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Thread: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

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    Default Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    With the Arab Spring, we've seen an increase in Christianophobic attacks - both inside and outside the Arab world.

    I've noted a small campaign to suicide bomb Christian targets that started in Iraq and has spread to Egypt, Indonesia and Nigeria. Nigerian Christians have been the target of several suicide bombings. We've also witnessed numerous unruly mob attacks on Christian communities in Egypt and Pakistan. And now Tunisian churches are being targeted and are having their crosses smeared with feces.

    Unfortunately, this uptick in Christianophobia is part of the wider campaign against Christians in the Muslim world. In most Muslim countries, Christian citizens are treated as second class citizens and discriminated against or have fewer rights than Muslims. There is also the issue of hate preachers and Muslim scholars who routinely spread hatred of Christians on popular satellite channels.

    With the rise of political Islam following the removal of secular dictatorships who once offered the region's religious minorities some degree of protection, will Christians of the Muslim world flee just as the Jews 60 years before them?

    I suspect we will be seeing a new chapter in the Muslim world. One where the region is less diverse than ever before. And if Christian communities continue to perpetuate in some regions, they will face greater levels of discrimination - such as what Jews and Christians experience in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    No. While these incidents are unfortunate there's no state-sponsored pogrom against Christians, so you cant equate them to what happened to Jews in Nazi Germany. But yes, perhaps Muslims could be the new Jews, especially in Europe..
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    I feel more sorry for the Hindus then the Christains. So much news of Muslims*killing and attacking Hindus in India and trying to get there law into action and so many Hindus are forced to convert into Islam to save there lives. It's not just Hindus it other beliefs too. See this is where it gets weird cause I already knew all this and this is how the world view Muslims. A violent bunch of people who are like terminaters destroying the human race.
    But then you see the good Muslims but you have that fear that they might be up to something. Luckly I haven't*experience this but I see it all the time on the news and ex muslims who were once victims warning people about Islam ect.

    There's gotta be some corruption somewhere in the scriptures that theses people are useing to support there actions. I'm just glad the Baptist Church don't completly follow all the OT laws other wise we too would fear Christains and there killing spree >_> * ***

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    actually, maximum casualties in Kashmir are Muslims themselves, and when terrorists strike they dont look into the religion of the person.. Dont always rely on what you hear from media channels as most of that is paid news anyway. I think in the context of South Asia, the establishment is becoming wiser gradually but of course there are vested interests/third parties who do not want peace to prevail..
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    Quote Originally Posted by shaad_lko View Post
    No. While these incidents are unfortunate there's no state-sponsored pogrom against Christians, so you cant equate them to what happened to Jews in Nazi Germany. But yes, perhaps Muslims could be the new Jews, especially in Europe..
    Well, actually there is state sponsored discrimination against Christians in the Muslim world - making the Muslim world very similar to Nazi Germany.

    But you said "no" to the idea that Christians could be the new Jews of the Muslim world and instead claimed Muslims could be the new Jews, especially in Europe.

    Do you care to elaborate your opinion? Why is the idea that Christians becoming the new Jews dismissed and replaced with the notion that Muslims could instead be the new Jews?

    Let's start off with discriminatory laws against Christians in the Muslim world and Muslims in Europe and work our way down to acts of violence against both religious communities in these respective regions to determine if your opinion has any merit.

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight View Post
    I feel more sorry for the Hindus then the Christains. So much news of Muslims*killing and attacking Hindus in India and trying to get there law into action and so many Hindus are forced to convert into Islam to save there lives. It's not just Hindus it other beliefs too. See this is where it gets weird cause I already knew all this and this is how the world view Muslims. A violent bunch of people who are like terminaters destroying the human race.
    But then you see the good Muslims but you have that fear that they might be up to something. Luckly I haven't*experience this but I see it all the time on the news and ex muslims who were once victims warning people about Islam ect.

