The Islamic Jesus is a blatant paradox. Can anyone unravel this for me?

[truth_is_reason]

I'm struggling to understand the reasoning behind the Islamic version of Jesus the Messiah. Rational reasoning welcome

Islam like Christianity believes that Jesus is the Messiah yet they do not believe that he is the son of God or that he died as a perfect sacrifice for the sin of man. These things are key to salvation in Christianity for it is written "he who denies the son denies the father". "For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son to die as an atoning sacrifice for mankind so that all who believe in him will be saved".

Islamists believe he was simply a great prophet of messianic importance who was sent to the Jewish people.

In Christianity we attribute Jesus as a parter to God for he is begotten of God and the bible states the fullness of the deity dwells within him. In Islam you can be forgiven for any sin except the sin of attributing partners to God.

So these 2 religions are fundamentally different as salvation in the one equals damnation in the other.

So let me trace the reasoning behind the Islamic Jesus:
-So why does God send a prophet? To deliver a message that makes a change.
-Has God ever in all scripture failed to have his prophet accomplish their objective? No.
-What according to Islam was Jesus's objective? To correct the wayward Jews from their wicked ways.
-What was the result? 2 Billion people breaking the only unforgivable law in Islam, attributing a partner to God.
By the admission of Islam itself Allah made a huge mistake sending Jesus and this single prophet did catatrophic damage to the salvation of man.

If you try to explain it by saying Christians twisted or misinterpreted his message you still have to admit that God's purpose failed for what God sends a prophet he knows will be misinterpreted?

How can the Islamic Jesus make sense in this way?

[shaad_lko]

I'm struggling to understand the reasoning behind the Islamic version of Jesus the Messiah. Rational reasoning welcome

Islam like Christianity believes that Jesus is the Messiah yet they do not believe that he is the son of God or that he died as a perfect sacrifice for the sin of man. These things are key to salvation in Christianity for it is written "he who denies the son denies the father". "For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son to die as an atoning sacrifice for mankind so that all who believe in him will be saved".

Islamists believe he was simply a great prophet of messianic importance who was sent to the Jewish people.

In Christianity we attribute Jesus as a parter to God for he is begotten of God and the bible states the fullness of the deity dwells within him. In Islam you can be forgiven for any sin except the sin of attributing partners to God.

So these 2 religions are fundamentally different as salvation in the one equals damnation in the other.

So let me trace the reasoning behind the Islamic Jesus:
-So why does God send a prophet? To deliver a message that makes a change.
-Has God ever in all scripture failed to have his prophet accomplish their objective? No.
-What according to Islam was Jesus's objective? To correct the wayward Jews from their wicked ways.
-What was the result? 2 Billion people breaking the only unforgivable law in Islam, attributing a partner to God.
By the admission of Islam itself Allah made a huge mistake sending Jesus and this single prophet did catatrophic damage to the salvation of man.

If you try to explain it by saying Christians twisted or misinterpreted his message you still have to admit that God's purpose failed for what God sends a prophet he knows will be misinterpreted?

How can the Islamic Jesus make sense in this way?

before we get into that, how does God have a son anyway ?

[Al-Boriqi]

So let me trace the reasoning behind the Islamic Jesus:
-So why does God send a prophet? To deliver a message that makes a change.

the purpose of prophet kings or slave messengers universally are sent to guide mankind from the darkness of misguidance and into the light of guidance because the human intellect alone cannopt do this on its own. That is why messengership.prophethood is a necessary requisite to the human experience. If the human intellect alone was able to arrive at all that is correct, then this essentially makes defunct Allah's commissioning of the prophet's.

-Has God ever in all scripture failed to have his prophet accomplish their objective? No.

Failure is inapplicable to human guidance because of the concept of "free-choice". Hence the so called "failure" of a prophet has nothing to do with God or the prophet, rather the "failure" is directly at the doorstep to those who chose to reject the faith in the first place and to reject the message that they came with. Therefore, if we were to entertain that failure can be attributed to God or the prophets, then this will essentially eliminate free-choice and will establish a direct Divine intervention where God Himself determined the outcome of your fate thereby stripping the human of the choice to obey or disobey.

