Mohammad and Temporal Lobe Seizures

[patrick]

In my writing about this seizure disorder I am in no way trying to be disrespectful to people with epilepsy. My daughter had seizure as a child that she grew out of as a teenager. She is amazing, but she is not a prophet!

Sgns and symptoms of TLS:
• Hallucinations
• A sudden sense of unprovoked fear
• A deja vu experience
• The sudden occurrence of a strange odor or taste
• Loss of awareness of surroundings
• Staring
• Lip smacking
• Repeated swallowing or chewing
• Unusual finger movements, such as picking motions
• Epigastric sensations - A rising sensation in the abdomen
• An out-of-body feeling
• Sweating
• Flushed face
• Rapid heart rate


http://books.google.com/books?id=bDO...page&q&f=false
The first to suspect that Muhammad had epilepsy was Halima or her husband, when Muhammad was five ears old. Theophanes, 192 [752-817] a Byzantine historian was the first scholar to claim that Muhammad suffered from epilepsy.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 2:
Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah's Apostle "O Allah's Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?" Allah's Apostle replied, "Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ' off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says." 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration was over).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
Narrated 'Aisha: ..The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and [B]pressed me so hard [/B]that I could not bear it any more.
...
Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me."
...

Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 4:
Narrated Said bin Jubair: Ibn 'Abbas in the explanation of the Statement of Allah. 'Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith." (75.16) Said "Allah's Apostle used to bear the revelation with great trouble and used to move his lips (quickly) with the Inspiration."

Ibn Sa'd says, "at the moment of inspiration, anxiety pressed upon the Prophet, and his countenance was troubled.

Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 660:

Narrated Aisha: Magic was worked on Allah's Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not (Sufyan said: That is the hardest kind of magic as it has such an effect). Then one day he said, "O 'Aisha do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other. What is wrong with this man?' The latter replied the is under the effect of magic The first one asked, Who has worked magic on him?'

Bukhari, Volume 9, Number 111:
...
Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his neck muscles twitching with terror till he entered upon Khadija and said, "Cover me! Cover me!"

Hallucinations-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 345:
Narrated Abu Dhar: Allah's Apostle said, "While I was at Mecca the roof of my house was opened and Gabriel descended, opened my chest, and washed it with Zam-zam water. Then he brought a golden tray full of wisdom and faith and having poured its contents into my chest, he closed it. Then he took my hand and ascended with me to the nearest heaven, when I reached the nearest heaven, Gabriel said to the gatekeeper of the heaven, 'Open (the gate).' The gatekeeper asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel answered: 'Gabriel.' He asked, 'Is there anyone with you?' Gabriel replied, 'Yes, Muhammad I is with me.' He asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel said, 'Yes.' So the gate was opened and we went over the nearest heaven and there we saw a man sitting with some people on his right and some on his left. When he looked towards his right, he laughed and when he looked toward his left he wept. Then he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' He replied, 'He is Adam and the people on his right and left are the souls of his offspring. Those on his right are the people of Paradise and those on his left are the people of Hell and when he looks towards his right he laughs and when he looks towards his left he weeps.'

[shaad_lko]

this theory has already been consigned to the dustbin long time back, its so much trashed around that to take it out of the trashcan is to pour dirt on oneself (literally). For more, you can read :

http://www.amazon.com/The-Quranic-Ph.../dp/9839154257

The Prophet (sws) never experienced a loss of awareness of his surroundings - in fact he was very much aware and repeated a highly coherent and brilliant discourse which we know today as the Quran. To suggest that this was due to an epileptic fit, is nothing short of intellectual dishonesty propelled by prejudice and hate.

[Ron]

It's not the dustbin...it's the recycled idiotic bin...there's no shortage of trash pickers...

[patrick]

On another thread a poster stated:
P.S: I checked out the new thread you started....I'm sorry about your daughter, but I'm very glad that now she's fine, Alhamdullilah, All Praise be to God !
But, as the others have expressed, there is no basis in that argument. Those hadiths that you've quoted are just fine....and what you call "symptoms" are not of any disorder but are signs of revelation. It was difficult cuz it was encounter with something heavenly...so the reaction is obvious. Also, Moses (pbuh) reacted in a similar way..."Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.", "set me trembling on my hands and knees.", "While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground.", "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. ".....I don't know what their exact contexts are tho (got it from the cross-references on bible.cc)...but, don't you think the analogy is valid?

