can you work out who is my wali?

[ummimran]

Assalam alaykum

I'm a convert to islam, when I first converted I didn't know of any muslim relatives, so in my first marriage the imaam acted as my wali.

I got divorced and I'm considering marriage but this time I have a conundrum. A few years ago my mother was introduced to a muslim man who it turns out shares a greatgrandfather with my father through my paternal grandfather.

On the other hand the son of my fathers first cousin converted to islam. His grandfather and my grandmother are siblings. His mother and my father are first cousins.

Do I also have to take into consideration which of the two is likely to stick to only islam and not bring in tradition like asking for gifts and money for the family which the first one would but the second wouldn't.

Is age a factor? The first is much older than the second.

Also does it matter that the second had a child out of wedlock while he was muslim, although it was the financial demands from her family that made them delay the nikah otherwise I would never have known about the sex outside of marriage.

Another thing, the second brother and I communicate easily, while with the first brother, there is a generational gap plus we communicate in what is both our second language and the first brother I'd like to consider for marriage doesn't speak it.

Finally, I live in the same city as the second brother, quite close actually, while the first brother lives approx 7 hours drive away in our home rural area.

Hope I'll get a response

Wassalam

[johan]

Assalam alaykum

I'm a convert to islam, when I first converted I didn't know of any muslim relatives, so in my first marriage the imaam acted as my wali.

I got divorced and I'm considering marriage but this time I have a conundrum. A few years ago my mother was introduced to a muslim man who it turns out shares a greatgrandfather with my father through my paternal grandfather.

On the other hand the son of my fathers first cousin converted to islam. His grandfather and my grandmother are siblings. His mother and my father are first cousins.

Do I also have to take into consideration which of the two is likely to stick to only islam and not bring in tradition like asking for gifts and money for the family which the first one would but the second wouldn't.

Is age a factor? The first is much older than the second.

Also does it matter that the second had a child out of wedlock while he was muslim, although it was the financial demands from her family that made them delay the nikah otherwise I would never have known about the sex outside of marriage.

Another thing, the second brother and I communicate easily, while with the first brother, there is a generational gap plus we communicate in what is both our second language and the first brother I'd like to consider for marriage doesn't speak it.

Finally, I live in the same city as the second brother, quite close actually, while the first brother lives approx 7 hours drive away in our home rural area.

Hope I'll get a response

Wassalam

Salam sister ummimran,

Life is full of hard decisions isn't it..
I wish I was qualified to answer
I just want to wish you all the best

Salam,
Johan

[ummimran]

Wa alaykum assalam

Jazakallahu khayran Johan. I certainly do hope someone has an answer.

[DocW]

Sister ! In my humble opinion marriage is a decision which joins you with someone hopefully for the rest of your life. You have a say and right to chose your life partner. You are coming out of a broken marriage so you must be aware about the importance of being with hte right person, for your own sake.

Speak to both of them and explain what you want from the marriage and decide on compatability, class and character and not on just secondary items like who lives where. Compatability, understanding, conisderation are required. If you feel neither are right, have faith in God, someone better will come your way.

Wishing you happiness and faith

[ummimran]

Sister ! In my humble opinion marriage is a decision which joins you with someone hopefully for the rest of your life. You have a say and right to chose your life partner. You are coming out of a broken marriage so you must be aware about the importance of being with hte right person, for your own sake.

Speak to both of them and explain what you want from the marriage and decide on compatability, class and character and not on just secondary items like who lives where. Compatability, understanding, conisderation are required. If you feel neither are right, have faith in God, someone better will come your way.

Wishing you happiness and faith

DocW, I don't think you understood my question, I wasn't asking about which brother to marry, I'm asking which of the two is legally my wali?

[DocW]

Salaam sister

I apologize if I did not understand the question completely. I was reading comparison between the two brothers like age, where they live etc, so I thought you were un sure which one to marry.

Please read verse 4:22-24 it gives relations you cannot marry.

and marry not women whom your fathers married- except what has been done in the past: it was shameful and odious- an abominable practice indeed. Prohibited to you( for marriage) are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your maternal and paternal aunts, the daughetrs of your brothers and sisters; your mothers who have suckled you and your sisters through fosterage. ( Similarly), the mothers of your wives, your step daughters raised under you born of your wives with whom you have lain- no offence if you have not lain with with their mothers, and the wives of your real sons, and two sisters in wedlock at the same time, except for what has already happened. God indeed is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hand possess; this is a written obligation upon you from God.

[ummimran]

Salaam sister

I apologize if I did not understand the question completely. I was reading comparison between the two brothers like age, where they live etc, so I thought you were un sure which one to marry.