-What according to Islam was Jesus's objective? To correct the wayward Jews from their wicked ways

Yes. It was
1. to directly guide the jews towards the correct path of guidance
2. to increase their spirituality since they became more focused on the letter of the law rather than the spirit, but he directly refutes the idea that he abolishes the letter of the law as he said "he came to fulfill it"
3. to make ammendments to the legislation of God with the Gospel towards the Torah in order to ease some of the laws.

-What was the result? 2 Billion people breaking the only unforgivable law in Islam, attributing a partner to God.

The result was the most of his disciples and the early followers of Jesus believed and were saved from the punishment of Allah Subhaanahu.

The 2 billion people (or the millions prior to them) have no connection and nothign to do with the actions of Jesus and what he did for his community, those are things directly related to completely different matter altogether.

By the admission of Islam itself Allah made a huge mistake sending Jesus and this single prophet did catatrophic damage to the salvation of man.

1. There was or is no mistake in the actions of the Almighty because it is not God's choice to direct human choice, otherwise the concept of guidance becomes futile

2. One of the aspects of imparting divine guidance is the concept of putting the recipients of the message on trial. Humans come in different shades and forms and so what one human finds easy, another human finds difficult. Thus God puts people to trial for them to see their own results. How does this relate to the situation you highlighted? Well, God says in the Qur'an regarding the nation that came before us (the Jews) that "They did not begin to differ until knowledge had reached them"

Knowledge is a double-edged sword. If you give it its due, then you benefit from it, if you meet it with rejection or disdain, then you will be on the receiving edge of what happens to those who do that. So trials is a continuous methodology of God towards the human experience. IN another verse in the Qur'an, He tells us
"Did you think that you would get away with professing the faith without being tested. Many were the people before you who were tested"

That is essentially what the life of this world is, is a test for us to see with our own eyes what we truely deserve. Allah is not in need of the result of the test because He already knows the outcome, rather the purpose of the life here on earth is for us to actualize the result of our test, or as you would commonly say "know the seeds that you sow"

If you try to explain it by saying Christians twisted or misinterpreted his message you still have to admit that God's purpose failed for what God sends a prophet he knows will be misinterpreted?

The onus of people's manipulation and hiding of God's words has nothign to do with God, it has everything to do with humans and their desires. God's purpose did not fail because Jesus already told his own disciples that they were not ready to receive the total and complete guidance of truth for mankind. So he told them that there will be another after him who will be commissioned with that specific task.

How can the Islamic Jesus make sense in this way?

because you need the correct focal calibration, and you will be able to see.

regards

[truth_is_reason]

You have to admit that if God did not send Jesus the world would be better off.

So why would a merciful God send a prophet he knew would cause catastrophic delusion even if it was misinterpretation.

Funny thing is we have many prophets over thousands of years that all agree in perfect harmony.

You have one prophet who arrives late in the day as a single witness contradicting all other prophets.

Whats more believable, everyone else has been misinterpreted of your prophet has nothing to do with the prophets of old but is rather promoting a new religion apart from the God of Abraham.

Does the Qu'ran not declare that all testimony must be backed by 2 or more witness's. How then can you take Muhammad's testimony over all other prophets.

[truth_is_reason]

Jesus was a man who was born of a virgin by the holy spirit. This is agreed upon even in the Qu'ran.

So he is therefore not the son of a man but a son of the holy spirit.

The holy spirit is God so he is therefore the only man born of God making him the only begotten son of God.

So I don't understand why Islam denies he is the son of God because they admit he was born of the spirit of God unlike all other men who were born of flesh.

[hyd]

"How then can you take Muhammad's testimony over all other prophets."
Its the other way around if you are talking about God sending a son or God taking a human form. Ask a Rabbi.

[shaad_lko]

You have to admit that if God did not send Jesus the world would be better off.

So why would a merciful God send a prophet he knew would cause catastrophic delusion even if it was misinterpretation.

Funny thing is we have many prophets over thousands of years that all agree in perfect harmony.

You have one prophet who arrives late in the day as a single witness contradicting all other prophets.

Whats more believable, everyone else has been misinterpreted of your prophet has nothing to do with the prophets of old but is rather promoting a new religion apart from the God of Abraham.

Does the Qu'ran not declare that all testimony must be backed by 2 or more witness's. How then can you take Muhammad's testimony over all other prophets.

which other Prophet called Jesus a son of God (that's a rhetorical question, by the way) ? The only single testimony is by the Church (if it could be called a "testimony"), so as per the law of the Bible it should be rejected..

