The Islamic Jesus is a blatant paradox. Can anyone unravel this for me?

[truth_is_reason]

this logic does not follow in light of the historical record. The reason why that is the case is because anyone who reviews the legacy and reported statements or actions of the prophets will pinpoint that Jesus is the odd one out of the whole and not Muhammad, Even the Jews as well say this. This is because all of the prophets including Muhammad come with the single testimony "la ilaaha ilallah" i.e. There is no deity that deserves worship except God Alone, and then here comes Jesus who says "worship me".

Of course, we as Muslims reject this for Jesus because we know that he never ordered anyone to worship him but to worship God, but rather this is the testimony of the Christians, which can be easily dismissed because there is no verse where Jesus demands this of him in which he orders to worship him.

"And behold Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary, Did you say to men 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides Allah', He will say 'Glory to you I could never say what I had no right (to say')"

Another basis for the congruity of the Prophets is the verse revealed to Muhammad alayhi salatu salam which conveys to us in the Qur'an

nothing is said to you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) except what was said to the Messengers before you. Verily, your Lord is the Possessor of Forgiveness, and (also) the Possessor of Painful Punishment.
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #43)

likewise Allah orders Muhammad to say

"Say, I' am not a new phenomenon among the (affair of the) Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am but a plain warner."
( سورة الأحقاف , Al-Ahqaf, Chapter #46, Verse #9)

That congruity, as per the message as purported by the Christians, seems to eliminate itself in what is attributed to Jesus alayhi salam. On that basis, the Jews simply dismiss him whereas for us, we simply dismiss his supposed followers.

The God of Abraham never advocated the idea that divinity can be transferred to a creature nor did it ever advocate that the Sublime Attributes of God can be embodied into a creature. This is because the religion of both rejects the ideology of anthropomorphism to be attributable to Allah Subhaanahu. Likewise the God of Abraham never advocated that someone will pay the price for the sins of others, rather the God of both Abraham alayhi salam and Muhammad alayhi salatu salam advocated that the sone will not bear the burden of the father and vice versa, each soul will have to answer for what it has done. Of course we believe that this is as well likewise the religion of Jesus and that these heterodox concoctions or religious innovations were the concoctions of those who came after Jesus alayhi salam.

So even your line of argument fails to make sense in light of the above historical facts that congruency is found in the message of Muhammad with the message of all the previous prophets, and if we were to include the conceptions that the Christians have of Jesus, then this would make Jesus the exclusion to the general rule regarding the nature of the mission of the Prophets, not Muhammad. Likewise the laws of the Jews and the Muslims are almost identical even to the point that the Jews were the first nation which was charged with the obligation of Jihad, and then that trust was then transferred over to the Muslims.

regards

Correction, you obviously have not read the new testament. Jesus is worshiped many times and he never rebukes anyone. When people try to worship angels or prophets they are always stopped but when Jesus is worshiped there is no rebuke. So your entire argument is based on a false claim that no one worships Christ in the bible.

Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

These are old testament prophecies untouched by "evil Christian scholars". How do you explain them? Surely our Christian Jesus forfills these propechies of an Emanuel Messiah?

[Hannahh]

1. Who said the Bible is the word of Allah?

It isn't and therefore (almost) everything you have presented as the "Christian" side of things is mistaken.

2. "So why would a merciful God send a prophet he knew would cause catastrophic delusion even if it was misinterpretation."

He didn't. Your assumption is wrong. Allah is without defect. Man is not. Your mistake AND the mistake of, as you say, BILLIONS of people!


I have to wonder at how you have arrived at this conclusion without a shred of good evidence. ?

Isa, SA is the name of your Messiah and Christians even changed that! He is known as The Son of Miriam so therefore you can ditch the son of God thing and realize a person who is born, is born of a human mother ALWAYS. Twice in history however a child has been born to a human mother without the use of male sperm (Adam and Isa, pbut).

