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Thread: Is it haram not to pay tax?

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    Member nas007's Avatar
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    Default Is it haram not to pay tax?

    In the UK all people who earn money have to pay tax. 20% at a lower rate and 40% been higher rate.
    Would it be haram (against Islamic principles) not to pay correct taxes; e.g. if one has a business on the side, which has not been declared, other than say the normal employment which may be PAYE.

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    Moderator shaad_lko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    one should abide by the laws of the country of residence. The Quran asks us to fulfil all contracts, and citizens have a contract with the nation-state... Regardless, not paying taxes will show up Muslims in poor light.
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    The tax is 50% over income above £150 grand. I agree with Shaad'ss entiments that cheating the law goes against the ethos of Islam , morality and humanity. Any money saved by illegal means will not be kosher. There is a difference among the scholars whetehr Muslims should still pay zakaah or whetehr that taxation is enought o cover zakaah as well. My understanding is that it is not obligatory to pay zakaah after such taxation.

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    Moderator shaad_lko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    yes, I agree it wont be - Zakah is a state tax and it can be spent on non-Muslims as well. In any case, Zakah is the minimal amount and beyond that Muslims are encouraged to give Sadaqa..
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    You might like Greece, nobody pays tax there
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MF View Post
    You might like Greece, nobody pays tax there
    MF

    That is again tax evasion and not because Greece is a tax haven.

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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    It is difficult to blame the Greek people for tax evasion. Governments are spending beyond their means on our "credit card". I find it very strange how this economical system is allowed to flourish.

    I think if one was to refuse to pay tax in the UK, one must also accept that you are not entitled to NHS, Public Education etc.

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    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocW View Post
    MF

    That is again tax evasion and not because Greece is a tax haven.
    Yes I know, thats why it fits this thread.
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by mohassan19 View Post
    It is difficult to blame the Greek people for tax evasion. Governments are spending beyond their means on our "credit card". I find it very strange how this economical system is allowed to flourish.

    I think if one was to refuse to pay tax in the UK, one must also accept that you are not entitled to NHS, Public Education etc.
    you say "our" credit card, are you in Greece then? or do you mean we all in Europe pay the price for countries who do not have their finances in order?
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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    Veteran Member Al-Boriqi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by nas007 View Post
    In the UK all people who earn money have to pay tax. 20% at a lower rate and 40% been higher rate.
    Would it be haram (against Islamic principles) not to pay correct taxes; e.g. if one has a business on the side, which has not been declared, other than say the normal employment which may be PAYE.

    Since your in England, then that law is mandatory. Moreover, because you have pledged some form of committal to observe the laws of that land, then you are obliged to obey.

    However, if you are in america, then the constitution made it illegal to pay taxes. Thus your not paying taxes will be a fulfillment of the law of the land and it is the IRS federal reserve system that is ipso facto breaking the law of the land. That of course would be viewed from the angle of how one views the authority of the constitution. If a person views that the constition is above all other forms of regulatory law, then it will concede to what I have just said. If however a person believes that the fundamental laws or crimes outlined in the constitution can be replaced, then the actions of such agencies will be perfectly fine for them, but that would entail a basic nullification of their pledge of allegiance to the flag.

    However in your case, in spite of the tyranny from which it is made legal, you must abide by that tyranny until Allah grants you the blessing to going to a Muslim country whose tyranny does not reach the European tyranny.

    wallahul-alim
    asalamu alaikum
    Islamic Thought In the Modern Era of the Islamic Awakening: Dissemination of Islamic research and studies
    al-Mustaqeem Publications
    “The bonds of Islam will be broken one by one. Every time a bond is undone, the people will cling to the bond that follows. The first of these bonds is rulership (khilaafa) and the last is the prayer (salah).” Reported by Ahmad and Tabarani. Al-Hakim stated that the chain is authentic.

