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Thread: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

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    Default UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120204/D9SMHL780.html

    KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Last year was the deadliest on record for civilians in the Afghan war, with 3,021 killed as insurgents ratcheted up violence with suicide attacks and roadside bombs, the United Nations said Saturday.

    Taliban-affiliated militants were responsible for more than three-quarters of the civilian deaths in 2011, the fifth year in a row in which the death toll went up, the U.N. said.
    The figures were a grim testament to the violence the Taliban and allied Islamist militants can still unleash in Afghanistan, even as NATO begins to map out plans for international troops to draw down and give Afghan security forces the main responsibility for fighting insurgents by the end of 2014.

    "A decade after the war began, the human cost of it is still rising," said Georgette Gagnon, director for human rights for the U.N. mission in Afghanistan. The number of civilian deaths was up 8 percent over the previous year.

    Deaths in suicide bombings jumped dramatically to 450, an 80 percent increase over the previous year. While the number of suicide attacks remained about the same, they killed more civilians. On Dec. 6, a bomber detonated his explosives-filled vest at the entrance of a mosque in Kabul, the capital, killing 56 worshippers during the Shiite Muslim rituals of Ashoura. It was the single deadliest suicide attack since 2008.
    Until I read the various holy texts (the koran, hadith and sunnah), that moslems revere as muhammud's literal word, I simply couldn't understood the resignation or fatalism that moslems succumb to such that they will willing allow themselves to become the victims of the fellow moslems.

    There is a pathology which is the engine underlying this mindset that is encapsulated within the various islamic texts that provides a simple proscription, one we witness most every day with reports of the most recent mass murder: death in furtherance of the religion is "martyrdom". Mass murder in furtherance of addressing a perceived grievance when done in the name of the religion is allowable.

    This is a core component of islamist religious doctrine; life tends to be cheap because the adherent's believe that life continues after death; that there are rewards for martyrdom and that life is replaceable by the gods. There is an allowance for killing because you are "sending them to a better place" and an allowance for being the victim because there are rewards for being martyred. Most of stand in shocked disbelief at the carnage that muslims are so willing to inflict on themselves and others. Or, at least we used to be shocked. Now we just count the bodies.

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Resigned View Post
    UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120204/D9SMHL780.html


    Until I read the various holy texts (the koran, hadith and sunnah), that moslems revere as muhammud's literal word, I simply couldn't understood the resignation or fatalism that moslems succumb to such that they will willing allow themselves to become the victims of the fellow moslems.

    There is a pathology which is the engine underlying this mindset that is encapsulated within the various islamic texts that provides a simple proscription, one we witness most every day with reports of the most recent mass murder: death in furtherance of the religion is "martyrdom". Mass murder in furtherance of addressing a perceived grievance when done in the name of the religion is allowable.

    This is a core component of islamist religious doctrine; life tends to be cheap because the adherent's believe that life continues after death; that there are rewards for martyrdom and that life is replaceable by the gods. There is an allowance for killing because you are "sending them to a better place" and an allowance for being the victim because there are rewards for being martyred. Most of stand in shocked disbelief at the carnage that muslims are so willing to inflict on themselves and others. Or, at least we used to be shocked. Now we just count the bodies.
    Killing yourself and others around you by strapping a bomb to your chest is not at all Islamic and it's far from being called "martyrdom".

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicStar View Post
    Killing yourself and others around you by strapping a bomb to your chest is not at all Islamic and it's far from being called "martyrdom".
    What we have are facts that represent that "true spiritual Muslim(s)" are precisely the people who believe that they are practicing the true teachings of islam by committing acts of mass murder.

    I'll take your post to mean that you find no connection at all between Muslims who commit mass murder and their politico-religious perspectives?

    I'll take your post to mean that you believe the 19 hijackers who plowed commercial airliners in the WTC weren't affected by religious motivations – they were just upset at the choice of the in-flight movie.

    We're to believe then that the act of driving a bomb laden car in a crowd of people is not connected with religious perceptions?

    Well sorry, but there is every reason to believe that the people who commit the most horrendous mass murders are deeply religious, pious Muslims who derive inspiration for their acts from their religious perspectives.

    The fact that (extra)ordinary people such as the man who stood up to one of Allah's thugs -and won- by preventing our holy warrior hero Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab from blowing out the side of a commercial airliner is supremely inspiring. Every person on that potential flying mass coffin went through something we cannot imagine—something no one should ever have to imagine. The passengers on that flight lived through it. They are fortunate and they deserve nothing less than the fair and honest portrayal of who they confronted on Northwest Flight 253, why Abdulmutallab was allowed to be on board and where his motivations derived.

    This was bound to happen. What may be the only positive aspect that can come of it is that it illustrates what is good about people who will not allow themselves to be slaughtered in the name of someone else's angry deity. It's a valuable lesson because it reminds us that this can happen to us. In 2001, multiple airline hijackings happened to us and we witnessed the murderers reciting the shahada and Koranic verses as they prepared to kill innocent civilians in the name of their God. We need to remember how stunned, horrified, and angry we were on that day. Why? Because the people who did it are not finished, and if there is a "next time", it could be just as horrific.

    Evil does walk the Earth, and its most hideous form is that which claims to act in the name of the Islamic god and his partner. The ultimate perversion of a God's gift of life and love is the wanton destruction of that gift in His name. Whatever faith you subscribe to, and even if you subscribe to none, you cannot fail to recognize this truth if you are someone who oves goodness and justice. When it comes time to face evil, it is often the common man and woman who become uncommonly courageous. We saw this on Northwest Flight 253. They win the battles and they make the difference.

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Why did you feel a need to spam the thread with links to silly conspiracy theories?

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Resigned, do you support (some degree of) economic equality?

