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Thread: CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

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    Post CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

    CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

    It is a serious notice for any earnest believer of Islam, when above remark comes from Dr. Al-Hilali (Professor Islamic University, Medina) 1 who also points that: ‘a Muslim never lacks proofs about the purity and truthfulness of his religion, but what he lacks is the truthful brothers who stand for Allah testifying to the Truth’. Indeed, in this age, Islam is a religion without men who can appropriately utilize Qur’an’s rational-ethical holistic knowledge for the cause of true Islam. And Christianity is men without religion, yet by their endeavour, adventurous spirits, patience and worldly power they are able to falsify truth and make falsehoods appear true.

    In order to spur the believers’ penchant for Truth Qur’an guides: “read scripture (iqra)”, “see (yaraw)”, “travel (fa-siiruu)” and “observe (fa-anzuru)”. Within about hundred years (800 AD) early Muslims had traveled from Arabia to different parts of the world and kindled the novel ideas in science and learning; and they achieved world ‘intellectual supremacy’ which continued for about 500-600 years. They established educational centers and the Europeans learned much from these early Muslims. After Crusades the Christian Europe awoke and eventually turned out to be the leader of present materialistic civilization where the new role of Europe began to stand against Islam. Islam being the culminating epilogue of Prophetic religions before dissolution of earth - has begun to spread universally as the fastest growing religion on earth. Over 1400 years have past now since birth of Islam; but it is quite evident that present Muslims show clear signs of lapses and sit now just opposite to vitality of early Muslims’ sacred brilliance. And modern Christianity is no more heedful to God, instead is disposed to the paganized Christian brilliance. Thus the last two people of Book (Christians and Muslims) have sundered their Tawhidic religion by Takhsis (reductionism) and Tahrif (deviation); and both are drifting away from holistic Truth. Such spell of religious darkness within God’s tradition can not usurp unless Satan and his hands gain ascendancy in the very name of God, and are able to hoodwink believers by steering them from within.

    (i) ‘Obedience’ without ‘knowledge’ is Takhsis, and not Tawhid:

    Believer’s ‘obedience’ to Allah is lifeless unless there is constant ‘yearning for Truth’. Dr. Husaini (p. 21) 2 pointed that: in recent centuries, by turning their backs on observable and knowable signs Muslims became like those ‘blinded people of civilization’ (qawmun ‘amin, Q, 7:64), deaf, dumb, and blind without any rational knowledge (Q, 2:171). Religious leadership has uphill task in orienting the ‘last scripture bearers’ especially because the Guidance of Qur’anic Revelation has twofold dimensions: ‘spiritual’ and ‘rational’. Qur’anic unitary or holistic (Tawhid) knowledge (‘ilm) has a ‘rational’ (‘aqaliyyah) part knowable by all human beings since God has made them accessible through ‘rational reasoning’. The other part of ‘ilm is value oriented or ideological; it is based on a tradition (any shari’ah) that may be a religion or a secular belief system. The integration or unification of these two parts is Tawhid (see Husaini, p. 33); and such integration demands profundity of holistic understanding both vertically and horizontally. Here any ‘reductionism’ of narrow sectarianism is derogatory because seeker’s vision should not close within ‘words of the Book’, it must extend to view the polyvalent symbolism in Revelation (ta’wil), its aftermath in the human history in terms of linguistics, science, sociology and comparative religions etc. The Huffaz preserve Qur’an in memory, but role of Mufassir and teachers is to serve the cause of ‘ilm that God has made accessible through natural reason in order to remove the snags of spiritual awareness. Here every step demands precaution that ‘the word of God’ is not manipulated to fulfill one’s self-will; personal interests have no room in Tafsîr (‘to make clear’). In this context, one must not confuse ‘sacred wisdom’ with profane religiose flairs; the former arouses in believers the inner calls of holistic Truth, but the later invest knowledge to attract and absorb lesser minds by the pulls of sentimental grounds. Unaware believers tend to count any brilliance as ‘gold’ that exalts in the very name of God and glitters by overly iterating the scripture. Inordinate inclinations for personality cult and bigot sectarianism lead to passive Shirk. Prophet Muhammad has said: “Shirk in Muslim nation is more inconspicuous than the creeping of the black ant on a black rock in the pitch darkness of the night” (Al-Bukhari, Introduction page. L, op.cit). History tells us how the many past traditions have been categorically atrophied by the crafty and solicitous masters who exalt at cost of wanting believers – without exacting the seeker’s sense of responsibility, commitment, and penchant for Truth.