    There's gotta be some corruption somewhere in the scriptures that theses people are useing to support there actions. I'm just glad the Baptist Church don't completly follow all the OT laws other wise we too would fear Christains and there killing spree >_> * ***
    Don't forget the massacres of Christians in East Timor and South Sudan. State sponsored war crimes involving millions dead and displaced.

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetofTolerance View Post
    Well, actually there is state sponsored discrimination against Christians in the Muslim world - making the Muslim world very similar to Nazi Germany.
    where- can you elaborate (since you are the one making the assertion)? The instances you mentioned are not state-sponsored at all... In fact, you're being anti-Semitic by comparing it to the concentration camps in which Jews were put into..

    But you said "no" to the idea that Christians could be the new Jews of the Muslim world and instead claimed Muslims could be the new Jews, especially in Europe.

    Do you care to elaborate your opinion? Why is the idea that Christians becoming the new Jews dismissed and replaced with the notion that Muslims could instead be the new Jews?

    Let's start off with discriminatory laws against Christians in the Muslim world and Muslims in Europe and work our way down to acts of violence against both religious communities in these respective regions to determine if your opinion has any merit.
    as for dismissing your idea, it is because you have not backed it up with any proof. Neither in Nigeria nor in Iraq or Egypt is there any official policy of discrimination against Christians. In fact, Coptic church is well and alive in Egypt, Nigeria is ruled by a Christian President at present so your claims are truly laughable.

    However, in Europe we have already seen concentration camps for Muslims in Bosnia, and moreover there is state-sponsored discrimination in France and Switzerland to name a few (like banning of face veil and banning of minarets). In Germany too, hijabis have been killed so there is a clear case of demonization of the other, like it happened to the European Jews..
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    where- can you elaborate (since you are the one making the assertion)? The instances you mentioned are not state-sponsored at all... In fact, you're being anti-Semitic by comparing it to the concentration camps in which Jews were put into..
    State sponsored discrimination against Christians in the Muslim world is the norm. I'm surprised I'm asked this question. Try looking at the laws against Christians in Algeria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Maldives and Iran for starters.

    And you can put away your strawman. I clearly mentioned discrimination against Christians in the Muslim world is analogous to discrimination against Jews in Nazi Germany. I won't bother replying to your posts if you continue to distort/make up what I write.

    In fact, Coptic church is well and alive in Egypt
    That's a strange fact. Copts complain of state discrimination and the facts are that Copts are leaving Egypt en masse:

    Nearly 93,000 Coptic Christians have left Egypt since 19 March, a report by an Egypt-based Coptic NGO has said.

    The number may increase to 250,000 by the end of 2011, according to Naguib Gabriel, the head of the Egyptian Federation of Human Rights, which released the report.

    The current trend of Coptic immigration endangers the structure of Egypt's population, Gabriel told Al-Masry Al-Youm on Sunday. He urged the ruling Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) and the Egyptian cabinet to work on curbing the phenomenon.

    Gabriel based the data stated in the report on information from Coptic churches and communities abroad.

    "Nearly 16,000 migrated to California, while 10,000 moved to New Jersey, 8000 to New York, and 8000 to other American states," according to Gabriel. "Around 14,000 left to Australia, 17,000 to Canada, and 20,000 settled in the Netherlands, Italy, England, Austria, Germany and France."

    Gabriel attributed the Coptic emigration to hardline Salafi groups seeking to apply Islamic law, deny Copts senior government posts, and reduce incoming tourism. He also blamed attacks on Coptic churches and the government's failure to bring attackers to justice.
    http://www.egyptindependent.com/news...ft-egypt-march

    Here's some proof of discriminatory laws in Egypt:

    Under Shari'a as practiced in the country, non-Muslim males must convert to Islam to marry Muslim women, but non-Muslim women need not convert to marry Muslim men. Muslim women are prohibited from marrying Christian men.

