Polygamy, surah 4:3 and the issue with orphans and widows

[haraaz]

Salam alikom

After reading interesting points in this thread:

http://forums.understanding-islam.co...lavery/page22&
and on the main page (understanding-islam.com), I have got the impression that polygamy was not encouraged or commanded for the sake of men's desire or lust, it was merely a way of helping out orphans and widows after the battle of Uhud where many men were lost.

Considering these points, that polygamy was infact not encouraged but rather a need for the construction of society to maintain the wellfare of orphans and widows, I wonder - where is the proof for this?
Except the obvious context, of course.

When you say to someone that surah 4:3 is referring to taking care of the orphans, they would provide you with a hadith where it says it is not referring to taking care of them, rather about MARRYING them. And thus, interpreting the verse like this; ("if you cant be fair (in marriage to the orphans") then marry other women, two, three or four...and only in certain, rare circumstances, should one marry only one). As if polygamy is preferred and monogamy is not, despite all the references that Allah swt created human from a single soul and created his partner (not partners) for him.

Also people like to mention, if it is allowed to marry the first one out of lust, then why would it not be permissible to do so for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th time? Also, they like to mention that "all" of the sahaba practiced polygamy, and not in the context of taking care of orphans or widows.

How does one argue with that?

[shaad_lko]

i'll just make an aside comment here - imho, religion is not pro- or anti-polygamy as this is a cultural issue. Though Islam does acknowledge the fact taht equality between co-wives would become extremely difficult in case of polygamy. It is something that really depends on the historical and social context of a particular community..

[DocW]

Great response bro Shad and I fully agree. Ghamidhi is of the point of view that when God created Adam pbuh he had only one wife. Thus the requirement for a family which is the basic unit of society one requires one husband and wife.

Polygamy was prevalent in society before Islam, Islam neither stopped nor promoted polygamy, but on account of the holy wars which resulted in martyrdom of Muslim men tried to deal with the issue of orphans and their widows.

[haraaz]

Thanks for your replies!

I do know that polygamy already existed before Islam, I read the old thread "was polygamy meant to die out like slavery" and I found many of the explanations there to be very sound and logic. However my question was not whether Islam encourages it or not, my question was; how do I answer such people who claim that the verse 4:3 was about MARRYING orphans? (rather than taking care of them and marrying widows).

[shaad_lko]

Thanks for your replies!

I do know that polygamy already existed before Islam, I read the old thread "was polygamy meant to die out like slavery" and I found many of the explanations there to be very sound and logic. However my question was not whether Islam encourages it or not, my question was; how do I answer such people who claim that the verse 4:3 was about MARRYING orphans? (rather than taking care of them and marrying widows).

If someone is disregarding the quite clear context, then really you cant do much to help them.. just ask them to read and ponder on Sura Nisa (say, the first 10 verses or so), the message is delivered by itself, it cant get any simpler than that..

[haraaz]

If someone is disregarding the quite clear context, then really you cant do much to help them.. just ask them to read and ponder on Sura Nisa (say, the first 10 verses or so), the message is delivered by itself, it cant get any simpler than that..

I totally agree, the context is crystal clear, and I always interpreted it that way before I found out most people didn't...
But since there obviously are at least 1 "sahih" hadith saying that this verse are about marrying orphans, how could one argue with that without being called a "quranist"? My stance is; I don't disregard hadith, but I don't believe all in sahih Bukhari to be 100% correct either. I don't elevate the hadiths to same level as the Quran.

For example, there is one hadith in Bukhari that says the Prophet slept with all his wives in one night (had intercourse with all of them), but the Prophet (saw) himself said that the one who discloses such secrets about a couple's intimate relations to others, is a sinner.

Sure, there are hadiths that explain what is allowed in terms of intimate relations and such, but this is really too much. There is no reason as to why the Prophet (saw) would have said that (it's not to teach people something about what is allowed or not allowed etc), so hadiths such as this one I simply can't regard as being 100% truthful.

[haraaz]

Also brother shaad_lko, I have one more question.

You agree with me (and sure many others) that the context of surah nisa is clear, but why is it then that most scholars interpret the verse as meaning marrying the orphans? I have tried to find any famous scholar or famous Quran commentator who are of the same view (that the verse is about taking care of orphans, not marrying them) but I have not found anyone.

[shaad_lko]

Also brother shaad_lko, I have one more question.

You agree with me (and sure many others) that the context of surah nisa is clear, but why is it then that most scholars interpret the verse as meaning marrying the orphans? I have tried to find any famous scholar or famous Quran commentator who are of the same view (that the verse is about taking care of orphans, not marrying them) but I have not found anyone.

if you can read Urdu, here is Islahi's tafsir - http://www.tadabbur-i-quran.org/text...urah-nisah/16/ One of the arguments he puts forth is that "yatama" in 4:3 is nowhere female-specific. The implication being that "Nisa" refers not to them but to their mothers..

Most importantly, just 3 verses later it says :

"Make trial of orphans until they reach the marriageable age", which would render the previous verse redundant if yatama there means underage girls.

[Ron]

Please quote all these scholars who interpret it as being marrying the orphans.