    In the state of decline, Allah commanded believers (in Surah Al-‘asr) to join together in mutual enjoining of Truth (tawaasaw bil-Haqqi) along with good deeds, patience and constancy (Q, 103:3). In search of religious vision, if the light of Qur’an, in stead of looking through the darkness, is turned back toward own eyes – it only leads to blindness. Divine Light (Missal) comes in essence not for the sake of shining a person or an Institution – but to show the path of Real and remove the snags of Unreal. The Tawhidic sense of the word ‘Muslim’ in Qur’an goes astray for those followers who revolve more around the ‘bigot sectarianism’ rather than evolving in terms of ‘purification of Soul’ (see Q, 87: 14-15). If ritualism alone was enough to purify then warning from Allah would not have come to the ardently ritualistic Jews (once chosen people) for their persistent wrong doings: ‘Your new moons and your appointed feasts My Soul hateth: they are a trouble unto Me….when ye make many prayers, I will not hear…’ (Isa, 1: 14-15)

    As regard lapses of present Muslims, the most relevant words of wisdom came from Imam al-Ghazali - the greatest of the Islamic scholars of all times and one of the most influential intellectuals in the history of mankind – who profoundly influenced the Christian scholastics, but it was not so in the case of his succeeding Muslims. ‘Within forty years of his death (1111 AD), most of his books had been translated into Latin…His ideas were transmitted to generations of Europeans who studied them in new universities of Europe patterned on Muslim models; and this initiated the renaissance of Europe and the reformation of Christianity’ (Husaini, p. 35, op.cit). Imam al-Ghazali reminded about a thousand years ago that most of the Muslims are not holistic or Tawhidic Muslim; they are reductionist Muslim (Takhsisiyyun). They have restricted Qur’an and Islam to the “five pillars”, personal morality etc and excluded from them Islamic natural sciences, technology, and economics etc. Thus tradition gets categorically depleted of the vitality of ‘ilm. Every valid discipline, vocation, or science is an ‘ilm which has its origin in the Qur’an in a general or in a specific sense. The sciences which are knowable are based upon man’s natural reason (‘aql) and experience; and are called natural or rational (tabi’iyyah, ‘aqaliyyah) sciences. Hence God commanded (Q, 29:19) believers to ‘see’ ‘observe’ and ‘travel’; thus constant striving for knowledge and application of all discipline is an Islamic duty (Fard) and necessity. Dr. Husaini informs: ‘in his book (Kitab al-‘ilm, i.e. Book of knowledge) Imam Ghazali has pointed that reductionism (takhsis) is the one major cause that deviated (tahrif) Muslims from the true knowledge of Qur’an. For example, the word 'fiqh' in Qur’an means understanding, a science, and any or all knowledge in the holistic sense. But fiqh was reduced to mean only Islamic law; and gradually Islamic fiqh or knowledge was confined to only Islamic personal law’.

    ‘Ulûm al-Qur’an’ – the Sciences of the Qur’an, is not a new field of study; it began in the very lifetime of Prophet Muhammad which included all aspects related to understanding of the Qur’an. But the later Muslims excluded the duty of ‘holistic truth seeking’ and banked more upon a ritualistic platform; this may have helped them to expand, but only in horizontal sense and not in terms of vertical depth. Thus numbers of Munafiq increase rather than Allah's Muslim. Hence present Muslims so easily succumb to worldly pleasure and its glitters. Prophet Muhammad has narrated to his companion Sasban (R.A) in Hadith 3 that Muslims with the passage of time shall spread all over, and then they will suffer loss of spiritual vitality due to their leaning for worldly lust and fear for death. Another Hadith mentioned that they will gradually turn into the likes of decrepit Ummat of Jews and Christians. A time will come when Islam would be capsized as a pot is capsized with all its contents. Allah protects believers but does not spare them from being put on trial: “Verily in this are Signs and We put men to test" (Q, 23: 30). From guidance of Qur’an it is conceivable that to prevent such decline, tradition demands believer’s constant striving for Truth by shaking off the desires of worldly gains, pleasures, pomp and glitters that Allah has granted for temporal enjoyment of the ‘sinners’ rather than His true believers (see Q, 11: 15-16; 20: 131). Transcending the apparent lapses, Islam shall reign supreme again following the second wave of Muhammadis 4. Present Scripture bearers have a call up lesson in the Qur’anic Revelation when it forewarns those spoiled people of the past Scripture bearers – who were abandoned because their wrong doings, yet they went on hoping for too long while their allotted terms had expired.