    Under Shari'a as interpreted by the Government, a non-Muslim wife who converts to Islam must divorce her non-Muslim husband. In some cases, upon the wife's conversion, local security authorities reportedly ask the non-Muslim husband if he is willing to convert to Islam; if he chooses not to, divorce proceedings may begin immediately and custody of children is awarded to the mother.

    Inheritance laws for all citizens are based on the Government's interpretation of Shari'a. Muslim female heirs receive half the amount of a male heir's inheritance. Christian widows of Muslims have no automatic inheritance rights but may be provided for in testamentary documents.

    Under Shari'a, converts from Islam lose all rights of inheritance. Because the Government offers no legal means for converts from Islam to Christianity to amend their civil records to reflect their new religious status, the converts' loss of inheritance rights may not be indicated on civil documents....

    The law prescribes administrative steps pursuant to the conversion of non-Muslims to Islam. The minor children of such converts, and in some cases adult children who were minors when their parents converted, may automatically become classified as Muslims by the Government irrespective of the religion of the other parent. This practice is in accordance with the Government's interpretation of Shari'a, which dictates "no jurisdiction of a non-Muslim over a Muslim."
    http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2009/127346.htm

    The article goes on to talk about the issue of church construction and renovation and how building and repairing churches is hindered in Egypt - citing numerous examples where government authorities obstructed Christians.

    More recently, a Christian priest has been arrested and sentenced to jail for six months over excessive church height:

    A court in Edfu has sentenced Reverend Makarios Bolous, pastor of St. George's Church in the village of Elmarinab, Edfu, in the Aswan province, to six months prison and a fine of 300 pounds for violations in the height of the church building. The court also ordered the removal of the excess height.

    The church had received a license from the Governor of Aswan and was still under construction, but it was torched by a Muslim mob on September 30, 2011 (AINA 10-1-2011). Construction workers had started removing the excess height before the torching of the church.

    "Since then no work has been done to it. We are not allowed to pray there or come near it by order of the authorities," said father Salib el-Deek of the Coptic diocese of Edfu. He said that they had proof that the church applied several times to the police to remove the excess, which it had started before the torching of the church, but were not granted permission. The police records were refused to be admitted as evidence by the court.

    The church lawyer also presented documents shwing that Rev. Makarios is not the one who is responsible for the removal of the excess height, but the architect and the building contractor, but the court refused to take this into consideration and Father Makarious was convicted...
    http://www.aina.org/news/20120306013944.htm

    Nigeria is ruled by a Christian President at present so your claims are truly laughable.
    So my claim that Christians are being bombed in Nigeria is laughable because they have a Christian president?

    However, in Europe we have already seen concentration camps for Muslims in Bosnia
    Likewise, Serbs were also victims of Muslims. We can compare Yugoslavia and their death toll to East Timor and the killings there.

    and moreover there is state-sponsored discrimination in France and Switzerland to name a few
    Happy to compared so-called state sponsored discrimination in France and Switzerland to Egypt and Iran.

    Are Muslims leaving either of those countries en mass by any chance?

    In Germany too, hijabis have been killed so there is a clear case of demonization of the other, like it happened to the European Jews..
    Great - let's look at attacks against Christians in Pakistan, Egypt, Indonesia, Nigeria, and elsewhere to see who is being demonized most: Christians in Muslim lands or Muslims in the West.

    I'll start with Egypt:

    A bomb killed at least 21 people outside a church in the Egyptian city of Alexandria early on New Year's Day and the Interior Ministry said a foreign-backed suicide bomber may have been responsible.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...6BU2VR20110101

    And mob attacks:

    Christian homes in the southern Egyptian village of Soul were attacked Saturday evening by a mob of Muslims, according to unconfirmed reports.

    Witnesses say the angry throng also set fire to the Saints Mina and George Coptic Church. A priest and two deacons were reported missing following the attack.
    http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/201...rch-in-Egypt-/

    Do you have any large scale bomb/suicide attacks against Muslims in the West and mob attacks you would like to cite as evidence?