[truth_is_reason]

The church is not a single witness. There were many prophets/teachers that taught that Jesus was the son of God. Luke, Mathew, John, Paul, James etc..

More importantly is that Jesus forfilled all the prophecies of the olf testament prophets so they are addional witness's from the past seeing the future.

Islam has (1), yes only (1) guy who contradicts all prophets and all scripture. So how can you say that the church is the sinlge witness. The idea didnt come from the church, it came from the scriptures of many teachers/prophets 500 years before Muhammad.

So why do Muslims disobey their own scripture by taking the testimony of a single witness who contradicts all witness's?? Surely out of conviction you should investigate this.

How can a Muslim deny that Jesus is the son of God when they admit he was born not of a man but of the spirit of God through a virgin. So who's son is he? The Son of God, otherwise he is the son of no one and you declare the Messiah a bastard.

[truth_is_reason]

The onus of people's manipulation and hiding of God's words has nothign to do with God, it has everything to do with humans and their desires. God's purpose did not fail because Jesus already told his own disciples that they were not ready to receive the total and complete guidance of truth for mankind. So he told them that there will be another after him who will be commissioned with that specific task.

Yes, and Christ says stay in the city until the comforter comes apon you. Then go out into the world preaching the good news and baptising people in my name.

How can you possibly twist that to mean wait till a single witness comes 500 years from now and contradicts all other previous witness's.

You cannot argue that we changes scripture because we have manuscripts dating back 100's and 1000's of years before Muhammad. If Muhammad was tuly sent to "correct us" he should have come earlier because the apparent lies were already set in stone countless generations before him.

Tell me, what on earth gives you such confidence in this single witness? Do you not know your own law? All testimony must come from 2 or more witness's.

[Al-Boriqi]

You have to admit that if God did not send Jesus the world would be better off.

So why would a merciful God send a prophet he knew would cause catastrophic delusion even if it was misinterpretation.

Funny thing is we have many prophets over thousands of years that all agree in perfect harmony.

You have one prophet who arrives late in the day as a single witness contradicting all other prophets.

Whats more believable, everyone else has been misinterpreted of your prophet has nothing to do with the prophets of old but is rather promoting a new religion apart from the God of Abraham.

Does the Qu'ran not declare that all testimony must be backed by 2 or more witness's. How then can you take Muhammad's testimony over all other prophets.

this logic does not follow in light of the historical record. The reason why that is the case is because anyone who reviews the legacy and reported statements or actions of the prophets will pinpoint that Jesus is the odd one out of the whole and not Muhammad, Even the Jews as well say this. This is because all of the prophets including Muhammad come with the single testimony "la ilaaha ilallah" i.e. There is no deity that deserves worship except God Alone, and then here comes Jesus who says "worship me".

Of course, we as Muslims reject this for Jesus because we know that he never ordered anyone to worship him but to worship God, but rather this is the testimony of the Christians, which can be easily dismissed because there is no verse where Jesus demands this of him in which he orders to worship him.

"And behold Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary, Did you say to men 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides Allah', He will say 'Glory to you I could never say what I had no right (to say')"

Another basis for the congruity of the Prophets is the verse revealed to Muhammad alayhi salatu salam which conveys to us in the Qur'an

nothing is said to you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) except what was said to the Messengers before you. Verily, your Lord is the Possessor of Forgiveness, and (also) the Possessor of Painful Punishment.
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #43)

likewise Allah orders Muhammad to say

"Say, I' am not a new phenomenon among the (affair of the) Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am but a plain warner."
( سورة الأحقاف , Al-Ahqaf, Chapter #46, Verse #9)

That congruity, as per the message as purported by the Christians, seems to eliminate itself in what is attributed to Jesus alayhi salam. On that basis, the Jews simply dismiss him whereas for us, we simply dismiss his supposed followers.

The God of Abraham never advocated the idea that divinity can be transferred to a creature nor did it ever advocate that the Sublime Attributes of God can be embodied into a creature. This is because the religion of both rejects the ideology of anthropomorphism to be attributable to Allah Subhaanahu. Likewise the God of Abraham never advocated that someone will pay the price for the sins of others, rather the God of both Abraham alayhi salam and Muhammad alayhi salatu salam advocated that the sone will not bear the burden of the father and vice versa, each soul will have to answer for what it has done. Of course we believe that this is as well likewise the religion of Jesus and that these heterodox concoctions or religious innovations were the concoctions of those who came after Jesus alayhi salam.