    ‘O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from faith, soon will God produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him, (these people) humble towards believers, stern towards disbelievers, striving in the way of God, and fearing not the blame of any blamer. Such is the grace of God which He giveth unto whom He will.’ (Q, 5: 54); ‘because God will never change the Grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their own souls: and verily God is He Who heareth and knoweth all things.’ (Q, 8: 53)

    ‘The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the *** carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny Revelations of God: and God guides not people who do wrong.’ (Q, 62: 5)

    (ii) ‘Knowledge’ without ‘obedience’ is Takhsis, and not Tawhid:

    Without obedience Allah never guides man; and in absence of obedience man’s yearning for Truth continues to wander in the vagueness until it turns lame. Defying Qur’an since 19th century Christian Scholars are especially trying to patronize ‘realm of theology’ exclusively within Bible. Judeo-Christian history revealed how these people of past scriptures had been categorically atrophied by the spells of many ‘master minds’ of the religion. At present there are signs of revivals within Christian world especially after realizing how the present Bible versions mislead Christianity from the implied senses of the original Hebrew words. In this effort of truth-seeking, if their cherishes of ‘self-will’ become more important than the ‘Will of God’ – then all their painstaking works will add another dimension to religious deviations via reductionism with which the early quasi-pagan usurpers of Christianity have already inflicted enough damage to their religion. As regard Christian revival, the question is: does God approve reductionism (takhsis) in exegesis (i.e. loud with Bible’s message by denying Qur’an or vice versa; in other word, heedful about ‘penultimate Revelation’ but heedless about the ‘ultimate one’!). Different orthodoxies like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam etc came form God because: whenever the religious vitality of a tradition depletes, God restores it again by creating a newer orthodoxy. After Judeo-Christianity drifted categorically from the sacred Oneness of God, the Qur’an came to restore the religion of God in a world different from that of the Biblical times - and it is the last Revelation before dissolution of the earth. Any effort to gravitate towards God demands attention to God’s final Message in Qur’an. Now if a section tries to find its ‘identity’ via mode of bigot reductionism – it only breaches the universal Oneness of God (Tawhid), rather than it reaches to Yah-El/Yahweh-Elohim/Allah.
    [This post is from my published Article in 'Articlebsae com']

    References:
    1. In introductory part of (p. liv) “The Translation of the Meanings of Sahih Al-Bukhari” Vol.I,
    Trans. by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Islamic University, Madina Al-Munawwara, (Kitab
    Bhavan, New Delhi)
    2. Husaini, S Waqar Ahmed, 2005. The Qur’an for Astronomy and Earth Exploration from Space.
    (Goodward Press, New Delhi). Author (Ph.D, Engineering-Economic System Planning.,
    Stanford Univ. California) is the Founder-President, Institute of Islamic Sciences, Technology &
    Development since 1986.
    3. Abu – Daus, Miscat from Baihaki, Babe Tagyarunnas; Miscat of Allahma Kutubuddin Khan
    Dehlavi (R.A)
    4. ‘Sabhatul marjan fi tariqi Hindustan’, Chapt. I, Risala ma-arif, p. 88, 1975 (Feb), Babu Kurbus
    Shah.
    Last edited by Dr.P.R.Palodhi; 14th July 2012 at 17:16.

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    Default Re: CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

    It is not religion we need or that does us any good; it is a relationship with God that is needed and that does us good!
    Man's greatest wisdom is foolishness to God, but the fear of the Lord is the beginning of true wisdom and knowledge!

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    Question Re: CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    It is not religion we need or that does us any good; it is a relationship with God that is needed and that does us good!
    Man's greatest wisdom is foolishness to God, but the fear of the Lord is the beginning of true wisdom and knowledge!

    Why would anyone have to ( Fear the Creator ) ?????

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    Default Re: CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

    Quote Originally Posted by Iysay View Post
    Why would anyone have to ( Fear the Creator ) ?????
    When one fears the Lord, He is less likely to sin against Him. So, you don't fear the Lord? Jesus said fear not him who kills the body and after can do nothing more, but fear Him who is able to kill the body and after that Has power to cast into hell fire forever So, do you or do you not fear God?

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    Default Re: CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    When one fears the Lord, He is less likely to sin against Him. So, you don't fear the Lord? Jesus said fear not him who kills the body and after can do nothing more, but fear Him who is able to kill the body and after that Has power to cast into hell fire forever So, do you or do you not fear God?

