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Thread: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

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    Default Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    The Lord who rules over all says, ‘In those days ten people from all languages and nations will grasp hold of – indeed, grab – the robe of one Jew and say, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you. (Zechariah 8:23)

    This verse is talking about after the transformation of the earth where everyone on this planet will know God and want to worship him and will seek a Jew for guidence. So my question is, what if the Jews are right and that Jesus was just like other false Messiah who wasn't pose to come till the earth had changed? You can watch a lecture by a Jew who talks about what the Messiah is pose to do when he will come.

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    If the Jews are right, arent the Muslims wrong since we do accept Jesus as a righteous Prophet?
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    That also puzzles me.
    The fact that the Quran says Jesus is the king yet he didn't fulfill the OT prophecy. but what makes me believe in the Quran is the miracles and scientific facts. So I'm kinda puzzled as he should of done everything in his lifetime on earth.
    We also don't have anything about a second comming of the King so this second comming is like a new teaching that isn't supported in the OT. I'm gona have to find a Jewish-muslim and see if he can help me see what made him change and believe that Jesus is the King ect. That's the only way I will understand this confusion.

    And the fact that everyone will come to a Jew as Zechariah 8:23 says for guidence. The writer didn't say "Israel" to show that it's from Abraham (cause he wasn't a Jew or Christian) but from the "Jews"
    Last edited by Moonlight; 25th July 2012 at 18:43.
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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight View Post
    Quran says Jesus is the king
    Quran doesn't say that, it says Jesus (p) was the Messiah, but implication maybe different from current understanding of the Jews. A jew once said Mohammad (p) did everything the Messiah suppose to do (almost) but he isn't the Messiah. I don't know how that fits in.

    As for the second coming, Quran is silent on the issue, but it is possible there might be hint in there. So it may or may not be true.

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight View Post
    That also puzzles me.
    The fact that the Quran says Jesus is the king yet he didn't fulfill the OT prophecy. but what makes me believe in the Quran is the miracles and scientific facts. So I'm kinda puzzled as he should of done everything in his lifetime on earth.
    We also don't have anything about a second comming of the King so this second comming is like a new teaching that isn't supported in the OT. I'm gona have to find a Jewish-muslim and see if he can help me see what made him change and believe that Jesus is the King ect. That's the only way I will understand this confusion.

    And the fact that everyone will come to a Jew as Zechariah 8:23 says for guidence. The writer didn't say "Israel" to show that it's from Abraham (cause he wasn't a Jew or Christian) but from the "Jews"

    Have you ever examined the beliefs of those Chabad who still believe that the late Rebbe Schneerson is Moshiach? When he was alive, many Chabad believed he was Moshiach. When he died, some stopped believing, since he did not fulfill all of the prophecies concerning the moshiach. There are those who still believe that he is the Moshiach and will return again, and when he returns he will finish fulfilling the prophecies. (There are even some who liken him unto God.)

    I realize that this does not directly answer your specific question regarding Jesus, but I think that indirectly you can find some answers through the parallels.

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    Salaam hyd ^^

    A jew once said Mohammad (p) did everything the Messiah suppose to do (almost) but he isn't the Messiah
    I had that same thought too and it's amazing how Muhammad and his beloved followers didn't see him as a Messiah but a Prophet from God.


    Salaam PouringRain ^^

    Have you ever examined the beliefs of those Chabad who still believe that the late Rebbe Schneerson is Moshiach? When he was alive, many Chabad believed he was Moshiach. When he died, some stopped believing, since he did not fulfill all of the prophecies concerning the moshiach. There are those who still believe that he is the Moshiach and will return again, and when he returns he will finish fulfilling the prophecies. (There are even some who liken him unto God.)

    I realize that this does not directly answer your specific question regarding Jesus, but I think that indirectly you can find some answers through the parallels.
    I did a wiki search and I'm amazed how this guy had a similar story to Jesus from the bible o_O

    In one of Rabbi Michael Skobac (the guy in the video) lectures he was talking about a book he once read called "when unfuliled prophecys fail" or something like that. And he was saying how people would change there beliefs to keep there faith in the person/religion intact.
    It's Like the seventh day advantist "great dissapointment" where the end never came but they later changed the belief to keep it strong and made a new belief that Jesus came invisable and stuff. The Jehovahs witnesses did the same with there failed dates too and many other sects around the world.
    This Jesus guy is such a hassle, we would have to rely on blind faith which I really don't like. The only reason I believe he could be true is cause of Islam. If it wasn't for Islam I would be a Jew.



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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    peace be upon you.


    Quote Originally Posted by shaad_lko View Post
    If the Jews are right, arent the Muslims wrong since we do accept Jesus as a righteous Prophet?
    The Jews can't be right ,uptill all the so called messianic true prophecies to be fulfilled ,Those prophecies never been fulfilled (but who cares?!)....


