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Thread: Now this is weird!!

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    Default Now this is weird!!

    http://english.alarabiya.net/article...25/210198.html

    Egypt’s women urge MPs not to pass early marriage, sex-after-death laws:
    Wednesday, 25 April 2012
    By ABEER TAYEL
    AL ARABIYA
    Egypt’s National Council for Women (NCW) has appealed to the Islamist-dominated parliament not to approve two controversial laws on the minimum age of marriage and allowing a husband to have sex with his dead wife within six hours of her death according to a report in an Egyptian newspaper.

    The appeal came in a message sent by Dr. Mervat al-Talawi, head of the NCW, to the Egyptian People’s Assembly Speaker, Dr. Saad al-Katatni, addressing the woes of Egyptian women, especially after the popular uprising that toppled president Hosni Mubarak in February 2011.

    She was referring to two laws: one that would legalize the marriage of girls starting from the age of 14 and the other that permits a husband to have sex with his dead wife within the six hours following her death.
    According to Egyptian columnist Amro Abdul Samea in al-Ahram, Talawi’s message included an appeal to parliament to avoid the controversial legislations that rid women of their rights of getting education and employment, under alleged religious interpretations.

    “Talawi tried to underline in her message that marginalizing and undermining the status of women in future development plans would undoubtedly negatively affect the country’s human development, simply because women represent half the population,” Abdul Samea said in his article.

    The controversy about a husband having sex with his dead wife came about after a Moroccan cleric spoke about the issue in May 2011.

    Zamzami Abdul Bari said that marriage remains valid even after death adding that a woman also too had the same right to engage in sex with her dead husband.

    Two years ago, Zamzami incited further controversy in Morocco when he said it was permissible for pregnant women to drink alcohol.

    But it seems his view on partners having sex with their deceased partners has found its way to Egypt one year on.

    Egyptian prominent journalist and TV anchor Jaber al-Qarmouty on Tuesday referred to Abdul Samea’s article in his daily show on Egyptian ON TV and criticized the whole notion of “permitting a husband to have sex with his wife after her death under a so-called ‘Farewell Intercourse’ draft law.”

    “This is very serious. Could the panel that will draft the Egyptian constitution possibly discuss such issues? Did Abdul Samea see by his own eyes the text of the message sent by Talawi to Katatni? This is unbelievable. It is a catastrophe to give the husband such a right! Has the Islamic trend reached that far? Is there really a draft law in this regard? Are there people thinking in this manner?”

    Many members of the newly-elected, and majority Islamist parliament, have been accused of launching attacks against women’s rights in the country.

    They wish to cancel many, if not most, of the laws that promote women’s rights, most notably a law that allows a wife to obtain a divorce without obstructions from her partner. The implementation of the Islamic right to divorce law, also known as the Khula, ended years of hardship and legal battles women would have to endure when trying to obtain a divorce.

    Egyptian law grants men the right to terminate a marriage, but grants women the opportunity to end an unhappy or abusive marriages without the obstruction of their partner. Prior to the implementation of the Khula over a decade ago, it could take 10 to 15 years for a woman to be granted a divorce by the courts.

    Islamist members of Egyptian parliament, however, accuse these laws of “aiming to destroy families” and have said it was passed to please the former first lady of the fallen regime, Suzanne Mubarak, who devoted much of her attention to the issues of granting the women all her rights.

    The parliamentary attacks on women’s rights has drawn great criticism from women’s organizations, who dismissed the calls and accused the MPs of wishing to destroy the little gains Egyptian women attained after long years of organized struggle.



    http://www.al-eman.com/ISLAMLIB/view...ID=137&CID=426

    #34424

    Narrated by Ibn Abbas: “I (Muhammad) put on her my shirt that she may wear the clothes of heaven, and I SLEPT with her in her coffin (grave) that I may lessen the pressure of the grave. She was the best of Allah’s creatures to me after Abu Talib”… The prophet was referring to Fatima , the mother of Ali.

