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Thread: Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

  1. #1

    Default Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

    Assalam alaikum,

    Abu Huraira, may Allah be pleased with him, narrated that he heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, saying:--

    "NONE OF YOU SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS WORKS". A man said: "NOT EVEN YOURSELF, O MESSENGER OF ALLAH?". He said, "NOT EVEN MYSELF,
    UNLESS ALLAH COVERS ME WITH A MERCY FROM HIM. BUT STRIVE TO BE RIGHT". [Sahih Muslim].

    This Noble Hadith restates the orthodox Islamic position, to the effect that no one deserves recompense or Paradise (Jannah) for his acts of obedience. Some may quote Qur'anic verses, as in the words of Allah, Most High, such as:--

    "ENTER PARADISE FOR THAT WHICH YOU HAVE DONE". (16:32) and "THAT IS PARADISE, WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN BESTOWED FOR WHAT YOU DID BEFORE".(7:43)
    and similar verses which indicated that Paradise is entered by virtue of works.

    These verses do not contradict above Hadith. Rather, these verses indicate that entering Paradise is because of works... good deeds... but Divinely given success (TAWFIQ) to do the works, and being guided to have SINCERITY in the works and their ACCEPTABILITY are at the Mercy of Allah, Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.

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    Default Re: Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

    Abu Fauzi,

    Your title and post are misleading. Even the hadith you quoted asks for righteous deeds. Of course no one will be saved if God Almighty doesn't have mercy but righteousness and piety are integral to being a Muslim. The theology you're espousing is Paulian and it is obvious that some Muslims are taking their cues from Christian beliefs. Also, there is no hadith that stands above the Qur'an and you're explanation extends to explain a contradiction that isn't there but by virtue of your assertions and unnecessary explanation it makes it seem that way. I guess you're trying to say, "don't think that being a good person will get you anywhere without God's mercy..." In the context of the Divine Will and the guidance of the Qur'an and Sunnah, does this even have to be said?

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    Default Re: Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

    There are no good persons. Jesus said, "Only God is good." So why should God have mercy on a person that thinks he is good or that thinks anyone else is good other than God? Why should God have mercy on a person who only thinks God is good? People often confuse a person doing a good deed with being a good person. A person that loves God can sometimes do bad things and a non believer or one who hates God can sometimes do good things. A person is not doing a good work according to God's standard unless God is doing it through them.
    Last edited by Burninglight; 4th January 2014 at 22:48.
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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    Default Re: Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

    Burninglight,

    You do realize Jesus (pbuh) excluded himself from who is "good" and responded that only God is good.

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    Default Re: Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Burninglight,

    You do realize Jesus (pbuh) excluded himself from who is "good" and responded that only God is good.
    Yes, Ron; that's why I said that about no one being good, but Jesus didn't exclude Himself. It only appeared to be that way, but there is something much, much deeper going on in His words. That's a common misconception among Muslims today, but I understand how they can feel that way, but if you're interested, I can prove differently than what you're asking me about.

    Peace be unto you!
    Last edited by Burninglight; 5th January 2014 at 20:12.
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

  6. #6

    Default Re: Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

    Salaam everyone,
    I wish to refer to the comments of the Administrator (Ron) dated 3rd January, 2014, regarding the topic I posted titled above and say to him, Sir, please do NOT force words into my mouth or unto my pen when you said: "your title and topic are misleading". SUBHANALLAHI!! I never intended to mislead anyone anywhere.
    And I was NOT taking any cue from Christian or Paulian beliefs- far from it. As the Administrator, said, I was only trying to remind Members of this Forum or whoever drops by to read the topic, not to as you yourself said, "think that being a good person will get you [us] anywhere without God's Mercy". And Reminding one another in such matters are not disallowed in Islam, are they? Where some believe that they are so knowledgeable enough to stand in no need of such reminders, certainly others will welcome them.
    Regards.