    Now for Iran, before I forget:

    Only Muslims are able to take part in the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and to conduct public affairs at a high level. According to the Constitution, non-Muslims cannot hold the following key decision-making positions:

    - President of the Islamic Republic of Iran, who must be a Shi'a Muslim (Article 1156)


    - Commanders in the Islamic Army (Article 1447)


    - Judges, at any level (Article 163 and law of 1983 on the selection of judges 8)


    Moreover, non-Muslims are not eligible to become members of the Parliament (the Islamic Consultative Assembly) through the general elections. Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians can only run for the specific seats allocated to these minorities by Article 64 of the Constitution: one seat for Zoroastrians, one seat for Jews, one seat for Assyrian and Chaldean Christians, one seat for Armenian Christians in the North and one seat for Armenian Christian in the South. However, these minorities are unable to play a role in mainstream politics. As for the nonrecognized religious minorities, they are totally excluded from any Parliamentary representation since they can neither vote nor be elected.

    Finally, non-Muslims cannot become members of the very influential Guardian Council....

    A study of the Penal Code of the Islamic Republic of Iran reveals that, for a number of offences, the punishment differs in function of the religion of the victim and/or the religion of the offender. The fate of Muslim victims and offenders is systematically more favorable than that of non-Muslims, showing that the life and physical integrity of Muslims is given a much higher value than that of non-Muslims. This institutionalized discrimination is particularly blatant for the following crimes10:

    The sanctions for adultery vary widely according to the religion of both members of the couple. A Muslim man who commits adultery with a Muslim woman is punished by 100 lashes (Article 8811). However, a non-Muslim man who commits adultery with a Muslim woman is subject to the death penalty (Article 82-c12). If a Muslim man commits adultery with a non-Muslim woman, the Penal Code does not specify any penalty....

    "Qisas", or retaliation, is the right of revenge belonging to the victim's heir. It implies that the punishment be equivalent in nature and severity to the offence. In the case of a murder, such a punishment is the death penalty. "Diyah", or "blood money" compensation, is the possibility offered to the victim's heir to forgo their right to "qisas" by accepting monetary compensation in exchange.


    Articles 20714 and 20915 of the Penal Code provide that "qisas" is applicable when a Muslim is murdered. It is also applicable when the member of a recognized religious minority murders another member of a recognized religious minority (Article 21016). However, no provision of the Penal Code envisages the murder of a non-Muslim by a Muslim, the punishment of which is left to the discretion of the judges. Article 2 of the Penal Code states that "Every action or omission of an action for which there is a punishment in law, will be regarded as an offence". On the contrary, in the absence of any punishment in law (like in the case of the murder of a non-Muslim by a Muslim) a judge can consider that no offence has taken place at all.

    Article 29717 sets forth the rules for the calculation of the "blood money" to be paid to the family when the victim is a Muslim man. Its exact value is set each year to a certain amount by the Judiciary. At the date of the publication of the present report, the "blood money" compensation for a non-Muslim male victim who is a member of a recognized religious minority, or of a female victim (Muslim or non-Muslim) remains half of the compensation offered to the family of a Muslim male victim. Claims by relatives of a victim who was a member of a non-recognized religious minority are purely dismissed....


    Article 881 of the Civil Code states that a non-Muslim is not allowed to inherit property from a Muslim. Moreover, the same article states that if one of the beneficiaries of a non-Muslim is Muslim, this individual (regardless of that person's degree of relationship with the deceased) will collect the entire inheritance to the detriment of all other non-Muslim members of the family. In practice, this law not only discriminates against religious minorities but also encourages conversion to Islam through the lure of material retribution....