    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight
    The fact that the Quran says Jesus is the king
    Nowhere the Quran does say that jesus is a king.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight
    That also puzzles me.
    The fact that the Quran says Jesus is the king yet he didn't fulfill the OT prophecy.
    And that puzzled me as well ,after long time of study and reflection ,I no longer feel puzzled.... it is all solved by answering two questions :

    1- Does the Quran claim that all the writings of the old testament are inspired ,or the Jews fabricated them adding false contents (including imaginary prophecies)?

    2- Does the holy Quran claim that Jesus is the fulfilment of such specific predicted messiah , or merely Jesus had the title messiah "annointed" as many others had before him?

    the topic is big ......more details next post inshallah.....
    Last edited by Egyptian; 20th February 2013 at 18:16.

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    Quran does not says Jesus (pbuh) is the king. I do believe that the most of those prophecies about Messiah in the prophets such as Jeremiah,Zephaniah even in Isaiah are actually for Josiah the King of Judah. I think it was a propaganda in its best for a Davidic King in Judah who wanted take the Kingdom of Israel in North. But when he failed to conquer Israel and lost a war against Egyptians the Jews in his time and later times had a big problem. Because their books now contained many prophecies about this Davidic King. So they just like the Gospels writers reinterpreted all those prophecies for a future time. I also think that Quran calls Jesus(pbuh) messiah because in the environment of Arabia in the time of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) he was known with that title.

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    Quote Originally Posted by turkhun View Post
    I also think that Quran calls Jesus(pbuh) messiah because in the environment of Arabia in the time of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) he was known with that title.
    Maybe, that is one possibility, the Quran categorically states him (pbuh) that he was the messiah in one of the verse, but what it exactly means is not clear. Quran doesn't define the meaning and purpose of the messiah, and it is not relevant for the tenants of faith.

    Read this, it maybe helpful http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah#Islam

    Ummah forum has a good discussion too on the topic: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...s-messiah-mean

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    Thanks to the forum design, I found realted threads to our thread …..I’m going to include my post with some quotations from those other related topics..

    The following quotation answers the first question


    Thanks to the forum design, I found easily the related topics to that topic …..

    I’m going include my post with some quotations from those other related topics..The following quotation answers the second question properly ..Brother " The_Other_Admin " quoted islamonline : Thread: Jesus As Messiah


    Quote Originally Posted by The_Other_Admin
    There are certain other titles that can be applied to more than one prophet, yet are specifically used for only one prophet, like Rasul Allah, meaning “Messenger of God.” This title is applied to both Moses (19:51) and Jesus (61:6) in the Qur’an, yet Rasul Allah among Muslims stands for Muhammad, (peace and blessings be upon him). Indeed, associating certain titles with certain personages does not make them unique on that score. In olden days, priests and kings were anointed as part of the consecration ceremony.
    In others words, calling Jesus the messiah in the Quran, doesn’t automatically requires him to be such SPECIFIC long awaited messiah by the Jews….. moreover , Just as calling Jesus (a word) in the Quran ,doesn't make him (logos) ,the same merely calling him (the messiah) requires him to be (the king messiah).....

    the Quran used some of the terms christians applied to Jesus ,yet it corrects what the terms really mean ..... it is ,as if the Quran wants to convey polemical message saying:

    If you want to call Jesus a word , that is right if it means a by product of the word ,which is applied to all creatures......
    if you want to call him the messiah ,that is right if it mean a honor title for the created annointed great prophet ,son of Mary ,servant of Allah etc.....


    to be continued.

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    The following rest of the quotation by Bro The_other_admin ,would get me into answering the second question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Islamonline
    On the one hand, Muslims accept the Jewish belief that there were prophecies about the coming of the Messiah. On the other hand, they accept the Christian claim that Jesus of Nazareth, son of Mary, was the expected Messiah, though the Jews reject this. It is also worthy of mention that Muslims deny the Christian belief that Jesus was the Son of God, who was to be crucified to atone for Man’s Original Sin.

    The writer comment poses some questions:

    1- Is it fine, and in accordance with the Quran to accept the Jewish belief that there were prophecies about the coming of the Messiah. ?

    Not only there is no mention neither in the quran or sunna , that Jesus or Mohamed peace be upon them were fulfilments to THE PREDICTED SO CALLED KING MESSIAH , but also neither of them could be reasonably qualified to be a fulfilment to such prophecies …

    2- The writer claims that Muslims agree with Christians that Jesus was the expected Messiah?!

    The expected Messiah (the king), or the messiah (prophet)? If the second (which is true), then we disagree with Christians.

    ........................

    Now what about the messianic prophecies ?