The Bible as is, is a murder mystery my friend. You have Judas who appears to have been murdered in one case and in another (same Bible mind you) he has committed suicide. And in that context you also have a missing body of a murdered person (supposedly Isa, SA was murdered in the cross) and then that "murdered" person appears to a whole BUNCH of people! And he is ALIVE. Not dead. And then you get a mysterious fixation on this poor soul who was supposedly left for dead in a field of jagged rocks and eviscerated by some unknown force (or) hanging from a tree. Sounds like my bet would be on the idea he was eviscerated on the cross and that matches with the other person who was 'supposedly' on the cross but according to he REVEALED information of the Quran (what do you think a revelation is in the first place!)....according to the revelation of the Quran....he was not on the cross. Someone else was.

Someone (Christian forefathers) has some 'splainin' to do!

Isa, SA will return to report on the situation. It is THE reason for Isa's return i.e. to witness against those billions of people who got it wrong EVEN THOUGH we are here telling them "listen up!".

The Quran relates that the people who have failed in this will try to blame it on the former prophets (born prior to the last messenger) and those people will tell them that if they had had the Quran, THEY wouldn't have made such a mistake!

So why do YOU persist in this mistake?

Why do you think we are the ones making one?

Where is YOUR rationale?

Oh....the "spirit" of this and that. I see. Hopefully you do too.


Peace in any case.

[truth_is_reason]

Jesus had a mother and no father, Adam had no father or mother. So was he superior to Jesus?

Good point, they are in fact both the sons of God for they are both the only men who were born of God and not of man. The geneologies in the bible refer to Adam as the son of God. Difference is Adam is not the only begotten son of God like Jesus. The bible teaches that Jesus is begotten in that he is God incarnate. To understand it picture God as the sun and Jesus as sunlight. So Jesus is God but God is not Jesus. I.e. Jesus is the radiance of God manifested in a man. I.e. If God were to become a man he would have the identical character to Jesus.

Ofcourse Adam did not have the identical character of God but was only made in his image. He had his own character apart from God. It is written: " As sin entered into the world through the 1st Adam it was dealt with by the 2nd Adam".

[truth_is_reason]

1. Who said the Bible is the word of Allah?

It isn't and therefore (almost) everything you have presented as the "Christian" side of things is mistaken.

2. "So why would a merciful God send a prophet he knew would cause catastrophic delusion even if it was misinterpretation."

He didn't. Your assumption is wrong. Allah is without defect. Man is not. Your mistake AND the mistake of, as you say, BILLIONS of people!


I have to wonder at how you have arrived at this conclusion without a shred of good evidence. ?

Isa, SA is the name of your Messiah and Christians even changed that! He is known as The Son of Miriam so therefore you can ditch the son of God thing and realize a person who is born, is born of a human mother ALWAYS. Twice in history however a child has been born to a human mother without the use of male sperm (Adam and Isa, pbut).

The Bible as is, is a murder mystery my friend. You have Judas who appears to have been murdered in one case and in another (same Bible mind you) he has committed suicide. And in that context you also have a missing body of a murdered person (supposedly Isa, SA was murdered in the cross) and then that "murdered" person appears to a whole BUNCH of people! And he is ALIVE. Not dead. And then you get a mysterious fixation on this poor soul who was supposedly left for dead in a field of jagged rocks and eviscerated by some unknown force (or) hanging from a tree. Sounds like my bet would be on the idea he was eviscerated on the cross and that matches with the other person who was 'supposedly' on the cross but according to he REVEALED information of the Quran (what do you think a revelation is in the first place!)....according to the revelation of the Quran....he was not on the cross. Someone else was.

Someone (Christian forefathers) has some 'splainin' to do!

Isa, SA will return to report on the situation. It is THE reason for Isa's return i.e. to witness against those billions of people who got it wrong EVEN THOUGH we are here telling them "listen up!".

The Quran relates that the people who have failed in this will try to blame it on the former prophets (born prior to the last messenger) and those people will tell them that if they had had the Quran, THEY wouldn't have made such a mistake!

