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Thread: Islam ands human evolution?

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    It is not clear to me from this reading if Muslims are ordained to reject evolutionary theory or accept it.

    May I ask a question?

    Do Muslims accept that evolution is demonstrably taking place at the micro level, or are they forbidden to take flu shots?
    No Muslim has problems with evolution on a micro-level. There are many Muslims that have problems with evolution from a macro-level, and some don't. Some may argue that animals may evolve on the macro level, but humans no.
    "Those who deny the strength of truth,
    God does not give them courage." - Bulleh Shah

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by ihsan View Post
    No Muslim has problems with evolution on a micro-level. There are many Muslims that have problems with evolution from a macro-level, and some don't. Some may argue that animals may evolve on the macro level, but humans no.
    And of course, you are personally tasked with speaking on behalf of all muslims on this issue.

    Did you bang your head once too often at your madrassa?

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    It is not clear to me from this reading if Muslims are ordained to reject evolutionary theory or accept it.

    May I ask a question?

    Do Muslims accept that evolution is demonstrably taking place at the micro level, or are they forbidden to take flu shots?
    in addition to what Ihsan wrote, I'll once again reiterate that the Quran is a moral book of guidance, not a book of science. So, whether evolution is compatible or not with Islam really is a human judgment.
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by shaad_lko View Post
    in addition to what Ihsan wrote, I'll once again reiterate that the Quran is a moral book of guidance, not a book of science. So, whether evolution is compatible or not with Islam really is a human judgment.
    What moral book of guidance will allow for immorality such as slavery?

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Sorry - I seem to have trodden on some open wound between two of your members: which really was not my intent.

    But let me assume that some opinion expressed here reflects the current attitude of Islam: would it be true to say that when science does not attempt to contradict some definitive statement in the Qur'an, Muslims are entitled to make up their own mind on whether the scientific "evidence" is persuasive or not?`

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Sorry - I seem to have trodden on some open wound between two of your members: which really was not my intent.

    But let me assume that some opinion expressed here reflects the current attitude of Islam: would it be true to say that when science does not attempt to contradict some definitive statement in the Qur'an, Muslims are entitled to make up their own mind on whether the scientific "evidence" is persuasive or not?`
    The Quran, when it presents facts, often does it in the context of imagery, as well as metaphor within the established pre-Islamic Arabic literary tradition. There isn't much science in the Quran at all, other than telling us about observable everyday phenomenon that Arabs were quite aware of. For example, the Quran may reference that the honey provides a sweet treat, but also has medicinal value. The fact that honey was used for medicinal purposes was not something brought to light by the Quran, but it was already a well-known phenomenon.

    It is a really new phenomenon that the course of interpreting islam in light of modern scientific facts that the Arabs would have never been unaware of has been trodden. Such interpretations often have no basis in the text and often miss the literary style of the Quran.
    "Those who deny the strength of truth,
    God does not give them courage." - Bulleh Shah

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Sorry - I seem to have trodden on some open wound between two of your members: which really was not my intent.

    But let me assume that some opinion expressed here reflects the current attitude of Islam: would it be true to say that when science does not attempt to contradict some definitive statement in the Qur'an, Muslims are entitled to make up their own mind on whether the scientific "evidence" is persuasive or not?`
    Yes that is true - as Ihsan pointed out science cannot contradict the Quran because the latter is not scientific in purport at all - the latter often uses imagery (common in the Arabic language) which is confused for science by some modernist interpreters, obviously with a righteous urge to justify the Quran as being scientific, little realizing that they are doing disservice to a book primarily meant for moral teaching.
    Nine things the Lord has commanded me: Fear of God in private and in public; Justness, whether in anger or in calmness; Moderation in both poverty and affluence; That I should join hands with those who break away from me; And give to those who deprive me; And forgive those who wrong me; And that my silence should be meditation; And my words remembrance of God; And my vision keen observation.- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Sorry - I seem to have trodden on some open wound between two of your members: which really was not my intent.

    But let me assume that some opinion expressed here reflects the current attitude of Islam: would it be true to say that when science does not attempt to contradict some definitive statement in the Qur'an, Muslims are entitled to make up their own mind on whether the scientific "evidence" is persuasive or not?`
    I'll recommend reading "Even Angel's Ask" it puts all of these issues in perspective from Islamic point of view. Forum is not the best place to learn complex topics, it takes quite a reading to know them in detail. The book is available online as ebook.