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    Default Re: Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Fauzi View Post
    Salaam everyone,
    I wish to refer to the comments of the Administrator (Ron) dated 3rd January, 2014, regarding the topic I posted titled above and say to him, Sir, please do NOT force words into my mouth or unto my pen when you said: "your title and topic are misleading". SUBHANALLAHI!! I never intended to mislead anyone anywhere..
    Just because one intends not to mislead another, that doesn't mean they are not doing it inadvertently. A comment like "Do not rely on your deeds" is a very strong Christian message along with putting faith in Christ. Only God can put in us the will to do according to His good pleasure. The good we think we do for God is as Paul says only filthy rags. As the Scripture that came before says: "Unless the Lord builds the house, the laborers labor in vain."

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Fauzi View Post
    And I was NOT taking any cue from Christian or Paulian beliefs- far from it..
    That is too bad, otherwise, you'd be on the right track, IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Fauzi View Post
    As the Administrator, said, I was only trying to remind Members of this Forum or whoever drops by to read the topic, not to as you yourself said, "think that being a good person will get you [us] anywhere without God's Mercy". And Reminding one another in such matters are not disallowed in Islam, are they? Where some believe that they are so knowledgeable enough to stand in no need of such reminders, certainly others will welcome them.
    Regards.
    The Scriptures that came before such as Paul's writings says the same. "I know you know these things, but it is good to be reminded!" The point you seem to be missing is that God's mercy will not be given to those who trust in their works, and this is not what you're saying, but needs to be said to have any substance whatsoever to it!

    Finally, even though I don't agree with major parts of Islam, Ron had a good point and wasn't forcing anything on you, IMO.
    Last edited by Burninglight; 5th January 2014 at 21:32.
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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    Default Re: Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

    Burninglight,

    You don't have to prove anything; to me it doesn't just appear that way he says, "Why do you call me good? Only God is good." Anyway, it's my understanding and you obviously disagree so we can leave it at that.

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    Default Re: Do Not Rely On Your Deeds.

    Abu Fauzi,
    Sir, please do NOT force words into my mouth or unto my pen when you said: "your title and topic are misleading". SUBHANALLAHI!! I never intended to mislead anyone anywhere.
    I think you're misusing the phrase "forcing words into your mouth." I didn't say you said something you didn't actually say. All I said that your title and topic are misleading. I'm sure you didn't intend it and that's why I pointed it out.
    And I was NOT taking any cue from Christian or Paulian beliefs- far from it.
    I said some Muslims and not just the lay-persons. It's an unfortunate fact.
    And Reminding one another in such matters are not disallowed in Islam, are they? Where some believe that they are so knowledgeable enough to stand in no need of such reminders, certainly others will welcome them.
    Reminding in Islam is not disallowed. I actually appreciate it. However, misleading based on a misconception or an unclear understanding requires correction. No one here claims to have so much knowledge that they don't need a reminder of several things. What my comments were about was to inform you that you are posting misguidance. That may sound harsh but it's not intended to be. By your post, you may potentially help people think that doing good is not significant. They may not realize that in Islam faith and works are co-equal and dependent on each other. So when you say, "This Noble Hadith restates the orthodox Islamic position, to the effect that no one deserves recompense or Paradise (Jannah) for his acts of obedience," then you should realize that not only does in fly in the face of multiple Qur'anic verses it is also disloyal to the words of the hadith. As I said, deeds are integral to Islam just as faith is. Here is a hadith that will emphasize my point to show how important they are:

    Narrated Hakim bin Hizam:

    I said to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), "Before embracing Islam I used to do good deeds like giving in charity, slave-manumitting, and the keeping of good relations with Kith and kin. Shall I be rewarded for those deeds?" The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "You became Muslim with all those good deeds (Without losing their reward)." -Sahih al-Bukhari 1436

    I am not trying to be contentious. I just want to help you send a positive and good message. At the end of it all we agree that God's mercy is what saves us, but for us and from our perspective we need to keep in mind that good deeds (prayer, charity, kindness, just plain goodness) is an indispensable ingredient to being Muslim and having success in the hereafter.

    Regards

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