Many have thought this was a possibility. BUT GOD gave him miracles to prove that something more then a physical illness was at hand.

Same with Paul, but Paul was given the eyewitness of Jesus also going to Ananais.

Check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpLZ3Cf2I_s

It is about a young man today that is suffering from Temporal Lobe Seizures and his experience with religion.

[theman09]

i know why you said "same with paul"

you watched this debate

On another thread a poster stated:
P.S: I checked out the new thread you started....I'm sorry about your daughter, but I'm very glad that now she's fine, Alhamdullilah, All Praise be to God !
But, as the others have expressed, there is no basis in that argument. Those hadiths that you've quoted are just fine....and what you call "symptoms" are not of any disorder but are signs of revelation. It was difficult cuz it was encounter with something heavenly...so the reaction is obvious. Also, Moses (pbuh) reacted in a similar way..."Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.", "set me trembling on my hands and knees.", "While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground.", "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. ".....I don't know what their exact contexts are tho (got it from the cross-references on bible.cc)...but, don't you think the analogy is valid?

Many have thought this was a possibility. BUT GOD gave him miracles to prove that something more then a physical illness was at hand.

Same with Paul, but Paul was given the eyewitness of Jesus also going to Ananais.

Check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpLZ3Cf2I_s

It is about a young man today that is suffering from Temporal Lobe Seizures and his experience with religion.

[hyd]

The Prophet (sws) never experienced a loss of awareness of his surroundings - in fact he was very much aware and repeated a highly coherent and brilliant discourse which we know today as the Quran. To suggest that this was due to an epileptic fit, is nothing short of intellectual dishonesty propelled by prejudice and hate.

Adding to that:

[patrick]

this theory has already been consigned to the dustbin long time back, its so much trashed around that to take it out of the trashcan is to pour dirt on oneself (literally). For more, you can read :

http://www.amazon.com/The-Quranic-Ph.../dp/9839154257

The Prophet (sws) never experienced a loss of awareness of his surroundings - in fact he was very much aware and repeated a highly coherent and brilliant discourse which we know today as the Quran. To suggest that this was due to an epileptic fit, is nothing short of intellectual dishonesty propelled by prejudice and hate.

Do you thnk I hate Muslims? I find that so interesting when Muslims say things like that. The Quran is full of hate towards Jews and non-muslims.

Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400:
Narrated Aisha: Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done.

Hallucinating?:
Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 22, Number 301:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet once offered the prayer and said, "Satan came in front of me and tried to interrupt my prayer, but Allah gave me an upper hand on him and I choked him. No doubt, I thought of tying him to one of the pillars of the mosque till you get up in the morning and see him. Then I remembered the statement of Prophet Solomon, 'My Lord ! Bestow on me a kingdom such as shall not belong to any other after me.' Then Allah made him (Satan) return with his head down (humiliated)."

[hyd]

The Quran is full of hate towards Jews and non-muslims.

So is Bible. As for the Quran it mentions as a case study so we don't do the same mistakes as our predecessors. Back to the topic, excerpt from Hart's book:

My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels...

Muhammad founded and promulgated one of the world's great religions, and became an immensely effective political leader. Today, thirteen centuries after his death, his influence is still powerful and pervasive... Like all religions, Islam exerts an enormous influence upon the lives of its followers. It is for this reason that the founders of the world's great religions all figure prominently in this book. Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament.

Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition, he played the key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam. Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy scriptures, the Koran, a collection of certain of Muhammad's insights that he believed had been directly revealed to him by Allah. Most of these utterances were copied more or less faithfully during Muhammad's lifetime and were collected together in authoritative form not long after his death. The Koran therefore, closely represents Muhammad's ideas and teachings and to a considerable extent his exact words. No such detailed compilation of the teachings of Christ has survived. Since the Koran is at least as important to Moslems as the Bible is to Christians, the influence of Muhammed through the medium of the Koran has been enormous It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. On the purely religious level, then, it seems likely that Muhammad has been as influential in human history as Jesus.

Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as a religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time... the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

That is the man with a serious mental illness, right-o. Can it get any more absurd?

People with mental illnesses can have delusions and hallucinations but it is not felt by other people. If you want to go down the hadith route, here is another hadith that shows that other people felt the physical effects which would not be true if they were just hallucinations or delusions:
" Zaid ibn Thābit said, Allāh sent down revelation on His Messenger, peace and blessings of Allāh be on him, and his thigh was upon my thigh and it began to make its weight felt to me so much so that I feared that my thigh might be crushed."