    I have ask you before what , GOD , God , god are you speaking about here ?

    Is this the reason why you fear your GOD , God , god ? According to your By-Bill it states and I Quote ;

    Exodus 22 ; 20 , States And I Quote ; He That Sacrificeth unto Any God save unto the Lord Only , he Shall Be Utterly Destroyed .
    < Death to those of another religion K.J.V. >

    2Chronicles 15 ; 12 - 13 , States And I Quote ; And they entered into a Covenant to seek the Lord God of their Fathers with all their heart and with all their soul . Verse 13 . That whosoever would Not Seek The Lord God Of Israel Should Be Put To Death whether small or great whether Man or Woman . < Death to Un-believer K.J.V. >

    Zechariah 13 ; 3 ,States And I Quote ; And it shall come to pass , that when Any shall yet Prophesy , then his Father and his Mother that Begat Him shall say unto him , Thou Shalt not Live for thou Speakest Lies in the Name of the Lord ; and his Father and his Mother that Begat Him Shall Thrust Him Through when he Prophesieth < Death to other prophets K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 13 ; 13 - 19 , States And I Quote ; Certain Men the Children of Belial are gone out from among you , and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city , saying . Let us go and Serve Other Gods which ye have not known . Verse 14 . Then shalt thou inquire , and make search , and Ask Diligently and , behold , if it be Truth and the Thing certain , that such abomination Is Wrought Among you . Verse 15 . Thou Shalt surely Smite The Inhabitants Of That City with the Edge Of The Sword Destroying It Utterly , and all that is therein , and the Cattle thereof , with the Edge Of The Sword . Verse 16 . And thou Shalt Gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof , and Shalt Burn With Fire The City , And all the spoil thereof every Whit for the Lord Thy God ; and it shall be an heap Forever it shall not be built again . Verse 17 . And there shall cleave Naught of the Cursed Thing to thine hand ; that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger , and show thee mercy , and Have Compassion upon thee , and multiply thee , as he Hath Sworn unto thy fathers ; Verse 18 . When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the Lord Thy God , to keep all his commandments which I Command thee this Day to do that which is right in the eyes of the Lord Thy God . < Death to those who worship another God K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 22 ; 20 - 21 , States And I Quote ; But if this Thing be True , and the tokens of Virginity be not found for the Damsel . Verse 21 . They they shall bring out the Damsel to the door of her Father's House , and the Men of Her City shall Stone Her With Stones that she Die , Because she Hath Wrought folly in Israel , to Play The Whore in her father house ; so shalt thou evil way from among you . < Death to woman who are not Virgin K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 13 ; 7 - 12 ,States And I Quote ; Namely of the gods of the People which are round about you night unto thee , or far off from thee , from the one end of the Earth even unto the other end of the earth . Verse 8 . Thou Shalt not Consent unto him , nor Hearken unto him ; neither shall thine eye pity him , neither shalt thou spare , neither Shalt thou Conceal . Verse 9 . But thou shalt surely kill him thine Hand shall be First upon him to Put Him To Death , and afterwards the hand of all the people . Verse 10 .
    And thou shalt stone him with stones that he Die , because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God , which brought thee out of the land of Egypt , from the house of bonfage . Verse 11 . And all Israel Shalt Hear and fear , and shall do no more any such Wickedness as this is among you . Verse 12 . If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there , saying . < Death to those of other religiion K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 17 ; 2 - 5 , States And I Quote ; If there be found Among you within any of thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee , Man or Woman that Hath Wrought Wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God in Transgressing his Covenant . Verse 3 . And haith gone and Served other gods and Worshiped them either the sun , or moon , or any of the Host of Heaven which I Have not Commanded . Verse 4 . And it Betold thee , and thou Hast Heard of it , and inquired Diligently and behold , it be true , and the thing certain ; that such abomination is wrought in Israel , Verse 5 . Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman , which have committed that Wicked thing , unto thy gates , even that man or that woman , and shalt stone them with stones , till they Die . < Death to those of other religiion K.J.V. >


