn't exist, then the only other possible remaining choice , is that it does. It is irrefutable, it is perfectly logical, and exactingly reasoned. The proof is therin to be found. It can only be one or the other, if it is impossible to ever be one, then it can only be, by default, the other. Absolute truth is proven therefore to exist by deduction. Or will you refute it ?
May the Glory of God fill your heart forever !!!