[patrick]

So is Bible. As for the Quran it mentions as a case study so we don't do the same mistakes as our predecessors. Back to the topic, excerpt from Hart's book:

That is the man with a serious mental illness, right-o. Can it get any more absurd?

People with mental illnesses can have delusions and hallucinations but it is not felt by other people. If you want to go down the hadith route, here is another hadith that shows that other people felt the physical effects which would not be true if they were just hallucinations or delusions:
" Zaid ibn Thābit said, Allāh sent down revelation on His Messenger, peace and blessings of Allāh be on him, and his thigh was upon my thigh and it began to make its weight felt to me so much so that I feared that my thigh might be crushed."

Not quite. The Gospel is not about hate of a person but the sin. The Old Testament is not about prejudiced hate against all people.

The Quran is hate for all non-muslims.


You mention this:
" Zaid ibn Thābit said, Allāh sent down revelation on His Messenger, peace and blessings of Allāh be on him, and his thigh was upon my thigh and it began to make its weight felt to me so much so that I feared that my thigh might be crushed."

lol! What kind of proof is this? That is ridiculous! Mohammad simply used his own muscles to apply more pressure against Zaid's thigh.

Seriously what is going on that you believe some writing is from allah with no serious proof, but can't see TRUTH which is supported with all kinds of proof from GOD.

[shaad_lko]

Not quite. The Gospel is not about hate of a person but the sin. The Old Testament is not about prejudiced hate against all people.

The Quran is hate for all non-muslims.

what a silly comment.

You mention this:
" Zaid ibn Thābit said, Allāh sent down revelation on His Messenger, peace and blessings of Allāh be on him, and his thigh was upon my thigh and it began to make its weight felt to me so much so that I feared that my thigh might be crushed."

lol! What kind of proof is this? That is ridiculous! Mohammad simply used his own muscles to apply more pressure against Zaid's thigh.

quite obviously the analogy went over your head, since hyd was pointing out that if you use one Hadith to disprove Prophecy, then look at other Hadith which reaffirm the fact that the effect of revelation was felt by others.

Seriously what is going on that you believe some writing is from allah with no serious proof, but can't see TRUTH which is supported with all kinds of proof from GOD.

exactly, the feeling is mutual.

[shaad_lko]

Do you thnk I hate Muslims?

yes, either that or at best it could be your ignorance, if you are unable to discernibly apply your mind being fed on a diet of hate-filled stories about Islam. You need to come out of that environment, that would be my sincere advice to you..

The reason I posted the link to Bennabi's book is because he examines in detail the phenomenon of prophecy in the Abrahamic faiths, and critiques on the process of identification of false claimants to revelation. He produces a very interesting discourse on how revelation happens using the phenomenological route of philosophical discussion. Maybe if you read it, your doubts will be cleared and you will realize the truth of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) being a Messenger of God.

[patrick]

yes, either that or at best it could be your ignorance, if you are unable to discernibly apply your mind being fed on a diet of hate-filled stories about Islam. You need to come out of that environment, that would be my sincere advice to you..

The reason I posted the link to Bennabi's book is because he examines in detail the phenomenon of prophecy in the Abrahamic faiths, and critiques on the process of identification of false claimants to revelation. He produces a very interesting discourse on how revelation happens using the phenomenological route of philosophical discussion. Maybe if you read it, your doubts will be cleared and you will realize the truth of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) being a Messenger of God.

I don't hate Muslims.

I understand that Muslims always think people do when we question their faith, the Quran and Mohammad. They think they have become a "victim" of hate.

Which is all very interesting because Muslims attack all that is Christianity.

In reality it is their Quran and Islam that teaches hate and says hateful things towards all other people and yet they can never see it or they are simply lying to themselves.

[shaad_lko]

I don't hate Muslims.

I understand that Muslims always think people do when we question their faith, the Quran and Mohammad. They think they have become a "victim" of hate.

Which is all very interesting because Muslims attack all that is Christianity.

In reality it is their Quran and Islam that teaches hate and says hateful things towards all other people and yet they can never see it or they are simply lying to themselves.

I think victim of hate is the one who hates others, not the one who is hated. The problem is that you are prejudiced because of your prior formed opinions, you cannot fathom that truth lies somewhere else. A person can be honest only when he/she is willing to change when confronted by the truth.