    Are you a muslim or christian? if you are a muslim then what is your basis to accept every prophecy in the old testament as truly inspired by God ?!!!
    Isn't it possible that some or most of the prophecies therin are human imaginary prophecies?!

    not only none of the so called prophecies been fulfilled, but also most(if not all) are against the Quranic beliefs.......

    one last word ..... the issue of the messiah is the most important issue ever ,to understand the origin of christianity , I will initiate a thread ,inshallah dedicated to my study on the crucial issue....


    peace
    Last edited by Egyptian; 22nd February 2013 at 14:04.

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    Quote Originally Posted by hyd View Post
    Maybe, that is one possibility, the Quran categorically states him (pbuh) that he was the messiah in one of the verse, but what it exactly means is not clear. Quran doesn't define the meaning and purpose of the messiah, and it is not relevant for the tenants of faith.

    Read this, it maybe helpful http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah#Islam

    Ummah forum has a good discussion too on the topic: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...s-messiah-mean
    Salamun Aleykum,
    I have checked those links. I defiantly agree with you, it is not relevant for the tenants of faith.

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    First where did the word ''Jew '' come from ?

    Also the jews don't accept Isa , Yashu'a , Jesus as the Messiah .

    The holy Qur'aan give much respect to Isa , Yashu'a , Jesus .

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    Exclamation Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    Quote Originally Posted by Iysay View Post
    First where did the word ''Jew '' come from ?

    Also the jews don't accept Isa , Yashu'a , Jesus as the Messiah .

    The holy Qur'aan give much respect to Isa , Yashu'a , Jesus .

    In order to Understand any ( Verse ) in the Holy Qur'aan and the Bible one (Must ) read the ( Verses ) Before and After the verse one is speaking about , Meaning Zechariah 8:23 , Is speaking about
    ( Jerusalem Will Be Blessed ) Zechariah 8 ; 1 - 23 ,

    The Holy Qur'aan ( Never Disrespect ) Isa son of Mary ( Pbuh ) according to the Holy Quir'aan that is .

    Ibn Maryam ( Jesus , Son Of Mary ) ; 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 ,

    As the Son of Mary , Ibn Maryam ) alone or with some other title; 5 ; 19 ( twice ), 49 ; 78 , 113 , 115 , 117 , 119 , 9 ; 31 , 19 ; 34 ,

    Once as the sign of the hour -- Alamus Saa'ati ) ; 43 ; 61

    As Rasuwl , 2 ; 87 , 3 ; 49 , 4 ; 157 , 5 ; 78 , 57 ; 27 ,

    Isa is mentioned on the Qur'an named in conjuction with other Prophets ; 2; 136 , 3 ; 84 , 4 ; 163 , 5 ; 81 , 33 ; 7 ,

    Isa occurs in connection with Ar Ruhu -- as often as five times in the Qur'an. 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 5 ; 110 , 4 ; 171 , 21 ; 91 ,

    Isa is mentioned as of those near ( to Allah ) , Min Al Muqarrabiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

    Isa is mentioned as of the righteous - Min As Salihiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

    The Messiah Isa is mentioned as Al Masih -- the Messiah ) 11 times in the once ; 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 , 4 ; 172 , 5 ; 19 ( twice ) 5 ; 75 ( twice ) 5 ; 78 , 9 ; 30 , 9 ; 31 . < Just to name a few

    My point here is The Jews , Are the only one who don't accept the Isa , Yashu'a , Jesus Christ as the Messiah / God etc etc .

    Let not forget 85% of the Religious Books are written by Jews , Which control the Religious media .

    Now before anyone say I'm Anti-jew , I'm not anti-anything when it come to Religion , That's if we're going to be real . Again I ask the question where did the word ''Jew '' come from ?

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    Default Re: Jewish view of the Earth change and the Messiah

    Quote Originally Posted by Iysay View Post
    In order to Understand any ( Verse ) in the Holy Qur'aan and the Bible one (Must ) read the ( Ibn Maryam ( Jesus , Son Of Mary )
    As the Son of Mary , Ibn Maryam ) alone or with some other title; 5 ; 19 ( twice ), 49 ; 78 , 113 , 115 , 117 , 119 , 9 ; 31 , 19 ; 34 ,?
    Just calling Jesus "son of Mary" is disrespecting, because God refers to Him as His son. He is the son of God. How would you like being called son of your mother or calling Muhammad son of his mother? Everyone has or had a father!

    Quote Originally Posted by Iysay View Post
    Now before anyone say I'm Anti-jew , I'm not anti-anything when it come to Religion ,
    Yea right, but you are when it comes to nationality and race. But you actually are anti Christian religion; so, you are not even truthful to yourself; so, how can you be truthful to people?
    Jesus is not valued (at all) unless he is valued above all. Augustine

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