Do Muslims believe in old testament prophecy or are we to ignore it?

[truth_is_reason]

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

There are many scriptures like these from the old testament.

As a Muslim you have to ignore God's word from scripture written long before Muhammad appeared to deny that Christ is in fact God with us.

You claim that the scriptures were misinterpreted but there are litterally 100's of ancient manuscripts cleary stating that Jesus is the son of God.

These manuscripts were around long before the evil Christian scolars "twisted the scripture".

Come now, you forsake the clear teaching of all the prophets for this one Muhammad who on his own thinks he has a right to redefine scripture.

Do you not know your own law, all legitimate testimony must be backed by 2 or more witness's.

I can't understand how you can take Muhammad's word over all other prophets, it just doesn't make sense.

[Moonlight]

Again the verses you're using are out of context. Here's the real prophecy for the Christ.

Certainly you will see it with your very own eyes –
you will see the wicked paid back.
No harm will overtake you;
no illness will come near your home.
For he will order his angels
to protect you in all you do.
They will lift you up in their hands,
so you will not slip and fall on a stone.
The Lord says,
“Because he is devoted to me, I will deliver him;
I will protect him because he is loyal to me.
When he calls out to me, I will answer him.
I will be with him when he is in trouble;
[B/]I will rescue him and bring him honor.[/B]
I will satisfy him with long life,
and will let him see my salvation. (Psalm 91:8, 10-12, 14-16)

Remmber the test that Jesus had to go through and Satan wanted to see if he really was the chosen one? Even Satan knew that the Christ can not die and here's proof:

and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” (Matthew 4:6)

Satan knows that God will protect the christ and he wanted Jesus to prove to him that he is what he claims to be.

Psalm 91 is the real prophecy, Study it.

[truth_is_reason]

Again the verses you're using are out of context. Here's the real prophecy for the Christ.

Certainly you will see it with your very own eyes –
you will see the wicked paid back.
No harm will overtake you;
no illness will come near your home.
For he will order his angels
to protect you in all you do.
They will lift you up in their hands,
so you will not slip and fall on a stone.
The Lord says,
“Because he is devoted to me, I will deliver him;
I will protect him because he is loyal to me.
When he calls out to me, I will answer him.
I will be with him when he is in trouble;
[B/]I will rescue him and bring him honor.[/B]
I will satisfy him with long life,
and will let him see my salvation. (Psalm 91:8, 10-12, 14-16)

Remmber the test that Jesus had to go through and Satan wanted to see if he really was the chosen one? Even Satan knew that the Christ can not die and here's proof:

and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” (Matthew 4:6)

Satan knows that God will protect the christ and he wanted Jesus to prove to him that he is what he claims to be.

Psalm 91 is the real prophecy, Study it.

Sorry but how exactly did I take those versus out of context. What are they supposed to mean?

As for him not being able to die:
PROPHECY: "By arrest and judgement He was taken away: And who shall speak of His descendants? For He was cut off from the land of the living: For the transgression of my people was He stricken."--Isaiah 53:8. (Prophecy given 712 B.C.)

Yes, ofcourse he could have prevented it and he didnt even want to do it but he said to God: "Lord, take this cup away from me but if I must drink it let your will be done". He knew that his death and resurrection was God's plan so in prefect dicipline he took it on.

[Moonlight]

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index....ies&Itemid=507

[truth_is_reason]

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index....ies&Itemid=507

That entire article tries to substitute all prophecies about Jesus with the people of Israel.

First of all that is a long long shot and entirely unconvincing. The scripture is clearly talking about a man, a real, living, breathing man. Don't try and say its a metaphore for Israel, thats pushing the boudaries of imagination too far and makes a deperate argument.

Secondly, are you Jewish? And if not, why do you adhere to the most imaginative interpretations of Jewish scripture yet deny everything else they believe?

[Moonlight]

Nothing to do with Jesus >_> why do you Christains always twist the scriptures to suit your false teachings? Why can't you just summit to the creator without getting into debates with the world?

As for my religion:"Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)


"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

"Do not trust in princes, (royal familys)
or in human beings,(founders of sects) who cannot deliver! (they can't lead you to God)
... How blessed is the one whose helper is the God of Jacob, (Islam)
whose hope is in the Lord his God," (Psalm 146:3, 5 NET)

Turn to me so you can be delivered,
all you who live in the earth’s remote regions!
For I am God, and I have no peer.
*I solemnly make this oath –
what I say is true and reliable:
‘Surely every knee will bow to me,
every tongue will solemnly affirm; (Isaiah 45:22, 23 NET)

Stop trusting in human beings,
whose life’s breath is in their nostrils.
For why should they be given special consideration? (Isaiah 2:22 NET)

[truth_is_reason]

Nothing to do with Jesus >_> why do you Christains always twist the scriptures to suit your false teachings? Why can't you just summit to the creator without getting into debates with the world?