So why do YOU persist in this mistake?

Why do you think we are the ones making one?

Where is YOUR rationale?

Oh....the "spirit" of this and that. I see. Hopefully you do too.


Peace in any case.

Where does it ever say Judas was murdered?

There are hundreds of manuscripts with hundreds of copies that come together to form the bible so how can you just right it off as a fraud. It is written over thousands of years by many authors who are all in agreement.

The Qu'ran has a fraction of the backup manuscripts, it is written by only one man and contradicts all other scripture. So how on earth can you reason it is more reliable.

Your God gave you a messenger right at the end who contradicts everything before him.

My God gave us the truth from day 1 and all those who believe it prosper.

Your God twists the original stories to suite his agenda, his messengers teaching has detroyed good people and nations all over the world. The Islamic nations of the world are poor, corrupt and constantly in wars that overcome them. They are cursed because they have beleived a lie. There God has no power and neither do their nations.

How great those nations could have been, how much Christ could have blessed them. I pray God will have mercy on the descendant of Ishmael who suffer under the curse of a false prophet.

To believe that Islam is the way to God's blessings while living in Christian nations enjoying their blessings is the height of hypocracy.

If Allah was really any God at all he wouldnt allow tiny nations like Israel to give 6 Islamic nations the most disgraceful defeat known in modern history.

Wake up! Your false God has no power and the nations under this false God will continue to spiral into turmoil, corruption and defeat until they repent and accept Christ.

Then they will rise and become the great nations God wants them to be.

[truth_is_reason]

but they did not witness the birth, did they ? Likewise there are innumerable teachers who taught Islam.




Rather it is Muhammad who fulfils the prophecy in Deuteronomy of a Prophet like unto Moses - Jesus, as al-Boriqi says is the odd one-out and if he did fulfil these prophecies, as you say, why did the Jewish community not believe in him ?




this is because all Prophets and Messengers are self-proclaimed - no one else gets up and says that so and so is a Prophet and obey him. They are recognized by their veracity and truthfulness and the miracles they bring - it is easy to find out a false Prophet from a true one as was the case between Jeremiah and Hananiah. Thus, the Quran repeatedly exhorts the People of the Book about the honesty and trustworthiness in the character of Muhammad as a proof of his being sent on a Divine mission.


No Prophet in the Bible claimed Divinity..

The difference is that all the bible witness's promote eachother and affirm each other. Who affirms Muhammad? If Muhammad is the prophet who's corrective teaching have come to save the world from evil corruption and depair why are the nations that except his message the poorest, most corrupt and most unstable nations on the earth.

You will know a tree by its fruit and quite frankly Muhammad's teachings have some of the most depressing fruit in modern history. Look at the Islamic world, its a complete disaster. Most of the Muslims on this site probably live in Christian nations and if they don't they probably wish they did.

Where do you live? Why not put your faith into action and enjoy the fruits of Muhammad in a Muslim nation?

[Hannahh]

There are a few descriptions of the death of Judas, two of which are included in the modern Biblical canon:

Matthew 27:3–10 says that Judas returned the money to the priests and committed suicide by hanging himself. They used it to buy the potter's field. The Gospel account presents this as a fulfillment of prophecy.[13]
The Acts of the Apostles says that Judas used the money to buy a field, but fell headfirst, and burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. This field is called Akeldama or Field of Blood.[14]
The non-canonical Gospel of Judas says Judas had a vision of the disciples stoning and persecuting him.[15]
Another account was preserved by the early Christian leader, Papias: "Judas walked about in this world a sad example of impiety; for his body having swollen to such an extent that he could not pass where a chariot could pass easily, he was crushed by the chariot, so that his bowels gushed out."[16]
The existence of conflicting accounts of the death of Judas caused problems for scholars who saw them as threatening the reliability of Scripture.[17] This problem was one of the points causing C. S. Lewis, for example, to reject the view "that every statement in Scripture must be historical truth".[18] Various attempts at harmonization have been suggested, such as that of Augustine that Judas hanged himself in the field, and the rope eventually snapped and the fall burst his body open,[17][19] or that the accounts of Acts and Matthew refer to two different transactions.[20]

There are hundreds of manuscripts with hundreds of copies that come together to form the bible so how can you just right it off as a fraud. It is written over thousands of years by many authors who are all in agreement.