    Marriage between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man is forbidden by Article 1059 of the Civil Code. However, Muslim men are allowed to marry non-Muslim women. This distinction is justified by the fact that the man is deemed to be the dominant partner in the couple. Therefore, if the man is Muslim, Islam is supposed to be dominant in the couple, whereas it would not be the case if the woman were Muslim and the man non-Muslim....
    http://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/ir0108a.pdf

    Christians in Iran may not:

    enter high office in the military or government
    run for political office
    proselytize
    receive any inheritance from a Muslim relative or if there is a Muslim family member to receive inheritance
    receive equal justice under the law
    marry Muslim women but Muslim men can have Christian wives

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetofTolerance View Post
    State sponsored discrimination against Christians in the Muslim world is the norm. I'm surprised I'm asked this question. Try looking at the laws against Christians in Algeria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Maldives and Iran for starters.
    sure, this is why South Sudan was created and why thousands of expat Christians enjoy separate facilities in Saudi Arabia.. carry on your fanciful daydreaming..

    And you can put away your strawman. I clearly mentioned discrimination against Christians in the Muslim world is analogous to discrimination against Jews in Nazi Germany. I won't bother replying to your posts if you continue to distort/make up what I write.
    You can bother or not bother about trillions of stuff. But you never mentioned Nazi Germany in the first instance - in fact your even more ludicrous assertion was that Jews were discriminated against in the Muslim world, so you are guilty of conveniently sidestepping the larger issue of actual discrimination against Jews by Europe. And this is why I set right that historical inaccuracy in your claims by referring you back to Europe which is once again discriminating against its Muslim citizenry.


    That's a strange fact. Copts complain of state discrimination and the facts are that Copts are leaving Egypt en masse:



    http://www.egyptindependent.com/news...ft-egypt-march

    Here's some proof of discriminatory laws in Egypt:



    http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2009/127346.htm

    The article goes on to talk about the issue of church construction and renovation and how building and repairing churches is hindered in Egypt - citing numerous examples where government authorities obstructed Christians.

    More recently, a Christian priest has been arrested and sentenced to jail for six months over excessive church height:



    http://www.aina.org/news/20120306013944.htm
    no one is saying that there is no discrimination - minorities are discriminated against all over in the third world, but this still doesnt support your thread title. Further, the discrimination is precisely because Sharia is not in place - else it safeguards minority rights and ensures full justice.

    So my claim that Christians are being bombed in Nigeria is laughable because they have a Christian president?
    Once again, if you cant see how your thread has turned hollow, I cant help it..


    Likewise, Serbs were also victims of Muslims. We can compare Yugoslavia and their death toll to East Timor and the killings there.
    Now, South Sudan and East Timor did gain independence. One could argue why the same did not happen in the case of Kosovo. Further, your statement is patently ahistorical in that Bosnia was the worst crime against humanity ever since WWII. You have to be blind to not see the concentration camps..

    we could go on but its pointless... All I can say is its unfortunate that there is so less tolerance in the world, but by painting a one-sided picture, its not gonna help in any way either..
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    sure, this is why South Sudan was created
    So Christians in Sudan share equal rights with Muslims?

    Speaking of Sudan, the country is pushing to expel hundreds of thousands of remaining Christians:

    Sudanese Christians who have barely a month to leave the north or risk being treated as foreigners are starting to move, but Christian leaders are concerned that the 8 April deadline set by Islamic-majority Sudan is unrealistic.

    "We are very concerned. Moving is not easy ... people have children in school. They have homes ... It is almost impossible," Roman Catholic Bishop Daniel Adwok, the Khartoum archdiocese auxiliary told ENInews in a telephone interview on 7 March.

    Sudan in February announced the deadline for the former citizens it had stripped of nationality after South Sudan's January 2011 vote to secede. The ultimatum will affect an estimated 500,000-700,000 people, who are mainly Christians of southern origin that still live in the north.

    Many of them fled north during the long civil war fought between the Government of Sudan and the former rebels, the Sudan People's Liberation Movement. They have lived there for decades together with children who were born there. Few have ties with South Sudan.