As for my religion:"Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)


"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

"Do not trust in princes, (royal familys)
or in human beings,(founders of sects) who cannot deliver! (they can't lead you to God)
... How blessed is the one whose helper is the God of Jacob, (Islam)
whose hope is in the Lord his God," (Psalm 146:3, 5 NET)

Turn to me so you can be delivered,
all you who live in the earth’s remote regions!
For I am God, and I have no peer.
*I solemnly make this oath –
what I say is true and reliable:
‘Surely every knee will bow to me,
every tongue will solemnly affirm; (Isaiah 45:22, 23 NET)

Stop trusting in human beings,
whose life’s breath is in their nostrils.
For why should they be given special consideration? (Isaiah 2:22 NET)

Stop changing the subject. Be reasonable before jumping to the age old "but you evil Christians twist scripture". Try and explain to me how these 2 scriptures can be about anyone else but the Messiah. How did we twist this?? Do you really beleive this is about Israel?? Read it slowy, its obviously not.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

[Hannahh]

"I can't understand how you can take Muhammad's word over all other prophets, it just doesn't make sense. "


Obviously you "can't understand". Obviously it "just doesn't make sense"! That much is clear to all of us "muslims". It's what defines us my friend i.e. that the final word is the final word. It changes nothing about what the prophets said or did in reality. That it goes against the Bible which amounts to hadith. Well alot of Quran goes against our own hadith because as such, hadith is heresay evidence whereas the Quran, unlike the Bible, is the words spoken by the last messenger.

Go figure that you would not understand that and trust me, you will never understand that unless Allah strikes you with a bolt of lightening in the very near future and rearranges your brain cells and probably also clears up whatever veil he has placed on your eyes.

As far as not being able to understand something, I fail to understand what motivates so-called Christians like you to come around and harrass muslims like you do. What do you expect?

Conversions?

Hahaha. That's a good one. Don't you know we'd be killed if we converted? Or rather, we'd be better off dead so to speak.

I think you come here out of misguided animosity and the need to confirm your own doubts. I think you come here because you do not have peace and security in your beliefs (let alone your knowledge).

Here it is: I confirm you are full of doubts.

I testify that you are wrong and may Allah punish the person who lies.

I know what you ignore and that is why you are ignorant.

I witness that you have been misled and in turn hope to mislead others (perhaps because of your nafs).

Good luck though. You'll be needing some.

[truth_is_reason]

"I can't understand how you can take Muhammad's word over all other prophets, it just doesn't make sense. "


Obviously you "can't understand". Obviously it "just doesn't make sense"! That much is clear to all of us "muslims". It's what defines us my friend i.e. that the final word is the final word. It changes nothing about what the prophets said or did in reality. That it goes against the Bible which amounts to hadith. Well alot of Quran goes against our own hadith because as such, hadith is heresay evidence whereas the Quran, unlike the Bible, is the words spoken by the last messenger.

Go figure that you would not understand that and trust me, you will never understand that unless Allah strikes you with a bolt of lightening in the very near future and rearranges your brain cells and probably also clears up whatever veil he has placed on your eyes.

As far as not being able to understand something, I fail to understand what motivates so-called Christians like you to come around and harrass muslims like you do. What do you expect?

Conversions?

Hahaha. That's a good one. Don't you know we'd be killed if we converted? Or rather, we'd be better off dead so to speak.

I think you come here out of misguided animosity and the need to confirm your own doubts. I think you come here because you do not have peace and security in your beliefs (let alone your knowledge).

Here it is: I confirm you are full of doubts.

I testify that you are wrong and may Allah punish the person who lies.

I know what you ignore and that is why you are ignorant.

I witness that you have been misled and in turn hope to mislead others (perhaps because of your nafs).

Good luck though. You'll be needing some.

You know when someone has no good reason to believe what they do when you ask them a simple question and they have only hate speach in response.

I don't wish to harass, I wish to understand the reasoning behind Muslim thinking. Our God is a God of reason and so I am justified in reasoning to find the truth. If there is a veil over my eyes let reason lift it.

So chill out bro and lets get constructive here.

[Hannahh]

You are a liar and may Allah punish liars. Like I explained in another one of your half dozen ****-eyed posts, you have no desire to ask questions or receive answers. Period. End of story.

I am not a bro and I have no desire nor am I obligated to "lift" any veil from you EVEN IF it was in my power to do so. I have seen people like you come and I've seen them go and not a one of you ever learned a thing or changed one iota of your hard hearted disconnect between yourself and the last prophet Mohamed, SA.

As well, we are not like you whatsoever. We do not aim to convert other people. Maybe you ought to take that as advice and scoot.

[truth_is_reason]

You are a liar and may Allah punish liars. Like I explained in another one of your half dozen ****-eyed posts, you have no desire to ask questions or receive answers. Period. End of story.

I am not a bro and I have no desire nor am I obligated to "lift" any veil from you EVEN IF it was in my power to do so. I have seen people like you come and I've seen them go and not a one of you ever learned a thing or changed one iota of your hard hearted disconnect between yourself and the last prophet Mohamed, SA.

As well, we are not like you whatsoever. We do not aim to convert other people. Maybe you ought to take that as advice and scoot.

Again, please just answer the question or go follow another thread

Who is this scripture about?

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

[Hannahh]

I don't want to go to another thread. I want to "lift the veil" as you so requested by admonishing you and therefore proving that people like you are not redeemable.

People like you enjoy your ignorance like we enjoy our knowledge.

And the twain as they say, shall never meet.

[truth_is_reason]

I don't want to go to another thread. I want to "lift the veil" as you so requested by admonishing you and therefore proving that people like you are not redeemable.

People like you enjoy your ignorance like we enjoy our knowledge.

And the twain as they say, shall never meet.

Ok, so stay and enjoy the question:

Who is this scripture about?

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

[Hannahh]

Stay?

You do realize I was here first?

You do realize you are not the first troll I've run across?




What's in this for you really? Why do people do this sort of thing?

I don't go to Christian message boards and harrass them. What good is that!

People like you have made your decision and far be it from me to suggest that it is impossible to teach old dogs new tricks but generally speaking, it is.

We have a nice Sura that speaks directly to people like you:

[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!
[109.2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[109.3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[109.5] Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

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