Oh, I see. So which one is accurate buddy?

Reminds me of the saying, "Water water everywhere but not a drop to drink!"

The Qu'ran has a fraction of the backup manuscripts, it is written by only one man and contradicts all other scripture. So how on earth can you reason it is more reliable.

Oh I have my ways. None of which would make a difference to a blind man. Or woman for that matter.

Wake up! Your false God has no power and the nations under this false God will continue to spiral into turmoil, corruption and defeat until they repent and accept Christ.

[truth_is_reason]

Oh, I see. So which one is accurate buddy?
Reminds me of the saying, "Water water everywhere but not a drop to drink!"
Oh I have my ways. None of which would make a difference to a blind man. Or woman for that matter.

You stated tha the bible said that Judas was murdered. Now you admit its not in the bible??

But seriously, why is Muhammad reliable?

Muslims haven’t bothered to stop to think that if the Jews were correct then Muhammad couldn’t be that Prophet like Moses. The reason for this is very simple: if the Prophet was to be an Ishmaelite, or a non-Israelite, then why in the world did these Jews ask a fellow Israelite, John, if he were that Prophet to come? Why did they ask John, an Israelite, if he were that Prophet if the Prophet was to be a non-Israelite, a Gentile?

What proof from scripture do you have that Muhammad is the prophesied "prophet to come"? Was Jesus not that prophet?

[Hannahh]

We muslims have not bothered to stop to think obviously. We've been sitting around twiddling our thumbs for centuries and ought to feel relieved that you have come along to clear this matter up for us.

Nonwithstanding...your post makes no sense. It appears that you are an unbalanced person and ready to implode. I encourage you to do so elsewhere and in private.

[truth_is_reason]

We muslims have not bothered to stop to think obviously. We've been sitting around twiddling our thumbs for centuries and ought to feel relieved that you have come along to clear this matter up for us.

Nonwithstanding...your post makes no sense. It appears that you are an unbalanced person and ready to implode. I encourage you to do so elsewhere and in private.

Again you dodge the question:

If the Prophet was to be an Ishmaelite, or a non-Israelite, then why in the world did these Jews ask a fellow Israelite, John, if he were that Prophet to come? Why did they ask John, an Israelite, if he were that Prophet if the Prophet was to be a non-Israelite, a Gentile?

[Hannahh]

I have no idea what ignorant nonsense you are asking about.

There are no sensible answers to nonsensical questions. It's what Wittgenstein taught me that matters in a case such as this.

I'm afraid I have to go do something else. It is a sin for a muslim to sit with an ignorant person and argue.

I beg your royal pardon. And the state of Israel for which you disunited "Christians" stand.

[shaad_lko]

The difference is that all the bible witness's promote eachother and affirm each other. Who affirms Muhammad? If Muhammad is the prophet who's corrective teaching have come to save the world from evil corruption and depair why are the nations that except his message the poorest, most corrupt and most unstable nations on the earth.

why all the Bible affirms Muhammad (sws) - try a different lens..

You will know a tree by its fruit and quite frankly Muhammad's teachings have some of the most depressing fruit in modern history. Look at the Islamic world, its a complete disaster. Most of the Muslims on this site probably live in Christian nations and if they don't they probably wish they did.

Where do you live? Why not put your faith into action and enjoy the fruits of Muhammad in a Muslim nation?

You do know a tree by its fruit - why did we have two World Wars, weapons of mass destruction, slavery until modern times, colonization .. ?