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Thread: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

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    Default Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    Salaam to you all,
    In Ayat 40 of Surat Nazi'at of the Holy Qur'an (79:40), Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says:--

    "BUT FOR HIM WHO FEARED STANDING BEFORE HIS LORD [on the Judgement Day] AND
    FORBADE THE SOUL ITS CAPRICE, SURELY PARADISE WILL BE THE REFUGE".

    This Ayat is explained by a Hadith in which Jabir, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said:-

    "The things that I fear most for my community are: following [one's] passion and expecting too much
    [of this world]. Following one's passion turns one away from the Truth, whereas expecting too much [of this world]
    renders one forgetful of the Hereafter. Know, therefore, that struggling against the soul is the beginning of worship".

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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Fauzi View Post
    Salaam to you all,
    In Ayat 40 of Surat Nazi'at of the Holy Qur'an (79:40), Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says:--

    "BUT FOR HIM WHO FEARED STANDING BEFORE HIS LORD [on the Judgement Day] AND
    FORBADE THE SOUL ITS CAPRICE, SURELY PARADISE WILL BE THE REFUGE".

    This Ayat is explained by a Hadith in which Jabir, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said:-

    "The things that I fear most for my community are: following [one's] passion and expecting too much
    [of this world]. Following one's passion turns one away from the Truth, whereas expecting too much [of this world]
    renders one forgetful of the Hereafter. Know, therefore, that struggling against the soul is the beginning of worship".
    All of these verses are paraphrased from the Bible. It was in the Bible first is what I am trying to say. The Bible is the miracle if you ask me!
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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    Senior Member naderM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    So the Quran re-states universal religious truths and wisdom, what is your point? All of Jesus' wise humanist utterings reported in the NT were either stated long before in the Tanakh by the likes of Moses, or very close to his time by Jewish thinkers, let alone those Pharisees whom Jesus regarded as "sons of satan", such as Hillel who is quoted in the Talmud saying almost word for word what Jesus would utter about a century later in Matt7:12"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you".
    41:53 We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth.

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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by naderM View Post
    So the Quran re-states universal religious truths and wisdom, what is your point? All of Jesus' wise humanist utterings reported in the NT were either stated long before in the Tanakh by the likes of Moses, or very close to his time by Jewish thinkers, let alone those Pharisees whom Jesus regarded as "sons of satan", such as Hillel who is quoted in the Talmud saying almost word for word what Jesus would utter about a century later in Matt7:12"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you".
    Jesus said radical new and very original things, because He was and is the word of God. He said things like the law says don't commit adultery, but I tell you if you just look at a woman to lust after her you have committed adultery of the heart, and many other such things he said about not following an eye for an eye tooth for tooth by saying don't resist evil. He said, When someone takes your coat give him your cloak as well. Moses did not teach these universal truths, because it was new, unique and original from Jesus. No prophet could ever match the authority and wisdom with what Jesus said and did. The point is I don't want to give credit to Muhammad or the Quran for things taken from a book Muslims now call corrupt.

    Peace be upon you
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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    Senior Member naderM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    There are no new moral principles started by Jesus. Quoting his own wording of those past principles doesnt credit him of any originality.
    41:53 We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth.

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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by naderM View Post
    There are no new moral principles started by Jesus. Quoting his own wording of those past principles doesnt credit him of any originality.
    Jesus said, "If you hate your brother, you are a murder" Where did God say that your murder if you didn't actually kill someone you hate in the OT? Where did He say just looking a woman with lust is adultery? Where did God say love your enemies? It sounds radically new to me, but I respect your opinion. You are entitled to it.

    Peace
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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    Senior Member naderM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    Do you mean the moral principles of loving a brother in faith, or not lustfully looking at women were unknown to humanity? Again, quoting Jesus' own wording doesnt credit him for originating those principles.

    As to being compassionate to some enemies, not only it isnt new but also Jesus' statement was conditional since he didnt show any love to those that rejected him when he denigrated them to the extreme and promised their doom, or when he purposefully obscured the truth to a certain category of people. See Matt13:13-15.
    41:53 We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth.

