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Thread: Salutations from an individual seeking answers

  1. #1

    Default Salutations from an individual seeking answers

    Hi, all.

    I guess one could call me an ex-muslim although I wanted to give a few debates another try — ascertain whether I can be swayed back to Islam, even if nominally.

    I'm not very good with introductory platitudes but I'm someone with a background in philosophy (islamic and western both) marxism, and history. I guess what caused me to become disillusioned with the faith was the complete lack of critical engagement with philosophical questions in my islamic community. Instead when I asked questions about morals, determinism, dialectics and causality, I was always given a very kurt bourgeois response along the lines of 'don't obsess over this stuff and enjoy life'. Needless to say, I wasn't satisfied with this flippant attitude although I comprehend it, of course. My community originates from a country that is reveling in the glories of neoliberalism so optimism for the future is at its absolute pinnacle. There is no need to ask perturbing questions when things are going well.

    I guess my main problem with islam is the disastrous consequences of asharite causality. If we can conceive of causal chains operating along the lines of allah>A, allah>B, allah>C (which appears to be the most philosophically sound approach in accordance with islam) then we cannot speak of human agency at all, contra-mu'tazili doctrine that commits reified shirk by asserting that all acts in the universe are somehow autonomous from God. But this kind of Ghazalian mysticism inevitably leads to deism or agnosticism because morality cannot be said to exist as an absolute category, unless we are somehow contending that God is confined by morality, which makes him imperfect as he cannot transcend it.

    My question is: is there a scholar who has offered a perspicacious response to this proposed internal inconsistency or was islam, like Christianity, destined for a reactive nihilism to arise out of a negative, in the typically Deleuzian–Nietzschean sense?

    I earnestly request that people avoid the typical Hamza Yusuf/Tariq Ramadan crowd in answering my question. These are absolute hackjobs that manage to make Christian apologists look intelligent, which is not saying much, let's be honest.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Salutations from an individual seeking answers

    Also, any comrades or ex-comrades about, feel free to message me. Would be nice chatting to someone from a similar background.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Salutations from an individual seeking answers

    Can I ask what are your current conclusions about the creation of this universe and mankind

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Salutations from an individual seeking answers

    I would put this in your reading list. Not meant to convert, but it will give better understanding http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Destiny-.../dp/088706163X

    In the Quran message is clear: there is afterlife whether anyone believes in it or not, and everyone will be raised to account. Obviously those who are mindful of this will deal their affairs cautiously and accordingly, and won't be caught into those events unguarded and unprepared. It is warning and also glad tiding because it also has returns/rewards and not just adverse consequences making wrong decisions.

    To me what happens in next life for the description given in Quran appears like reflection of what a person does here. For example, in one place in Quran it says God will make Himself non-existent for those who were not mindful of meeting him. It does include atheists probably, since it is talking about the intention to live a life to be cautious of standing in front of God, but it is generally covering all people including those who profess faith in God but do what they want to do even if it is wrong, or don't want to learn what is right or what is wrong and live in their life what thinking of any consequences. It starts from there and I suppose it comes under taqwa in a nutshell.
    Last edited by hyd; 9th December 2013 at 22:12.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Salutations from an individual seeking answers

    Quote Originally Posted by hyd View Post
    I would put this in your reading list. Not meant to convert, but it will give better understanding http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Destiny-.../dp/088706163X

    In the Quran message is clear: there is afterlife whether anyone believes in it or not, and everyone will be raised to account. Obviously those who are mindful of this will deal their affairs cautiously and accordingly, and won't be caught into those events unguarded and unprepared. It is warning and also glad tiding because it also has returns/rewards and not just adverse consequences making wrong decisions.

    To me what happens in next life for the description given in Quran appears like reflection of what a person does here. For example, in one place in Quran it says God will make Himself non-existent for those who were not mindful of meeting him. It does include atheists probably, since it is talking about the intention to live a life to be cautious of standing in front of God, but it is generally covering all people including those who profess faith in God but do what they want to do even if it is wrong, or don't want to learn what is right or what is wrong and live in their life what thinking of any consequences. It starts from there and I suppose it comes under taqwa in a nutshell.
    To a point what you say here could be said of most religions. Christianity, however, has a slightly different twist regarding what one does here on earth. For instance, if a person does good deeds all there life and prays every day 5 times and has not love even for his enemies, his good deeds will profit him nothing in the hereafter.

    If a man trust in what they do for God to enter paradise, they will be grossly disappointed by finding out they fall terribly short of the glory of God. The only person that was ever worthy and sinless was Jesus Christ, and that is why it is only through Him that we can inherit eternal life.

    That is the only reason Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life" He didn't say I show the way for now. He said, "you will die in your sin unless you believe I am He" Who is He? He is the son of the living God. What does it mean to die in your sin? It means a Christless eternity!

    It is what we do with Jesus that determines our hereafter. It is only the good God does through us that will last and not what we do for God! Here you have it not just the nutshell but the whole tree of life!
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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