So even your line of argument fails to make sense in light of the above historical facts that congruency is found in the message of Muhammad with the message of all the previous prophets, and if we were to include the conceptions that the Christians have of Jesus, then this would make Jesus the exclusion to the general rule regarding the nature of the mission of the Prophets, not Muhammad. Likewise the laws of the Jews and the Muslims are almost identical even to the point that the Jews were the first nation which was charged with the obligation of Jihad, and then that trust was then transferred over to the Muslims.

regards

[Al-Boriqi]

Yes, and Christ says stay in the city until the comforter comes apon you. Then go out into the world preaching the good news and baptising people in my name.

How can you possibly twist that to mean wait till a single witness comes 500 years from now and contradicts all other previous witness's.

You cannot argue that we changes scripture because we have manuscripts dating back 100's and 1000's of years before Muhammad. If Muhammad was tuly sent to "correct us" he should have come earlier because the apparent lies were already set in stone countless generations before him.

Tell me, what on earth gives you such confidence in this single witness? Do you not know your own law? All testimony must come from 2 or more witness's.

I dont have time to explain the verse in the bible for you and why Jesus used the Aramaic word for Muhammad i.e. Paraklytos when addressing his disciples.

Secondly, the Qur'an has to be interpreted through qualified means. The verse you are using has nothing to do with what your employing it for. When Allah revealed the verse regarding having 2 witnesses, He was only speaking of women, and ONLY making this criterion in terms of the court of law i.e. when a women bears testimony in the court of law, then it is a requirement that there be two women.

regards

[DocW]

Knowledge is a double-edged sword. If you give it its due, then you benefit from it, if you meet it with rejection or disdain, then you will be on the receiving edge of what happens to those who do that.

Great post bro

[DocW]

Jesus was a man who was born of a virgin by the holy spirit. This is agreed upon even in the Qu'ran.

So he is therefore not the son of a man but a son of the holy spirit.

The holy spirit is God so he is therefore the only man born of God making him the only begotten son of God.

So I don't understand why Islam denies he is the son of God because they admit he was born of the spirit of God unlike all other men who were born of flesh.

Jesus had a mother and no father, Adam had no father or mother. So was he superior to Jesus?

[DocW]

One person's sacrifice washes the sins of the entire nation. Does that make sense?

My understanding is that God has promised that His messengers will always prevail. That does not mean that they need to be alive to see it happen. Their mission will be a success. Christ pbuh left this world and today Christianity has the largest following among monotheiest religions. So how did the messenger not prevail?

[shaad_lko]

The church is not a single witness. There were many prophets/teachers that taught that Jesus was the son of God. Luke, Mathew, John, Paul, James etc..

but they did not witness the birth, did they ? Likewise there are innumerable teachers who taught Islam.

More importantly is that Jesus forfilled all the prophecies of the olf testament prophets so they are addional witness's from the past seeing the future.


Islam has (1), yes only (1) guy who contradicts all prophets and all scripture. So how can you say that the church is the sinlge witness. The idea didnt come from the church, it came from the scriptures of many teachers/prophets 500 years before Muhammad.

Rather it is Muhammad who fulfils the prophecy in Deuteronomy of a Prophet like unto Moses - Jesus, as al-Boriqi says is the odd one-out and if he did fulfil these prophecies, as you say, why did the Jewish community not believe in him ?

So why do Muslims disobey their own scripture by taking the testimony of a single witness who contradicts all witness's?? Surely out of conviction you should investigate this.

this is because all Prophets and Messengers are self-proclaimed - no one else gets up and says that so and so is a Prophet and obey him. They are recognized by their veracity and truthfulness and the miracles they bring - it is easy to find out a false Prophet from a true one as was the case between Jeremiah and Hananiah. Thus, the Quran repeatedly exhorts the People of the Book about the honesty and trustworthiness in the character of Muhammad as a proof of his being sent on a Divine mission.

How can a Muslim deny that Jesus is the son of God when they admit he was born not of a man but of the spirit of God through a virgin. So who's son is he? The Son of God, otherwise he is the son of no one and you declare the Messiah a bastard.

No Prophet in the Bible claimed Divinity..