    إني ألبستها قميصي لتلبس ثياب الجنة، واضطجعت معها في قبرها لأخفف من ضغطة القبر، إنها كانت أحسن خلق الله صنيعا إلى بعد أبي طالب – يعني فاطمة أم علي‏.‏

    The Arabic scholar Demetrius explains : “The Arabic word used here for “slept” is “Id’tajat,” and literally means “lay down” with her. It is often used to mean, “lay down to have sex.” Muhammad is understood as saying that because he slept with her she has become like a wife to him so she will be considered like a “mother of the believers.” This will supposedly prevent her from being tormented in the grave, since Muslims believed that as people wait for the Judgment Day they will be tormented in the grave. “Reduce the pressure” here means that the torment won’t be as much because she is now a “mother of the believers” after Muhammad slept with her and “consummated” the union.”

  2. #2
    Moderator shaad_lko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    the only thing weird is that you are picking up a falsified rumour and attempting to masquerade it as newsworthy :

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backc...ey-utter-hooey

    http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast....men-ctd-3.html

    its enough for a person to be discredited if he simply transmits everything he comes across..
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shaad_lko View Post
    the only thing weird is that you are picking up a falsified rumour and attempting to masquerade it as newsworthy :

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backc...ey-utter-hooey

    http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast....men-ctd-3.html

    its enough for a person to be discredited if he simply transmits everything he comes across..
    So the Egyptian state-run al-Ahram newspaper that first picked up the story is a joke? What about Egyptian ON TV who ran the story on Tuesday?

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Quote Originally Posted by patrick View Post
    So the Egyptian state-run al-Ahram newspaper that first picked up the story is a joke? What about Egyptian ON TV who ran the story on Tuesday?

    obviously, it is done with malafide intent - this is an occupational hazard of the media industry, I am surprised you know so little of corporate-political nexus. Anyway, if you choose to still live in denial:

    http://english.alarabiya.net/article...30/211238.html
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shaad_lko View Post
    obviously, it is done with malafide intent - this is an occupational hazard of the media industry, I am surprised you know so little of corporate-political nexus. Anyway, if you choose to still live in denial:

    http://english.alarabiya.net/article...30/211238.html
    Well of course people are very grossed out by the whole thing. Why would Mohammad do such a thing?

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Quote Originally Posted by patrick View Post
    Well of course people are very grossed out by the whole thing. Why would Mohammad do such a thing?
    dude, the parliament itself has denied the existence of any such draft - if people are grossed out, its because they are naive enough to believe in a silly hoax.

    Demetrius is not any Arabic scholar, and the translation is plain stupid - do yourself a favour, if you really want to learn Islam, stop listening to rumour-mongers, visit some real Muslims, or enrol in a theology/history course at a good college.
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shaad_lko View Post
    dude, the parliament itself has denied the existence of any such draft - if people are grossed out, its because they are naive enough to believe in a silly hoax.

    Demetrius is not any Arabic scholar, and the translation is plain stupid - do yourself a favour, if you really want to learn Islam, stop listening to rumour-mongers, visit some real Muslims, or enrol in a theology/history course at a good college.
    So are denying the Moroco cleric too?
    The controversy about a husband having sex with his dead wife came about after a Moroccan cleric spoke about the issue in May 2011.

    Zamzami Abdul Bari said that marriage remains valid even after death adding that a woman also too had the same right to engage in sex with her dead husband.

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Quote Originally Posted by patrick View Post
    So are denying the Moroco cleric too?
    The controversy about a husband having sex with his dead wife came about after a Moroccan cleric spoke about the issue in May 2011.

    Zamzami Abdul Bari said that marriage remains valid even after death adding that a woman also too had the same right to engage in sex with her dead husband.
    Moroccan cleric whom the boy next door in Morocco doesnt even know, right.. There are millions of such tom, dick and harry clerics who can say anything. If the parliament debated it, it would have been an issue I admit, but its just that - a piece of crap news..
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    well if someone said wrong, we should not keep on saying that he was nothing and nothing happened.
    just condemn it if it has happened and disconnect it from islam.
    @shaah_lko just please have a look at info about the guy who sparked this disgusting matter.

    Sheikh Abdul-Bari Zamzami (b. 1943 in Tanger, Moroccois) is a member of Moroccan Religious Scholars League. He studied jurisprudence at the hands of his father, the sheikh Muhammad Zamzami. In 1976, he moved to Casablanca where he became the khatib (a person who delivers the sermon (khutba) of the Yusufi Mosque, the Muhammadi Mosque and other mosques. He is one of the founding members of the International Union of Muslim Scholars. As of 2009, he is the khatib of famous Al-Hamra Mosque in the old Casablanca.