    The people are desperate to move, according to reports, following the deadline and increasing tensions between the two nations over oil wealth. The tensions started escalating in January after the north allegedly started taking crude oil from the landlocked south, which it was exporting through a pipeline to Port Sudan on the Red Sea.

    "We want the rights of these people addressed by the two parliaments. Everyone has a right to choose where they want to live. It is a human right," said Adwok.

    Sudan amended its laws after the south's independence to say that Sudanese people automatically lose citizenship when they acquire by right or by other means the citizenship of South Sudan. Sudanese people in the north with any parents, grandparents or great grandparents born in the South Sudan or belong to any southern ethnic group are considered that country's nationals.

    "That's the official deadline, but we don't know how the Khartoum regime will react," said John Ashworth, an advisor of the Sudan Ecumenical Forum.

    Some church leaders fear increased persecution of Christians in the north or even forced repatriation for those who may want to stay. "The fears have been there from the beginning. There could be some form of harassment, and that could intensify after that date, but for forceful removal, it is hard to ascertain," said the Rev. Don Bosco Ochieng, a Roman Catholic priest in the Rumbek diocese.

    Aid agencies are calling for the extension of the deadline, warning that it will create a logistical and humanitarian catastrophe.
    http://www.eni.ch/featured/article.php?id=5521

    why thousands of expat Christians enjoy separate facilities in Saudi Arabia.. carry on your fanciful daydreaming..
    So is Christianity legal in Saudi Arabia and Christians enjoy full equal rights as Muslims under the law?

    But you never mentioned Nazi Germany in the first instance - in fact your even more ludicrous assertion was that Jews were discriminated against in the Muslim world
    They aren't?

    Can a Jew travel to Saudi Arabia?

    And this is why I set right that historical inaccuracy in your claims by referring you back to Europe which is once again discriminating against its Muslim citizenry.
    Great - let's also look at the alleged discrimination against Muslims in Europe and compare it to discrimination against Christians (and Jews) in the Muslim world.

    no one is saying that there is no discrimination - minorities are discriminated against all over in the third world, but this still doesnt support your thread title.
    Actually, wouldn't Christians leaving Egypt en masse support my thread title that Christians in the Muslim world are becoming the new Jews (Jews, as you will recall, fled or were expelled from much of the Muslim world starting 60 years ago)?

    Further, the discrimination is precisely because Sharia is not in place - else it safeguards minority rights and ensures full justice.
    Actually, sharia/Islamic law is the reason cited for discrimination against Christians. Read the articles covering the laws discriminating against Christians in Egypt and Iran. It's based entirely on each country's laws based on Islam - restrictions against non-Muslims in government, church building, proselytizing, etc are all discriminatory laws found in sharia.

    Further, your statement is patently ahistorical in that Bosnia was the worst crime against humanity ever since WWII.
    60-80,000 Christians/East Timor citizens were slaughtered when the Indonesians invaded.

    I'd like to see a quantitative justification to your statement that Bosnia was a worse crime against humanity than East Timor.

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    firstly, comparison of crimes of different groups reveals a sick mindset. Secondly, the main issue with this thread is that you have conveniently sidestepped the two largest massacres/genocides in modern history (namely, the bombings at Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and the Holocaust).

    Now, it is a historical fact that for thousands (yes thousands) of years, Jews lived in peace with Muslims in the lands ruled by the latter, most of which whether they practised Sharia or not, still referred to it to give minorities their due rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetofTolerance View Post
    So is Christianity legal in Saudi Arabia and Christians enjoy full equal rights as Muslims under the law?


    as I said, expats enjoy way more rights than locals in KSA - if you're a white skin, the sheikhs would run to rub their noses to your shoes..


    Actually, wouldn't Christians leaving Egypt en masse support my thread title that Christians in the Muslim world are becoming the new Jews (Jews, as you will recall, fled or were expelled from much of the Muslim world starting 60 years ago)?
    You're a victim of historical revisionism - Jews were not en masse expelled or fled from anywhere but Europe. In the Muslim world, they enjoyed relative freedom until Israel was created and hence their natural inclination to settle there.