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    Veteran Member Al-Boriqi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by mohassan19 View Post
    It is difficult to blame the Greek people for tax evasion. Governments are spending beyond their means on our "credit card".
    thats is the plan all along. The governments are there to borrow money from banks only to spend it on outrageous un-needed government projects or to send them to foreign countries to only then give the bill to the people of that land who "GAVE NO AUTHORIZATION" to spend or borrow that money from banks in the first place. The purpose is to bring about economic collapse. This has been identified in the plans of the IMF and other banks since the 1950s where they predicted riots and they predicted food rationing. That is why they centralized the power of the worlds food supply to a handful of corporate structures now and why they have waged war against farmers.

    I find it very strange how this economical system is allowed to flourish.
    its allowed to flourish because this very economic system is itself imaginary. It does not exist. The reason why it exists is because the people of all countries have allowed private institutions to become the intermediaries of their finances instead of delegating the power to create money to the power of the state whereby its individuals are under some form of accountability and whereby the common people have somewhat of a greater control or say in the spending of that money. However, because it is in the hands of private institutions who are not answerable to any government and whose power actually surpasses government, then the situtation of the populations of the earth will continue to be factored in the quagmire of the wills of corporate institutions, non-governmental agencies, and the foundations who fund and run them.

    I think if one was to refuse to pay tax in the UK, one must also accept that you are not entitled to NHS, Public Education etc.
    you mean the NHS by which its health services are bent on indreictly killing them off and the public education system that is purposefully formatted to brings forth the intellectual decline of its victims. I would say that such refusal is a double victory if that is the case.
    Islamic Thought In the Modern Era of the Islamic Awakening: Dissemination of Islamic research and studies
    al-Mustaqeem Publications
    “The bonds of Islam will be broken one by one. Every time a bond is undone, the people will cling to the bond that follows. The first of these bonds is rulership (khilaafa) and the last is the prayer (salah).” Reported by Ahmad and Tabarani. Al-Hakim stated that the chain is authentic.

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    Veteran Member Al-Boriqi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MF View Post
    you say "our" credit card, are you in Greece then? or do you mean we all in Europe pay the price for countries who do not have their finances in order?
    Thats interesting because your own countries are also going down the drains as we speak, and not necessarily a fault of your own, and then someone blaming you for your countries leaders will represent the dimwitted reply as you have stated here. The fact that germany has the strongest economy in Europe and will most likely have to bear the brunt of not just Greece, but your sorry butt countries as well.

    I don't mean this to attack you but to demonstrate a point with regard to the naivity of your view on how money actually works.
    One aspect of Greeces collapse is precisely because the power to say or influence monetary policy was signed off by devils in their govenrment to the ellitist of what makes up the European Union and its monetary fiscal fiasco, the Euro. When your country is next to collapse, I of course will be concerned and will as well not blame you for it, but to your leaders who have done so purposefully either because they were
    1. paid off to do so
    2. pressured to do so politically
    3. pressured to do so personally (meaning if they do not do so, then an accident can happen on their life)
    4. or are simply involved in the plan to collapse the economies in order to brings about major gloabl economic reform by which the birth of other things can come into play by whose power is not answerable to any peoples.

    Whichever the case may be, each country is dropping one by one and soon it will be us over here on the other side of the pond and because of hte magnitude of our economic existence for the past several decades, then our fall will be a fall that hurts us as well as others since the bigger they are the harder they fall.

    regards
    Islamic Thought In the Modern Era of the Islamic Awakening: Dissemination of Islamic research and studies
    al-Mustaqeem Publications
    “The bonds of Islam will be broken one by one. Every time a bond is undone, the people will cling to the bond that follows. The first of these bonds is rulership (khilaafa) and the last is the prayer (salah).” Reported by Ahmad and Tabarani. Al-Hakim stated that the chain is authentic.

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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Boriqi View Post

    you mean the NHS by which its health services are bent on indreictly killing them off and the public education system that is purposefully formatted to brings forth the intellectual decline of its victims. I would say that such refusal is a double victory if that is the case.
    No no don't get me wrong Al-Boriqi, I am not a big of the education system, but was only making the point that if you refuse to pay taxes you ought to refuse the services the state provides- including the dumb-ing down institute we call the public education system.