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    Moderator shaad_lko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    thanks for correcting me - in fact that partly explains why Shaikh Zamzami said what he said..

    Firstly, the news about Egypt is false. Secondly, although I would still say that Abdul Bari Zamzami, with due respect to him, is not a well-known scholar in the world of Islam, yet it seems he is prone to overt literalism that happens with some (which i explain below). Thirdly, if you read very precisely what Zamzami said, he did not talk about necrophilia (having sex with a dead corpse) - he specifically said the marriage remains valid after death. A naive and biased media which does not understand this will obviously interpret it in a different manner.

    There is a historical context to this issue and those who are aware of Islamic jurisprudence will know it very well - it is about Ali (rta)'s burial of Fatima (rta) and whether a husband becomes na-mahram to his deceased wife and if so, cannot bather or bury her. This becomes a pertinent issue when there is no other mahram male or lady available :

    http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?...=4657&CATE=168

    This debate is very old in fiqh - it is not an issue of necrophilia as was very unjustly portrayed but one of fiqhi deliberation and how to decently give a burial to the deceased.
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shaad_lko View Post
    thanks for correcting me - in fact that partly explains why Shaikh Zamzami said what he said..

    Firstly, the news about Egypt is false. Secondly, although I would still say that Abdul Bari Zamzami, with due respect to him, is not a well-known scholar in the world of Islam, yet it seems he is prone to overt literalism that happens with some (which i explain below). Thirdly, if you read very precisely what Zamzami said, he did not talk about necrophilia (having sex with a dead corpse) - he specifically said the marriage remains valid after death. A naive and biased media which does not understand this will obviously interpret it in a different manner.

    There is a historical context to this issue and those who are aware of Islamic jurisprudence will know it very well - it is about Ali (rta)'s burial of Fatima (rta) and whether a husband becomes na-mahram to his deceased wife and if so, cannot bather or bury her. This becomes a pertinent issue when there is no other mahram male or lady available :

    http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?...=4657&CATE=168

    This debate is very old in fiqh - it is not an issue of necrophilia as was very unjustly portrayed but one of fiqhi deliberation and how to decently give a burial to the deceased.
    So you remain married like the Mormons, but not for eternaty but 6 hours. Why then the virgins in paradise? If the man were to die very shortly after his wife would he be allowed access to the virgins? or would he have to wait the 6 hours? If the spouses were so n love why would there be a need for virgins? Why is the Islamic paradise so carnal? Actually alot of Islam seems to be about sex.

    So does “Id’tajat,” mean “lay down” with her and “lay down to have sex”?

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Sex is the reason why you're busy trolling around here so what is wrong with it when it is within the limits set by YHWH, whether in this life or in the next? In the Quran, YHWH refers in many places to the positive God-ordained nature of sexuality within limits, that there is nothing wrong in satisfying the sex desire in lawful ways.
    41:53 We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth.

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Quote Originally Posted by naderM View Post
    Sex is the reason why you're busy trolling around here so what is wrong with it when it is within the limits set by YHWH, whether in this life or in the next? In the Quran, YHWH refers in many places to the positive God-ordained nature of sexuality within limits, that there is nothing wrong in satisfying the sex desire in lawful ways.
    Why the personal attacks. CallinG me a troll!?!

    Absolutely nothing. Now prove allah of the Quran is YHWH.

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Its a fact, you're a troll. So if there's nothing wrong with satisfying one's sexual desires in lawful ways then what are you contending with. You first prove it is YHWH who revealed the Bible.
    41:53 We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth.

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    Default Re: Now this is weird!!

    Quote Originally Posted by patrick View Post
    Why is the Islamic paradise so carnal? Actually alot of Islam seems to be about sex.
    typical orientalist banter.. Actually, even intercourse with one's spouse is a virtue in Islam. You cannot understand it unless you come with a defogged mind..

    So does “Id’tajat,” mean “lay down” with her and “lay down to have sex”?
    No. Prophets in Islam are paragons of virtue, they neither indulge in drunkenness nor incest.. (and obviously this is because there is no interpolation in the Quran).
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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