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Thread: In the Spirit of sharing God

  1. #1
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    Question In the Spirit of sharing God

    Greetings all,

    We are stuck, there is no were to turn, no way out, the same God created all of us, we share God.

    Is our God big enough for everyone to share?

    What should we do?

    In the Spirit of sharing the same God.

    Eric

  2. #2
    Administrator Ratatosk's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Salaam,

    Peace, EricH.
    Quote Originally Posted by EricH
    We are stuck, there is no were to turn, no way out, the same God created all of us, we share God.
    It seems to me as if this utterance comes from somewhere deep inside your heart, no? I sympathize with you, although I can not share your plight. Au contraire, bro, I feel that we are absolutely not stuck. If you are refering to finding a 'way out', it implicitly refers that the current situation (whatever that might be) is kinda, well, undesireable, no? Could you perhaps expound on the inner meaning of this koan?
    Quote Originally Posted by EricH
    Is our God big enough for everyone to share?
    I understand that it is merely a question of rethoric on your behalf, but the above quote raises some points that I feel compelled to adress. Disregarding the obvious -- that quantifiable qualities such as 'size' do not apply to the all-encompassing Divine -- , there is another fine point that seems of some importance. I'm refering to the notion of experiencing God as an external attribute (if you're catching my drift), an outside entity that is 'shareable' (a quirky notion, if there ever was one).
    Quote Originally Posted by EricH
    What should we do?
    Hmm.., that's kind of a no-brainer, no? Submit to God. We should let ourselves be guided by Him, not us.
    Quote Originally Posted by EricH
    In the Spirit of sharing the same God.
    To me it's kinda the other way around, it's merely a question of what you see. Or rather, how you see.

    $0.02

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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Greetings and peace Ratatosk,

    I thought that maybe we could try and go beyond the words of our individual faiths and search for meaning.

    When I said that we were stuck with sharing a God I look at it in this way. If you believe in a God other that through the Catholic God, then presumably you would have the belief that your God created everyone including me. Through my belief in the Catholic faith I believe that my God created everyone including you.

    Regardless of what the pair of us may choose to believe.

    God will know beyond a doubt that he created both of us, God has a plan for both of us, can we honestly say that we know God’s plan?

    Hypothetically what could it mean to us if we admit to each other that we share the same God through different beliefs?

    In the spirit of seeking a greater understanding

    Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatosk
    $0.02
    Here is your change $0.01 invest it wisely and don’t squander it on anything sinful. :dancingna

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    Diamond Thunderbolt Vajradhara's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    b'Shalom Eric,


    what if, like me, you don't believe that a God created you? perhaps you meant to address this query to theists only?

    i tend to agree with Ratatosk in this instance, i do not feel "stuck" as you say and, should i feel as if i have become so, i do have the refuge of the Triple Jewel to rest in.

    in any event, i'm interested to read the rest of the responses as they come.

    Meditation brings wisdom, lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what holds you back.

    ~Buddha Shakyamuni



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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Greetings Vajradhara
    what if, like me, you don't believe that a God created you? perhaps you meant to address this query to theists only?
    Feel free to bring in any comments you like, all are welcome maybe the thoughts and intentions of theists and non-theists have more in common than we would like to admit to.
    i tend to agree with Ratatosk in this instance, i do not feel "stuck" as you say
    Maybe I am stuck on my own, maybe there is not the need to believe that the same God created all of us, how very strange.
    in any event, i'm interested to read the rest of the responses as they come
    Me to.

    In the spirit of sharing the same planet

    Eric

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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Salaam and Namaste all,


    just as an aside to the conversation...

    the Buddhist point of view, and thus my point of view, is that sentient beings are unique and have different needs and capacities for spiritual practice. it is our view that religion is not a "one size fits all" sort of thing... it is much too important for an approach like that.

    we feel that this endeavor is quite important and thus each beings individual needs and capacities need to be addressed and marshalled to the task of helping the sentient being move along the path.

    one of the appeals of the Buddhist paradigm, for me, is its' insistence that it is not the only valid Spiritual Refuge and beings can become liberated outside of its' teachings. to that end, the Buddha taught that there are 84,000 different Dharma Doors or Entries to Truth, that each correspond with an individual beings needs and capacities.

    84,000 is a symbolic number in Sanskrit and is meant to connote the sum of all sentient beings in the multiverse.

    Meditation brings wisdom, lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what holds you back.

    ~Buddha Shakyamuni



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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Greetings and peace Vajradhara,

    I understand that you do not believe in a God as such, but I sense your nature is to strive to live in peace with all people

    My reasoning to say that we share the same God was the possibility that we might then acknowledge each other as brothers and sisters. Admitting to each other that we share the same God could also be a step towards world peace. There is not the need for everyone to believe in the same way.

    If we are not able to admit to each other that the same God created all of us, then it seems that religion can be used as a tool for conflict.

    Mankind seems to act towards each other as if there are thousands of gods, that is one god for each of the religions and sects that exist

    Maybe I should have titled the thread sharing thousands of gods.

    In the spirit of sharing human nature

    Eric

  8. #8
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    I think we need to dispel the myths that we worship different Gods.

    29:46..Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

    And I think that we need to hold interfaith gatherings. We need to extend our hands of friendship to eachother and block out those who attack our religions.

    In the spirit of empathy.

  9. #9
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Btw Vaj,
    To whom do buddhist direct their worship?