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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by naderM View Post
    Do you mean the moral principles of loving a brother in faith, or not lustfully looking at women were unknown to humanity? Again, quoting Jesus' own wording doesnt credit him for originating those principles.

    As to being compassionate to some enemies, not only it isnt new but also Jesus' statement was conditional since he didnt show any love to those that rejected him when he denigrated them to the extreme and promised their doom, or when he purposefully obscured the truth to a certain category of people. See Matt13:13-15.
    That is not what I am saying read it again. here is the verse you quoted: 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

    14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

    15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
    This is not hate. Jesus loved them and spoke the sad truth about them. I can see Jesus saying this about you as well.

    You are loved
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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    Senior Member naderM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    You are saying exactly that, Jesus invented new moral principles yet he clearly didnt. Showing me his own wording of those universal principles doesnt credit him for originating them.

    As to the Matthew passage, it shows how Jesus did not love and pray for these "enemies", he on the contrary kept them far from the truth.
    Jesus clearly states in it that he keeps speaking in parables to the spiritually blind "in order that" they do not understand "otherwise they might turn and be forgiven". He uses parables to teach and lead astray at the same time. It teaches his followers and confuses his rejecters and he purposely continues in this manner "otherwise" the rejecters might turn and repent, meaning he could have taught them in another manner than in parables but didnt, to achieve a certain objective. Note Jesus is quoting Isaiah6's prophecy where Yahweh is sending Isaiah to some sinful nation to fortell their doom and prior to this these people have their spiritual senses sealed as a punishment and Isaiah is to further confuse them (make the heart...) "otherwise" they might mend their ways. It is in this exact sense that Jesus in Matt13 is referencing Isaiah, hence the words that the prophecy is fulfilled in his contemporaries. He was confronted to people whose spiritual senses were sealed by God as a punishment as he stated earlier and to fulfill Isaiah's text he does exactly like him, confusing them as a form of wordly punishment for their rejection of him, through parables "otherwise" they might get a chance at turning back and repenting.
    41:53 We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth.

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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    When Jesus was on the cross, He said father forgive them for they know not what they do. If this is not showing love and forgiveness I don't know what is. Moreover, just the fact that He came to die for us while we were yet sinners so we could be made right with God is a love that passes human understanding. You have to be of Jesus' fold to see it. You are not of His fold. Jesus brought a radical new way to see the law to were He made it clear no one could keep it. Jesus is the only one through whom we can keep the law because He did it for us.

    Peace
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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    Senior Member naderM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    So by obscuring the truth to his enemies to avoid them repenting, as per Matthew's parable, Jesus was showing them love?
    41:53 We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth.

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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by naderM View Post
    So by obscuring the truth to his enemies to avoid them repenting, as per Matthew's parable, Jesus was showing them love?
    This one liner question of yours makes no sense or makes no point to me. If someone else understands what your saying here please chime in!
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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    Senior Member naderM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    Its clear. Jesus, according to you, taught the principle of loving one's enemies. How do you reconcile that statement with the example from Matthew shwoing that he didnt by closing the doors of repentance to those that rejected him, ie his enemies?
    41:53 We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth.

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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by naderM View Post
    Its clear. Jesus, according to you, taught the principle of loving one's enemies. How do you reconcile that statement with the example from Matthew shwoing that he didnt by closing the doors of repentance to those that rejected him, ie his enemies?
    You mean the Jewish leaders. That is because they were blasphemers who didn't want truth. They were the blind leading the blind. Had Jesus not done the works that no other prophet had done they would have an excuse. They hated Jesus without a cause. Everything God does is out of love even when he destroys the wicked, Jesus did and said everything the father said and did so He too did it out of love. If you knew Jesus instead of just knowing about Him from an Islamic perspective you would know these things, but you don't know Him. To know Him is to have eternal life
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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    Senior Member naderM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ayat 40 Of Surat Nazi'at Considered.

    So Jesus' quote should be changed to "love some of your enemies"
    41:53 We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth.

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