Logic, Foolishness and God's commandments

[jude3]

im sorry, but it not only offends his logic, but it us laughable.

The Arab us sitting in a cave. An angel comes. Gives him a message which 'looks' like other do called revelations....then the atheist must readily accept this 'logic'.

Right.

The logic would go like this:
* There is a Creator of the Universe who exists outside of the Universe (by definition)
* Humans were created with souls and choice to do good or not to do good
* There is an after-life where the consequences of our choices are rewarded (or not)
* The Creator has a plan for mankind, which includes sending down revelation to humans on how to behave socially and how to gain attain spiritual perfection in this world, and perfection in the next.
* The Creator communicated to all people in all times via Prophets, and via other divine creations called angels.
* The final revelation of Divine law happened in Arabia to the Prophet Muhammad, pbuh.

That's the logic. Now, whether he agrees with the premises under that logic is another point - but the logic is there and doesn't offend God-given faculties of logic. No need for talking donkeys or believing things are present and absent simultaneously, for example.

Cheers,
Shafique

PS - you should re-examine the history and just ensure you're not being misled like you were over Israel and Palestine, and the Kufic script.

[Shafique]

Jude, you gave a long list and I answered all of them.

Islam does not require us to give up logic. I could go on explaining the logic in all the teachings of Islam you care to bring up - but how about if we first discuss why you believe that Christian theology can't actually stand up to the test of logic.

(I can't see why an angel visiting Muhammad, pbuh, is any more laughable than an angel visiting Mary (or Abraham) - but hey, what you find funny and illogical is up to you. )

Cheers,
Shafique

[jude3]

Please explain the logic of the 'after life' to a non believer?

The logic would go like this:
* There is a Creator of the Universe who exists outside of the Universe (by definition)
* Humans were created with souls and choice to do good or not to do good
* There is an after-life where the consequences of our choices are rewarded (or not)
* The Creator has a plan for mankind, which includes sending down revelation to humans on how to behave socially and how to gain attain spiritual perfection in this world, and perfection in the next.
* The Creator communicated to all people in all times via Prophets, and via other divine creations called angels.
* The final revelation of Divine law happened in Arabia to the Prophet Muhammad, pbuh.

That's the logic. Now, whether he agrees with the premises under that logic is another point - but the logic is there and doesn't offend God-given faculties of logic. No need for talking donkeys or believing things are present and absent simultaneously, for example.

Cheers,
Shafique

PS - you should re-examine the history and just ensure you're not being misled like you were over Israel and Palestine, and the Kufic script.

[Shafique]

I could go on explaining the logic in all the teachings of Islam you care to bring up - but how about if we first discuss why you believe that Christian theology can't actually stand up to the test of logic.

No need to avoid this question.

The logic of an afterlife stems from the first few bullet points - it is logical to have an after life if we consider the nature of God and creation.

Cheers,
Shafique

[jude3]

my point is that you keep saying, for the Muslim, we don't need to give up logic. I get that....but I'm not asking that...I'm working through some 'Muslim theology' for the non believer.

Please continue with my other q's.

Jude, you gave a long list and I answered all of them.

Islam does not require us to give up logic. I could go on explaining the logic in all the teachings of Islam you care to bring up - but how about if we first discuss why you believe that Christian theology can't actually stand up to the test of logic.

(I can't see why an angel visiting Muhammad, pbuh, is any more laughable than an angel visiting Mary (or Abraham) - but hey, what you find funny and illogical is up to you. )

Cheers,
Shafique

[Shafique]

Let me clarify, are you ever going to explain why your stance is that Christianity can't stand up to logic, or are you just going to keep trying to find some Islamic teachings that offend logic?

The difference between us is that I've stated (and can show) that Islam does not require us to give up logic. You have stated that we can't understand Christian theology if we DON'T give up human logic.

Please explain your understanding of the principle behind your belief and then I'll go back and explain the logic of the remaining questions you've just lobbed out.

Cheers,
Shafique

[shaad_lko]

Can you craft an exchange of how a non believer might be responded to the following q?

Can you please explain the logic of an angel visiting an Arab in a cave to give him a revelation, that appears to be a hybrid of holy books already written, and where those other followers rejected mohammad?

This can be explained using the phenomenological approach - appearance of Prophets is a known Semitic phenomenon. Moreover, the Quran attests to the character of Muhammad (sws) - his previous forty years of truthful and honest living as a proof of the veracity of his Prophethood. A good work on this is Bennabi's Quranic Phenomenon..

[hyd]

1.the Koran teaches everything was made from water
Quranic descriptions of creation spans the creation of the universe, humans and animals in general, the creation of angels and jinn. So not 'everything is made from water'. The descriptions are figurative ('ringing clay' is a reference to being made from minerals and water, for example) and in total in accordance with science. Nothing illogical at all here. I'm sure this has been covered in other threads on Islam and science.

Noted something here so I'll point out, Jude has used very poor or faulty translation. That's not what the verse says, verse says God has created life out of water.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (The Noble Quran, 21:30)"