    Leviticus 24 ; 10 -16 , States And I Quote ; And the son of an Israelitish Woman whose father was an Egyptain , went out among the children of Israel and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the Camp . Verse 11 . And the Israelitish woman's son Blasphemed the name of the Lord and Cursed . And they brought him unto Moses ; ( and his mother's name was Shelomith , the daughter of Dibri , of the Tribe of Dan ; ) . Verse 12 . And they put him in ward that the Mind of the Lord might be showed them . Verse 13 . And the Lord spake unto Moses saying . Verse 14 . Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp ; and let all that Heard him lay their Hands upon his Head and let all the Congregation stone him . Verse . 15 . And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel , saying , Whosoever Curseth his God Shalt Beat his sin . Verse 16 . And he that Blasphemeth the name of the Lord , he shall surely be put to death , and all the congregation shall certainly stone him ; as well the Stranger as he that is born in the land , when he Blasphemeth the name of the Lord , Shall Be Put To Death . <Shall Be Put To Death . K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 13 ; 1 - 5 , States And I Quote ; If there arise Among you a Prophet or a dreamer of dreams , and giveth thee a Sign or a wonder , Verse 2 . And the sign or the wonder come to pass , whereof he Spake unto thee saying , Let us go after other gods which thou Hast not Known and let us Serve them . Verse 3 . Thou Shalt not Hearken unto the Words of that Prophet , or that dreamer of dreams ; for the Lord your God Proveth you , to know whether ye Love the Lord your God with all your Heart and with all your Soul .Verse 4 . Ye shall walk after the Lord your God . and Fear him and Keep his commandments , and Obey his voice , and ye shall serve him , and cleave unto him . Verse 5 . And that Prophet , or that dreamer of dreams , Shall Be Put To Death because he Hath Spoken to Turn you Away from the Lord your God which brought you out of the land of Egypt , and Redeemed you out of the House of Bondage to thrust thee out of the Way which the Lord thy God Commanded thee to walk in . So shalt thou put the Evil away from the midst of thee . <Shall Be Put To Death . K.J.V. >

    Is this the reason why you fear your GOD , God , god . To answer your question , I fear no man no God . Why would one have to fear their GOD , God , god ???

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    Default Re: CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

    Quote Originally Posted by Iysay View Post
    I have ask you before what , GOD , God , god are you speaking about here ?
    How many God's do you believe in? Who is God, God and god? Are you referring to Allah's 3 daughters? Did you not know that there is only one almighty God? He is the one almighty God I fear. Did you not know the Bible states the Lord our God is one who has no equal or partner? You are avoiding the question and subtly trying to change the topic of our discussion to God's tri unity when the topic is about fearing God. We were speaking of fearing God the one God and you asked why should one fear Him? Don't change the topic of the discussion to worm out of it. You made it sound like fearing the one true God is wrong. Do you or do you not fear the one and only true almighty God? It is a simple question.

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    Default Re: CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

    Quote Originally Posted by Iysay View Post
    I have ask you before what , GOD , God , god are you speaking about here ?

    Is this the reason why you fear your GOD , God , god ? According to your By-Bill it states and I Quote ;

    Exodus 22 ; 20 , States And I Quote ; He That Sacrificeth unto Any God save unto the Lord Only , he Shall Be Utterly Destroyed .
    < Death to those of another religion K.J.V. >

    2Chronicles 15 ; 12 - 13 , States And I Quote ; And they entered into a Covenant to seek the Lord God of their Fathers with all their heart and with all their soul . Verse 13 . That whosoever would Not Seek The Lord God Of Israel Should Be Put To Death whether small or great whether Man or Woman . < Death to Un-believer K.J.V. >