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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Greetings and peace brother Ansar,

    And I think that we need to hold interfaith gatherings. We need to extend our hands of friendship to eachother and block out those who attack our religions.

    In the spirit of empathy
    The world needs more people like you.

    In the spirit of peace on Earth

    Eric

  11. #11
    Administrator Ratatosk's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Salam,
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-Haq
    Btw Vaj,
    To whom do buddhist direct their worship?
    Sorry yet again, Ansar Al-Haq, I know the query wasn't directed to me personally, but what can I do? I continuously barge in on discussions when you least expect it... *sigh*

    Anyhoo, the concept of direct worship doesn't really apply to the buddhistic mindset. As our dear Quantum Bodhisattva will explain in better words than mine; a buddhist seeks enlightment, not submission (ie submission in the sense that theistic followers understand it).

    Regards,

  12. #12
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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Namaste Ansar and All,


    good conversation thus far.

    as dear Ratatosk has indicated, Buddhists don't really "worship" anything or anyone. it is clear that we have prayers but that sort of begs the question to whom are we praying?

    i apologize upfront... in my own personal style, i tend to want to break open the bones of dogma to reveal the marrow of truth.

    with the context of Buddhism, there are three Vehicles which, for ease of discussion, correspond to relative levels of spiritual awakening. Hinyana, Mahayana and Vajrayana, being that i'm a Vajrayana adherent, my view is most often consonent with theirs.

    ultimately, what it gets down to is this. within the Buddhadharma there are various Gods, Goddesses, DemiGods and all of that sort of thing. the salient point concerning these beings is that they, too, are subject to karma and ultimately, rebirth and they cannot mitigate the karma of any other individual being. being as how the Buddha Dharma is primarly concerned with resolving karma and so forth, there is no reason to appeal to these beings for aid.

    Buddhism really does not relent on the "we reap what we sow" view. there is only one possible way to mitigate the reaping of our karma and that is to put and end to it, in our view, which is one of the aims of the practice.

    when Buddhists offer prayers they are usually, speaking for myself, directed towards a particular Buddha or a Bodhisattva. within the paradigm of the Mahayana and Vajrayana (not so much with the Hinyana) there are certain Buddhas and Bodhisattvas that have stated that they will ensure the next rebirth is positve, into one of the Pure Lands where the practice will be complete without obstruction. this is qualitatively different than Heaven for the Pure Lands are but a resting point for the remainder of the journey, which won't take long from this starting point.

    given that, you will often hear prayers to Avelokiteshavara, the Bodhisattva of Compassion (Chenrezig (Tib), Kwan Yin (Chn)) and to the Buddhas Samtabhadra and Amitihaba, depending on one's Buddha Family and so forth. depending on ones' practice, these are either seen as seperate entities or as Awakened aspects of the unconditioned consciousenss, which is how our emphasis is placed. thus, to borrow a European psychological term, the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas represent archetypes of consciousness and, in the end, it is these archetypes that are being referenced.

    this is a view that is particular to some schools of Buddhism thus, not all Buddhists will agree with my views.

    i suppose that we could go a bit deeper into the whys and wherefores... though i'm not sure if it will add much to the conversation other than more electrons on the screen

    Meditation brings wisdom, lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what holds you back.

    ~Buddha Shakyamuni



  13. #13
    Ansar Al-Haq
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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Thanks Rttsk and Vaj,
    I have another question (and yes Rttsk, you are most welcome to share your knowledge on this one too )

    What are the various forms of worship in Buddhism? Because to a theist like me, worship seems pretty empty when there is no God in it, so I am very interested to know what its like

  14. #14
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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    Namaste Ansar and Salaam.


    well.. we're being a bit loose with the term worship.. so let us keep that in mind through our discussion.

    it's a bit difficult to go into all the various practices that one may encounter as there are quite a few different schools of thought on the matter. having said that, there is a blueprint, if you will, of practice that all schools employ, some to lesser degrees than others. this is the practice of meditation.

    within the traditional Buddhist exegis, meditation is used in two methods.. Vipasanna and Samatha. Calming and Insight (Concentration).

    you will also find chanting of mantras. a mantra is a Sanskrit term which has the meaning of a protective device, so.. when one is chanting a mantra, it is used in the connotation of a mind shield. this is a concentration device that employs both mind and body during the exercise and has a very calming effect.

    study of the Sutras/Suttas and proper intellectual understanding of the underlying philsophical principles which are found in various places througout the Tipitaka.

    depending on ones' school, any of the above, singly or in any combination, may be emphasized.. Buddhism isn't about beliving the right thing, though that can help nor is it about practing in the correct manner, though progress is made more swifly on a trail already blazed. thus, you will find the various schools will tend to pick and choose amongst the various teachings to emphasize.

    the "object" if you will, of the practice is not a deity, as it may be in theistic practice, rather, the idea, such that it is, is to lay bare consciousness and throw off the accrected layers of deluded thought, which is accomplished in various means.

    the raison d'etre, as it were, is one of several things.. rather depending on your Vehicle of practice... to put an end to your deluded cravings, thoughts and ideas, Arhan... to put an end to your cravings, thoughts and ideas with the intention of helping sentient beings do likewise, Bodhisattva.

    it gets a bit more complex from here and, if i may, these represent my views of a fairly complex and diverse system of practice, as such, they are most likely wrong

    Meditation brings wisdom, lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what holds you back.

    ~Buddha Shakyamuni



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    Default Re: In the Spirit of sharing God

    vajradhara,
    long time no chat hope you are doing well....

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