    As for the evolution, there is not much in Quran that goes against the evolution even if taken literally. The question is are there something that goes against science, that depends how one view science. Belief in angels can be called against science, but is it?

    Here is a more traditional response for evolution from Islamic perspective, which should make it more clear:
    Last edited by hyd; 7th October 2011 at 20:58.

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Thank for the link, hyd.

    On a different forum, the young earth creationists seemed to be claiming that even Muslims are ordained to believe that evolutionary theory is at odds with theology.

    It is refreshing to see a counter point, that if evolution occurred, then it was because Allah was the evolver. That is quite neat.

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by shaad_lko View Post
    Yes that is true - as Ihsan pointed out science cannot contradict the Quran because the latter is not scientific in purport at all - the latter often uses imagery (common in the Arabic language) which is confused for science by some modernist interpreters, obviously with a righteous urge to justify the Quran as being scientific, little realizing that they are doing disservice to a book primarily meant for moral teaching.
    Science contradicts the koran on virtually all matters of science. That’s because on virtually all matters of science the koran is wrong. We’re continually faced by claims from islamists that science is only now proving miraculous scientific knowledge “revealed” in the koran.

    It's even a function of islamist polemics to portray the study of hadith (rumor, speculation and hearsay), as "science". It's a cynical ploy of attempting to add the credibility of the scientific method – and the consensus it brings – to tales, fables and "sayings" allegedly made by islamist historical characters. Science relies on evidence, testing, falsifying, repeatable results to interpret data. Those elements are not available in the case of hearsay evidence with admittedly varying levels of claimed authenticity.

    Jinn, a geocentric universe, a flat earth are just some of the of the “scientific hermeneutic” absurdities supported by built in “loopholes” that islmist apologists insert for the purpose of getting away with the many incompatibilities between the koran and modern science. Where the “scientific miracles” of the koran generally depend on creative flights of re-interpretive fancy, the gross scientific errors of the koran are expressed in clear and direct language. They are so obvious, that islamist apologists have been forced to create the “loophole” of “allegorical language” in the attempt to escape them.

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Is it your position that the Qur'an ought to discuss scientific theory? Or that it does actually contain some scientific "facts"?

    If the latter, perhaps you could show me some verses in the Qur'an that give scientific theories which are demonstrably false?

    Thanks

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    yw

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Is it your position that the Qur'an ought to discuss scientific theory? Or that it does actually contain some scientific "facts"?

    If the latter, perhaps you could show me some verses in the Qur'an that give scientific theories which are demonstrably false?

    Thanks
    If that is for Resigned, just to make it clear he is not muslim. Anything doesn't fit his preconceived notions about muslims and islam from muslims, he starts to argue.

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    I should have made it more clear that my post was addressed to Resigned.

    He clearly has no truck for anything Islamic. I just wondered if he had any actual verses to show us that back up such strong opinions.

    Being agnostic myself, I am honor bound to examine any premise presented to me, in order that it can be judged in the light of all available evidence, and, as is the custom of those of the agnostic persuasion, with logic and reason.

    I have Christian correspondents who claim that their scripture makes various scientific claims. On close inspection, it has made no such thing.

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by hyd View Post
    yw


    If that is for Resigned, just to make it clear he is not muslim. Anything doesn't fit his preconceived notions about muslims and islam from muslims, he starts to argue.
    You have that wrong. Anyone who questions muslims' politico-religious ideology is tagged with denigrating labels designed to protect muslims' tender sensibilities.

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    Default Re: Islam ands human evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Is it your position that the Qur'an ought to discuss scientific theory? Or that it does actually contain some scientific "facts"?

    If the latter, perhaps you could show me some verses in the Qur'an that give scientific theories which are demonstrably false?

    Thanks
    I can give you an error, but it doesn't depend on the interpretation of evolution (because that is not open for interpretation unlike hyd claims) but it depends on the interpretation of the creation of Adan and Eve.

    Some muslims interpret the creation of Adam in such a way that he canot have parents, in that case evolution theory conflicts with that because no matter if there is a tree or a bush of life, humans fit in there with other taxa above them, Adam and Eve had parents. And so did Jesus by the way.

    I already mentioned it at the beginning at this thread by the way so perhaps you didn't miss it.
    “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

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