    Actually, sharia/Islamic law is the reason cited for discrimination against Christians. Read the articles covering the laws discriminating against Christians in Egypt and Iran. It's based entirely on each country's laws based on Islam - restrictions against non-Muslims in government, church building, proselytizing, etc are all discriminatory laws found in sharia.
    oh, then why are people in Egypt clamouring for Sharia in the first instance if its already "imposed" there?



    60-80,000 Christians/East Timor citizens were slaughtered when the Indonesians invaded.

    I'd like to see a quantitative justification to your statement that Bosnia was a worse crime against humanity than East Timor.
    in East Timor, 18k people were unfortunately killed over a 25 year period, so your figures are way inflated.. in Bosnia, shamefully enough 100k people were killed in 3 years flat and an equal number displaced.. these figures are apart from those who died due to other causes like hunger, etc. and here are the sources fyi..:


    https://www.hrdag.org/resources/timo..._page_02.shtml

    http://www.unhcr.org/4bbb422512.html

    http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-e...0.6359674.html
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    oh, then why are people in Egypt clamouring for Sharia in the first instance if its already "imposed" there?
    Egyptian Christians aren't clamoring for Sharia in Egypt. That's why Christians and liberals boycotted the recent 100 member legislative body that was set up to write Egypt's new constitution.

    You're a victim of historical revisionism - Jews were not en masse expelled or fled from anywhere but Europe. In the Muslim world, they enjoyed relative freedom until Israel was created and hence their natural inclination to settle there.
    It's true Jews fled Muslim rule in Spain under the Almohads but Jews also fled/were expelled from the Muslim world since the creation of Israel. It's, in fact, revisionist to claim otherwise.

    as I said, expats enjoy way more rights than locals in KSA - if you're a white skin, the sheikhs would run to rub their noses to your shoes..
    Really? I somehow doubt that African workers feel they have more rights than locals in SA. But the question you keep avoiding: Is Christianity legal in Saudi Arabia? No need to sidestep the issue by blaming whites.

    in East Timor, 18k people were unfortunately killed over a 25 year period, so your figures are way inflated..
    Sorry, but why is my figure - based on multiple sources - inflated? Because you have one link that has the death records of 18k people who were directly killed?

    My sources, which are just as credible as your website, say around 60,000 East Timor citizens were killed in the first few years of the invasion.

    in Bosnia, shamefully enough 100k people were killed in 3 years flat and an equal number displaced.. these figures are apart from those who died due to other causes like hunger, etc. and here are the sources fyi..:
    Actually, that figure appears to include the combined deaths from all sides in the conflict. Most (credible) sources put the number of Bosniak deaths between 65-70K, including soldiers. Civilian casualties range between 25K-33K. And I couldn't determine if those sources included deaths due to hunger, cold and illness. Your last article is silent on the issue, so I'm wondering how you know the death toll doesn't include death from hunger, illness and exposure.

  13. #13
    Moderator shaad_lko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetofTolerance View Post
    Egyptian Christians aren't clamoring for Sharia in Egypt. That's why Christians and liberals boycotted the recent 100 member legislative body that was set up to write Egypt's new constitution.
    once again the point sailed over your head.. If Muslims are still clamouring for Sharia in Egypt, then why blame the current persecution on official Sharia imposition, seems to be a problem with tenses there.

    It's true Jews fled Muslim rule in Spain under the Almohads but Jews also fled/were expelled from the Muslim world since the creation of Israel. It's, in fact, revisionist to claim otherwise.
    you know nothing of history then - Salauddin's chief physician was a Jew and they occupied high posts in Ottoman history..



    Really? I somehow doubt that African workers feel they have more rights than locals in SA. But the question you keep avoiding: Is Christianity legal in Saudi Arabia? No need to sidestep the issue by blaming whites.
    its very much legal there. Have you even been there?