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Polog View Post
    Resigned, do you support (some degree of) economic equality?
    I don't see how that question is relevant to the thread.

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Resigned View Post
    I don't see how that question is relevant to the thread.
    Think of how many millions have been killed in the name of economic equality.

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Resigned View Post
    Why did you feel a need to spam the thread with links to silly conspiracy theories?
    Yeah bro Shaad, he's right. Why'd you feel the need when the thread is already spam?

    Just kidding Resigned. I understand your sentiments, I seriously do.

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Resigned View Post
    What we have are facts that represent that "true spiritual Muslim(s)" are precisely the people who believe that they are practicing the true teachings of islam by committing acts of mass murder.
    But they're wrong if their acts are unjust.

    I'll take your post to mean that you find no connection at all between Muslims who commit mass murder and their politico-religious perspectives?
    Yep. Totally.

    I'll take your post to mean that you believe the 19 hijackers who plowed commercial airliners in the WTC weren't affected by religious motivations – they were just upset at the choice of the in-flight movie.

    We're to believe then that the act of driving a bomb laden car in a crowd of people is not connected with religious perceptions?
    mmhmm.

    Don't ever forget that.

    Well sorry, but there is every reason to believe that the people who commit the most horrendous mass murders are deeply religious, pious Muslims who derive inspiration for their acts from their religious perspectives.
    How do know?

    The fact that (extra)ordinary people such as the man who stood up to one of Allah's thugs -and won- by preventing our holy warrior hero Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab from blowing out the side of a commercial airliner is supremely inspiring. Every person on that potential flying mass coffin went through something we cannot imagine—something no one should ever have to imagine. The passengers on that flight lived through it. They are fortunate and they deserve nothing less than the fair and honest portrayal of who they confronted on Northwest Flight 253, why Abdulmutallab was allowed to be on board and where his motivations derived.
    Why do you bring this up now? The guy was prosecuted.

    This was bound to happen. What may be the only positive aspect that can come of it is that it illustrates what is good about people who will not allow themselves to be slaughtered in the name of someone else's angry deity. It's a valuable lesson because it reminds us that this can happen to us. In 2001, multiple airline hijackings happened to us and we witnessed the murderers reciting the shahada and Koranic verses as they prepared to kill innocent civilians in the name of their God. We need to remember how stunned, horrified, and angry we were on that day. Why? Because the people who did it are not finished, and if there is a "next time", it could be just as horrific.
    Why are you so paranoid?

    Evil does walk the Earth, and its most hideous form is that which claims to act in the name of the Islamic god and his partner.
    Yeah, those who justify their evil in the name of God are wrong.

    The ultimate perversion of a God's gift of life and love is the wanton destruction of that gift in His name.
    Exactly.

    Whatever faith you subscribe to, and even if you subscribe to none, you cannot fail to recognize this truth if you are someone who oves goodness and justice. When it comes time to face evil, it is often the common man and woman who become uncommonly courageous. We saw this on Northwest Flight 253. They win the battles and they make the difference.
    I salute them.

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Polog View Post
    Think of how many millions have been killed in the name of economic equality.
    Think of now many have suffered from tooth decay.

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicStar View Post
    But they're wrong if their acts are unjust.
    Many in Islam don't believe the acts are unjust. That's why the acts continue on a near daily basis.


    Yep. Totally.
    Muslims have no connection with islam?


    mmhmm.
    Clever.


    Don't ever forget that.
    Forget What?


    How do know?
    They tell us so.


    Why do you bring this up now? The guy was prosecuted.
    Prosecuted in a Western court of law. We rarely read of any of the enablers and promoters of islamic terrorism being brought to justice by the islamist governments which support and shelter the terrorists. Is that because the enablers and promoters of islamic terrorism are enabled and promoted by islamist governments? That's a rhetorical question, BTW.


    Why are you so paranoid?
    Why are you asking questions that predefine your answer? Why do you think people are paranoid? Is that your paranoia?


    Yeah, those who justify their evil in the name of God are wrong.
    How do you know that? Your gods have done evil things.


    Exactly.
    How do you know that evil is precisely what the gods want?


    I salute them.
    Confronting islamic terrorism is a noble cause.

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Resigned View Post
    Think of now many have suffered from tooth decay.
    The point is that, unless you are Glenn Beck, you don't generally believe that all people who support equality are communists (of the murderous persuasion). You believe that, despite some similar belief characteristics there is something that separates the murders from the liberals. The same thing is true with Islam. The beliefs of the average terrorist differ considerably to the beliefs of the average member on this forum. It not a matter of the strength of the beliefs either. If people here held stronger beliefs, they probably would not attack their fellow countryman in the name of Islam.

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Polog View Post
    The point is that, unless you are Glenn Beck, you don't generally believe that all people who support equality are communists (of the murderous persuasion). You believe that, despite some similar belief characteristics there is something that separates the murders from the liberals. The same thing is true with Islam. The beliefs of the average terrorist differ considerably to the beliefs of the average member on this forum. It not a matter of the strength of the beliefs either. If people here held stronger beliefs, they probably would not attack their fellow countryman in the name of Islam.
    So what does the above have in connection with this thread or for that matter, your earlier post about economic equality?

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    Default Re: UN: Civilian deaths in Afghan war hit record high

    Quote Originally Posted by Resigned View Post
    So what does the above have in connection with this thread or for that matter, your earlier post about economic equality?
    There seems to be an implicit assumption that you believe the true Muslims are terrorists. Your argument is that because terrorists have strong convictions it is natural to consider Islam terrorist religion. The argumentative structure is the same when you take Islam to be a preference for economic equality and degree of faith to be the degree of preference for equality. You readily accept the argumentative structure in one case and (should) reject it in the other.

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