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    Veteran Member MF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Boriqi View Post
    Whichever the case may be, each country is dropping one by one and soon it will be us over here on the other side of the pond and because of hte magnitude of our economic existence for the past several decades, then our fall will be a fall that hurts us as well as others since the bigger they are the harder they fall.
    I think the leaders of Greece failed in enforcing the laws of the tax system besides spending too much. People are more likely to be honest if they feel there’s a reasonable chance that dishonesty will be detected and punished. Sure the leader have blame, and also people for not paying tax (being dishonest). But I understand if everything is corrupt and everybody does it.

    Check this out: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financ...#ixzz1b2RH0cGM

    Anyways I am verry worried about you at the other side of the pound because I fear a collapse of the dollar, I wonder how long can you go on pressing new dollars with a debth so huge the numers don't even fit. If US looses their triple A status... you better buy gold for your dollars. It just can't go on this way.
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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    Veteran Member Al-Boriqi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it haram not to pay tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MF View Post
    I think the leaders of Greece failed in enforcing the laws of the tax system besides spending too much.
    No, i don't think your quite getting it. You may need to suspend the basic precepts of which you may have been taught in any educational institution because the efforts and ideas involved in this matter, and others like it, fall beyond the scope of what is taught generally in school or even in universities precisely because if such institutions were to actually inform the people with regards to how banksters operate, it would reveal the wolf behind the curtain. You may have to read this to get a glimpse of what Im talking about.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=19226

    as well as this 7 minute clipe here
    http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/10/...t-or-austerity

    and this
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCe80hsx-ig

    and this
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSZbq0cfUPE

    And then one of my favorites, is when Max Keiser whips the *** of two bogus elitist who tried to argue that the greek people is the result of the monetary crisis.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A_1AB81KLo part 1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RKaRjDF7j0 part 2

    as for my two cents on it, this is by design because if the banks can get Greece to either default or to borrow, then the IMF will be the likely "aid" to be sent to Greece in which by doing so, will be in effect jumping from the frying pan and into the actual fire itself. There is no success story at all from the IMF, at least not a success story based on the the people who are suppose to be the recipients of the aid of the IMF i.e. the people of that country. Each country they go into, they completely destroy its monetary system and then when that country can't pay them back (which is diabolically the intent) then that country basically signs off its entire country, its resources or any other assets to the IMF.
    People are more likely to be honest if they feel there’s a reasonable chance that dishonesty will be detected and punished. Sure the leader have blame, and also people for not paying tax (being dishonest). But I understand if everything is corrupt and everybody does it.

    Anyways I am verry worried about you at the other side of the pound because I fear a collapse of the dollar, I wonder how long can you go on pressing new dollars with a debth so huge the numers don't even fit.
    Oh, its going to collapse, you can bet your life savings on it. These fascists that we have over here are printing only to prolong the pain of our misery.

    If US looses their triple A status...
    that right here is a deception from the get go. There was never a "triple A" status. What happened was that the ratings agencies like Moodys and fitch and S&P were being paid off by banksters like Goldman Sachs to approve their fraudulent marketing schemes like their speculations and the derivatives market with being approved with triple a status.

    One of the best reads on the topic is provided for here

    The Ratings Agencies, Part I: Experts or Charlatans?

    The Ratings Agencies, Part II: Fiduciary Duty


    you better buy gold for your dollars. It just can't go on this way.
    yes, This is one of the best investments one can go, and with precious metals and real assets. Whoever desires a good future in investments and how to work their money, I do recommend the international forecastor which can be found here

    http://theinternationalforecaster.com/

    regards
    Islamic Thought In the Modern Era of the Islamic Awakening: Dissemination of Islamic research and studies
    al-Mustaqeem Publications
    “The bonds of Islam will be broken one by one. Every time a bond is undone, the people will cling to the bond that follows. The first of these bonds is rulership (khilaafa) and the last is the prayer (salah).” Reported by Ahmad and Tabarani. Al-Hakim stated that the chain is authentic.

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