    Sorry, but why is my figure - based on multiple sources - inflated? Because you have one link that has the death records of 18k people who were directly killed?

    My sources, which are just as credible as your website, say around 60,000 East Timor citizens were killed in the first few years of the invasion.
    which source did you post on Timor? And btw, mine was a California based organization that is known for objectivity..

    Actually, that figure appears to include the combined deaths from all sides in the conflict. Most (credible) sources put the number of Bosniak deaths between 65-70K, including soldiers. Civilian casualties range between 25K-33K. And I couldn't determine if those sources included deaths due to hunger, cold and illness. Your last article is silent on the issue, so I'm wondering how you know the death toll doesn't include death from hunger, illness and exposure.
    okay, so now you want to play up the numbers game. Just read the reports on the Hague trials of Milosevic, Kradzjic, Mladic and you will know the rest.. As I said earlier, a crime is a crime and there's no point comparing the numbers. What is reprehensible is taking sides based on prejudiced convenience..
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    you know nothing of history then - Salauddin's chief physician was a Jew and they occupied high posts in Ottoman history..
    I'm sorry, but before you accuse someone of not knowing history, could you pray tell the connection between the Almohad empire expelling/persecuting Jews and Saladin?

    once again the point sailed over your head.. If Muslims are still clamouring for Sharia in Egypt, then why blame the current persecution on official Sharia imposition, seems to be a problem with tenses there.
    It was not a very good "point".

    The discriminatory laws in Egypt against Christians are based on sharia. When did I say Egypt was a full sharia state? Try reading.

    its very much legal there. Have you even been there?
    Really? Could you please tell which of the following quote is inaccurate:

    Saudi Arabia allows Christians to enter the country as foreign workers for temporary work, but does not allow them to practice their faith openly. Because of that Christians generally only worship in secret within private homes.[3] Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are prohibited.[3] These include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols, and others.[3]

    The Saudi Arabian Mutaween (Arabic: مطوعين), or Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (i.e., the religious police) prohibits the practice of any religion other than Islam.[3] Conversion of a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy,[3] a crime punishable by death (Capital punishment in Saudi Arabia) if the accused does not recant.[3] The Government does not permit non-Muslim clergy to enter the country for the purpose of conducting religious services.[3]
    So no churches can be set up and no Bibles. Yeah, Christianity is "very legal there".

    which source did you post on Timor? And btw, mine was a California based organization that is known for objectivity..
    The wikipedia article on East Timor cites several sources. You can check to verify the sources listed on their webpage.

  15. #15
    Moderator shaad_lko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Christians becoming the new Jews?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetofTolerance View Post
    I'm sorry, but before you accuse someone of not knowing history, could you pray tell the connection between the Almohad empire expelling/persecuting Jews and Saladin?
    Muslim rule was the golden age of Jewish life in the Iberian peninsula - I thought you committed a typo by writing that but you seem to be living in another world.. the expulsion of jews was by the Christian edicts and not by any Muslims, and Maimonedes was an Iberian Jew who came to be Saladin's physician - these are some basic facts which one is supposed to know before discussing history..


    It was not a very good "point".

    The discriminatory laws in Egypt against Christians are based on sharia. When did I say Egypt was a full sharia state? Try reading.
    Sharia being by nature indivisible, either Egypt is under Sharia or not - so you have to choose one or your whole argument goes down the drain (if it hasnt already..)


    Really? Could you please tell which of the following quote is inaccurate:



    So no churches can be set up and no Bibles. Yeah, Christianity is "very legal there".
    as I said, you havent been there and you are relying on media reports. There are separate colonies and settlements. Also, Saudi Arabia doesnt give nationality to even Muslim expats, so leave alone the claim that it only allows temporary Christian visitors.



    The wikipedia article on East Timor cites several sources. You can check to verify the sources listed on their webpage.
    Where do you think I got the East Timor article ref from ... ?
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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