Please read verse 4:22-24 it gives relations you cannot marry.

and marry not women whom your fathers married- except what has been done in the past: it was shameful and odious- an abominable practice indeed. Prohibited to you( for marriage) are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your maternal and paternal aunts, the daughetrs of your brothers and sisters; your mothers who have suckled you and your sisters through fosterage. ( Similarly), the mothers of your wives, your step daughters raised under you born of your wives with whom you have lain- no offence if you have not lain with with their mothers, and the wives of your real sons, and two sisters in wedlock at the same time, except for what has already happened. God indeed is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hand possess; this is a written obligation upon you from God.

So are you saying since neither of the two brothers is my mahram, neither of them can be my wali and I still have to use an imaam?

[DocW]

Can you please clarify what is your understanding of Imam, Wali and their significance in relation to your marriage.

[ummimran]

Can you please clarify what is your understanding of Imam, Wali and their significance in relation to your marriage.

The wali is your guardian who gives you away when getting married. For a muslim sister that would be her father, or her brother if her father isn't there etc. For a revert who has no muslim family and you're not in an islamic state a religious leader I.e imaam would be her wali. I assumed on of those two muslim relatives I have would take precedence over the imaam as my wali.

[lumumba_s]

Your wali is supposed to be someone who is close to you (which is the meaning of wali), understands you and genuinely looks out for your interest - i.e., your father, brother, grandfather, uncle, etc. In respect to your cousins, they both are able to marry you, so they have no precedence over the imam.

"If the bride has no Muslim guardian and there is no Islamic magistrate to act as one, she may authorize a male Muslim who has the qualifications of an Islamic judge - or if there is none, then a male Muslim who is legally upright - to act as her guardian n marrying her to the groom" (Reliance of the Traveler)

You can choose whomever you feel more comfortable with and whom you believe knows you best and genuinely has your interests. As a convert, you need to be careful that you don't choose someone who has some connection to the person you potentially want to marry or who does not share your view of marriage and outlook on religion. Having a wali, however, doesn't mean that you sit back and put your life completely in someone else's hands. You know better than us who is most appropriate. You may want to keep in mind that it may even be better if you choose the imam, since he already has a public role in the community, whereas your cousins have their own lives and families to be concerned with. The wali is a responsibility, it isn't simply a technically of the marriage contract.

Wa-Llahu `alim wa musta`am

[Al-Boriqi]

The wali is your guardian who gives you away when getting married. For a muslim sister that would be her father, or her brother if her father isn't there etc. For a revert who has no muslim family and you're not in an islamic state a religious leader I.e imaam would be her wali. I assumed on of those two muslim relatives I have would take precedence over the imaam as my wali.

Please forgive DocW, originally he may have thought of you seeking marraige rather than determining who can be wali. Then it seems that he may not fully grasp the obligatory nature of wilaayah as being a pivotal aspect of the marraige contract that goes beyond the issue of compatability of the two partners. Somehow, he may have adopted a mistaken notion that the existence of the wali in the contract entails the eradication of you and your wishes as part of the process.

As for your situation, there is really no one here qualified to give you a direct ruling appropriate for you.

As for your situation, lumumba has generally outlined the best scope of your situation. Your cousins or "second cousins" or any relative that has that much of remoteness to you do not qualify as proper "walis" because according to the shariah, they and you can legally marry, which by itself disqualifies them from being a wali.

The quote provided by the "Reliance of the Traveller" is kind of out-dated or inapplicable in some forms.

Because you are here in America, if you have no direct relative like your father or brother who can carry the responsibility of wilaaya, then the second in line from a practical level would be the Imaam of a masjid.
Just as lumumba said, wilaayah is a lifetime responsibility and is not simply limited to the actual negotiations of the marriage contract.

Because of the heavy responsibility of the position of the wali, the only two entities outside of your father or brother who is actually going to care enough to deal with any problems you may have with your husband are
1. the state judge (who is enforced by Islamic law to intervene on your behalf)
or
2. the Imaam of a masjid.

And since we don't have the atmosphere that provides the security that we need here in the west, then the 1st option is x-ed out and that leaves you with option 2, the Imaam. The reason the imaam is the most sound is because he has a position of influence and prestige within the community by which he is able to cause some type of affect in your favor in case there arises marital discord.

Anyone beyond these peole will either be too busy for the task which would mean that they would put your interests as secondary rather than primary, or they won't really be able to do anything.

All in all a major aspect of wali-ship is to provide time, support, and the ability to affect change to marital relations in time of discord, and normal people who are appoint to be a wali will 99 percent of the time fail to fulfill that mission.

asalamu alaykum warahmatullah