Soul

[alan]

Oh. Okay. I guess maybe souls don't exist then. I'll ask my Biology teacher where self-awareness comes from (he has a PhD and is a genius).

How will that impact on your "muslim" beliefs?Or will it give you new meaning to your Islam?

[sweet_potatoes]

How will that impact on your "muslim" beliefs?Or will it give you new meaning to your Islam?

Umm...I dunno. Sorry.

But you believe in a soul right? Why?

[alan]

Umm...I dunno. Sorry.

But you believe in a soul right? Why?

Based on what has just been said,do you?
I believe Iam a creation,therefore not individually eternal.

[sweet_potatoes]

Based on what has just been said,do you?
I believe Iam a creation,therefore not individually eternal.

Er...I dunno. Sorry. I'm not really sure what it is. Google says a soul is:

1. The spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.
2. A person's moral or emotional nature or sense of identity.

I think (2) isn't what they mean by a "rational soul", plus, that's just hormones and stuff that make you emotional.

And I don't see what the use of (1) is at all. I think Ibn Sina and all those other guys are talking about this one though, not about (2).

And...errrrrr.......sorry, what do you mean? Do you mean you disagree with these guys when they say:

Some, like al-Farabi, believed that the rational soul may or may not survive eternally; others, like Ibn Sina, believed that it has no beginning and no end; still others, such as Ibn Rushd, believed that the soul with all its individual parts comes into existence and is eventually destroyed.

[alan]

Er...I dunno. Sorry. I'm not really sure what it is. Google says a soul is:



I think (2) isn't what they mean by a "rational soul", plus, that's just hormones and stuff that make you emotional.

And I don't see what the use of (1) is at all. I think Ibn Sina and all those other guys are talking about this one though, not about (2).

And...errrrrr.......sorry, what do you mean? Do you mean you disagree with these guys when they say:

I cannot concieve the imaterial,its is beyond me.I believe that Iam part of something bigger,that is eternal.

[sweet_potatoes]

I cannot concieve the imaterial,its is beyond me.I believe that Iam part of something bigger,that is eternal.

Oh. So like,, Buddhism or something? Why aren't you a Buddhist? My teacher said that Buddhists believe that, I dunno, the Brahman is, like, manifested in reality or something. It was super-confusing. It's like a life-force. Is that what you mean?

The more I read up on the soul, the more I think that philosophers don't have a clue what they're talking about. It sounds like random words just strung together. Like, read this:

When Muslim philosophers assert that the soul comes into existence simultaneously with the coming into existence of the body, some, such as Ibn Sina (§6), who believe that the rational soul is in essence non*material, are thinking only of the non-rational soul. Others, such as Ibn Rushd (§3), who believe that the rational soul is originally not separate from matter, contend that the whole human soul comes into existence. The latter believe that since the rational soul grasps the universals from particular sensibles, and since such sensibles are material and have a temporal beginning, this soul must also be material and must have a temporal beginning. Those who attribute non-materiality to the essence of the rational soul, such as AL-KINDI and Ibn Sina, assert that this soul pre-exists the body. While all of them agree that the non-rational soul is destroyed after the destruc*tion of the body, they differ with regard to the end of the rational soul.

I mean, what the heck?!?!

[alan]

Oh. So like,, Buddhism or something? Why aren't you a Buddhist? My teacher said that Buddhists believe that, I dunno, the Brahman is, like, manifested in reality or something. It was super-confusing. It's like a life-force. Is that what you mean?

The more I read up on the soul, the more I think that philosophers don't have a clue what they're talking about. It sounds like random words just strung together. Like, read this:



I mean, what the heck?!?!

I believe all Prophets guide to the same direction.I believe that is Islamic.

[sweet_potatoes]

I believe all Prophets guide to the same direction.I believe that is Islamic.

Oh. Right. Yeah, all prophets were Muslim. Even I know that!

Who's that guy in your avatar?

[alan]

Oh. Right. Yeah, all prophets were Muslim. Even I know that!

Who's that guy in your avatar?

Me.

[sweet_potatoes]

Me.

Okey dokeys. Thanks.

[alan]

Okey dokeys. Thanks.

FYI,the mysterious Avatar,I like him as he liked to stick twos up to scholars.

[sweet_potatoes]

FYI,the mysterious Avatar,I like him as he liked to stick twos up to scholars.

What does "stick two"s mean? Dude, is this another English colloquialism?

[sweet_potatoes]

Alan:

So I asked my Bio teacher today and he said:

We don't generally think a frog has self-awareness, since it doesn't usually think it terms of consequences. It has some level of awareness since it is aware of another frog, but mostly frogs just respond to stimuli. That is why, if a hungry predator rushes at two frogs, they will both run for it without concern for the other frog. However, higher/more intelligent species, like gorillas and lions and stuff, display self-awareness since they can think about consequences. So if a predator rushes for two lions, they will be aware of the other one. This is useful from a social standpoint, since these animals tend to hunt in groups and it's more useful for the animal to be aware of its hunting partner, so that's why this trait was selected. Also, self-awareness is how the brain interprets signals and is a series of reactions in the brain, not limited to one particular area in the brain.

So. Yeah. That's it. Cool eh?

[alan]

Thats very interesting.
Does it help you with your soul Question?
Is this higher awareness generated by a biological unit or is it there in the ether before a body is formed?

[sweet_potatoes]

I have no idea. :/ Sorry.

I guess MAYBE the soul is the bit that is BEING self-aware, like, maybe self-awareness caused by other things but then the soul is aware of itself through the brain or something? Like, kind of like a consciousness or something. I'll ask him what consciousness is tomorrow inshaAllah. I don't know if there's a difference between self-awareness and consciousness though.

Alan, why are you Muslim? Today someone asked me why I'm Muslim and I was like: "Umm....I dunno." I told him to read the Qur'an. Do you have a reason?