    Zechariah 13 ; 3 ,States And I Quote ; And it shall come to pass , that when Any shall yet Prophesy , then his Father and his Mother that Begat Him shall say unto him , Thou Shalt not Live for thou Speakest Lies in the Name of the Lord ; and his Father and his Mother that Begat Him Shall Thrust Him Through when he Prophesieth < Death to other prophets K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 13 ; 13 - 19 , States And I Quote ; Certain Men the Children of Belial are gone out from among you , and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city , saying . Let us go and Serve Other Gods which ye have not known . Verse 14 . Then shalt thou inquire , and make search , and Ask Diligently and , behold , if it be Truth and the Thing certain , that such abomination Is Wrought Among you . Verse 15 . Thou Shalt surely Smite The Inhabitants Of That City with the Edge Of The Sword Destroying It Utterly , and all that is therein , and the Cattle thereof , with the Edge Of The Sword . Verse 16 . And thou Shalt Gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof , and Shalt Burn With Fire The City , And all the spoil thereof every Whit for the Lord Thy God ; and it shall be an heap Forever it shall not be built again . Verse 17 . And there shall cleave Naught of the Cursed Thing to thine hand ; that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger , and show thee mercy , and Have Compassion upon thee , and multiply thee , as he Hath Sworn unto thy fathers ; Verse 18 . When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the Lord Thy God , to keep all his commandments which I Command thee this Day to do that which is right in the eyes of the Lord Thy God . < Death to those who worship another God K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 22 ; 20 - 21 , States And I Quote ; But if this Thing be True , and the tokens of Virginity be not found for the Damsel . Verse 21 . They they shall bring out the Damsel to the door of her Father's House , and the Men of Her City shall Stone Her With Stones that she Die , Because she Hath Wrought folly in Israel , to Play The Whore in her father house ; so shalt thou evil way from among you . < Death to woman who are not Virgin K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 13 ; 7 - 12 ,States And I Quote ; Namely of the gods of the People which are round about you night unto thee , or far off from thee , from the one end of the Earth even unto the other end of the earth . Verse 8 . Thou Shalt not Consent unto him , nor Hearken unto him ; neither shall thine eye pity him , neither shalt thou spare , neither Shalt thou Conceal . Verse 9 . But thou shalt surely kill him thine Hand shall be First upon him to Put Him To Death , and afterwards the hand of all the people . Verse 10 .
    And thou shalt stone him with stones that he Die , because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God , which brought thee out of the land of Egypt , from the house of bonfage . Verse 11 . And all Israel Shalt Hear and fear , and shall do no more any such Wickedness as this is among you . Verse 12 . If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there , saying . < Death to those of other religiion K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 17 ; 2 - 5 , States And I Quote ; If there be found Among you within any of thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee , Man or Woman that Hath Wrought Wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God in Transgressing his Covenant . Verse 3 . And haith gone and Served other gods and Worshiped them either the sun , or moon , or any of the Host of Heaven which I Have not Commanded . Verse 4 . And it Betold thee , and thou Hast Heard of it , and inquired Diligently and behold , it be true , and the thing certain ; that such abomination is wrought in Israel , Verse 5 . Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman , which have committed that Wicked thing , unto thy gates , even that man or that woman , and shalt stone them with stones , till they Die . < Death to those of other religiion K.J.V. >


    Leviticus 24 ; 10 -16 , States And I Quote ; And the son of an Israelitish Woman whose father was an Egyptain , went out among the children of Israel and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the Camp . Verse 11 . And the Israelitish woman's son Blasphemed the name of the Lord and Cursed . And they brought him unto Moses ; ( and his mother's name was Shelomith , the daughter of Dibri , of the Tribe of Dan ; ) . Verse 12 . And they put him in ward that the Mind of the Lord might be showed them . Verse 13 . And the Lord spake unto Moses saying . Verse 14 . Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp ; and let all that Heard him lay their Hands upon his Head and let all the Congregation stone him . Verse . 15 . And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel , saying , Whosoever Curseth his God Shalt Beat his sin . Verse 16 . And he that Blasphemeth the name of the Lord , he shall surely be put to death , and all the congregation shall certainly stone him ; as well the Stranger as he that is born in the land , when he Blasphemeth the name of the Lord , Shall Be Put To Death . <Shall Be Put To Death . K.J.V. >

    Deuteronomy 13 ; 1 - 5 , States And I Quote ; If there arise Among you a Prophet or a dreamer of dreams , and giveth thee a Sign or a wonder , Verse 2 . And the sign or the wonder come to pass , whereof he Spake unto thee saying , Let us go after other gods which thou Hast not Known and let us Serve them . Verse 3 . Thou Shalt not Hearken unto the Words of that Prophet , or that dreamer of dreams ; for the Lord your God Proveth you , to know whether ye Love the Lord your God with all your Heart and with all your Soul .Verse 4 . Ye shall walk after the Lord your God . and Fear him and Keep his commandments , and Obey his voice , and ye shall serve him , and cleave unto him . Verse 5 . And that Prophet , or that dreamer of dreams , Shall Be Put To Death because he Hath Spoken to Turn you Away from the Lord your God which brought you out of the land of Egypt , and Redeemed you out of the House of Bondage to thrust thee out of the Way which the Lord thy God Commanded thee to walk in . So shalt thou put the Evil away from the midst of thee . <Shall Be Put To Death . K.J.V. >

    Is this the reason why you fear your GOD , God , god . To answer your question , I fear no man no God . Why would one have to fear their GOD , God , god ???
    More in next post

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    Default Re: CHRISTIANITY: Men without religion / ISLAM: Religion without men

    You sent me all these Scriptures and you have yet to send more, and after all our posts, you still didn't address the topic of discussion, lol

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