Understanding Islam Community http://forums.understanding-islam.com/ Discuss Islam with present day Muslim intellectuals at our friendly community forums. Inter-Faith dialogue welcome. en Wed, 16 May 2012 23:04:45 GMT vBulletin 60 http://forums.understanding-islam.com/images/misc/rss.png Understanding Islam Community http://forums.understanding-islam.com/ Vit D,Sunshine Hormone. http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11693-Vit-D-Sunshine-Hormone&goto=newpost Tue, 15 May 2012 17:27:45 GMT Why is this knowledge not widely spread?Such a simple way of avoiding so many serious illnesses! http://youtu.be/TQ-qekFoi-o Why is this knowledge not widely spread?Such a simple way of avoiding so many serious illnesses!



http://youtu.be/TQ-qekFoi-o ]]> Our Planet alan http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11693-Vit-D-Sunshine-Hormone Understanding Abrogation http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11687-Understanding-Abrogation&goto=newpost Mon, 14 May 2012 11:29:59 GMT Salam. I'd just like to ask some questions about a concept that kind of confuses me.

1. a) Does it only refer to laws mentioned in the Qur'an? i.e. Law A is revealed then, after some time, due to a certain context, Law B is revealed and abrogates Law A.
1. b) Does that make Law A irrelevant and no longer applicable?

2. a) Does it apply to any two, or more, verses that seem contradictory?
2. b) For example, many non-Muslims like to say the good verses are abrogated by the "bad" ones. Is this true? Are verses, with so much meaning, like "no compulsion in religion" (2:256) abrogated? I think Ibn Kathir seems to think 2:256 is abrogated.

3) If a verse is abrogated, does that mean it's simply no longer part of Islam?
4) Is abrogation a poor choice of wording? It seems to imply that the abrogated verse no longer serves any purpose. Wouldn't substituted be better, meaning that the "abrogated" verse still has some meaning?

Thanks, in advance. ]]> SilverFox http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11687-Understanding-Abrogation logical question http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11686-logical-question&goto=newpost Sun, 13 May 2012 21:08:37 GMT Harry, a fresh computer graduate from a world class University, goes for an interview in a software company.

The interviewer is James, a grubby old man. And the first question he asks Harry is, "Are you good at logic?"

"Of course," replies Harry.

"Let me test you," replies James.

"Two men come down a chimney. One comes with a clean face and the other comes out with a dirty face. Which one washes his face?"

Harry stares at James. "Is that a test in Logic?" James nods.

"The one with the dirty face washes his face," he answers wearily.

"Wrong. The one with the clean face washes his face. Examine the simple logic. The one with the dirty face looks at the one with the clean face and thinks his face is clean. The one with the clean face looks at the one with the dirty face and thinks his face is dirty. So, the one with the clean face washes his face."

"Hmm. I never thought of that," says Harry. "Give me another test."

James again holds up two fingers, "Two men come down a chimney. One comes out with a clean face and the other comes out with a dirty face. Which one washes his face?"

"We have already established that. The one with the clean face washes his face."

"Wrong. Each one washes his face. Examine the simple logic. The one with the dirty face looks at the one with the clean face and thinks his face is clean. The one with the clean face looks at the one with the dirty face and thinks his face is dirty. So, the one with the clean face washes his face. When the one with the dirty face sees the one with the clean face washing his face, he also washes his face. So each one washes his face"

"I didn't think of that!" says Harry. "It's shocking to me that I could make an error in logic. Test me again!"

James holds up two fingers, "Two men come down a chimney. One comes out with a clean face and the other comes out with a dirty face. Which one washes his face?"

"Each one washes his face."

"Wrong. Neither one washes his face. Examine the simple logic. The one with the dirty face looks at the one with the clean face and thinks his face is clean. The one with the clean face looks at the one with the dirty face and thinks his face is dirty. But when the one with clean face sees that the one with the dirty face doesn't wash his face, he also doesn't wash his face So neither one washes his face."

Harry is desperate. "I am qualified for this job. Please give me one more test!"

He groans when James lifts his two fingers, "Two men come down a chimney. One comes out with a clean face and the other comes out with a dirty face. Which one washes his face?"

"Neither one washes his face"

"Wrong. Do you now see, Harry, why programming knowledge is insufficient for this job? Tell me, how is it possible for two men to come down the same chimney, and for one to come out with a clean face and the other with a dirty face? Don't you see...?" ]]> General Conversations DocW http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11686-logical-question Suger,the bitter truth. http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11685-Suger-the-bitter-truth&goto=newpost Sun, 13 May 2012 19:33:22 GMT Shocking adulteration of our food. http://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM Shocking adulteration of our food.

http://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM ]]> Our Planet alan http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11685-Suger-the-bitter-truth Beautiful *must watch lecture* http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11684-Beautiful-*must-watch-lecture*&goto=newpost Sun, 13 May 2012 17:23:35 GMT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bMK7vkF6_c ]]> hyd http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11684-Beautiful-*must-watch-lecture* Is the Tree of life pagan? http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11681-Is-the-Tree-of-life-pagan&goto=newpost Sun, 13 May 2012 08:58:16 GMT The tree of life seems to be*universal through out history, so is it pagan and what are the Muslim view of it?* http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life* * The tree of life seems to be*universal through out history, so is it pagan and what are the Muslim view of it?*

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life*

* ]]> Interfaith Dialogue Moonlight http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11681-Is-the-Tree-of-life-pagan Jesus(as) according to Quran and ahadith. http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11680-Jesus(as)-according-to-Quran-and-ahadith&goto=newpost Sun, 13 May 2012 08:14:05 GMT assalam o alaikum members of this board, I would like to discuss whether or not Jesus(as) died or was he taken up to heavens. There are many verses in Quran and also ahadith indicating His death. But no where does it say that He was taken up bodily alive. Please shed some light on this issue.... assalam o alaikum members of this board,
I would like to discuss whether or not Jesus(as) died or was he taken up to heavens. There are many verses in Quran and also ahadith indicating His death. But no where does it say that He was taken up bodily alive. Please shed some light on this issue. Thanks. ]]> Interfaith Dialogue Mr.Popat http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11680-Jesus(as)-according-to-Quran-and-ahadith Judge in grooming case says gang targeted victims by religion http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11679-Judge-in-grooming-case-says-gang-targeted-victims-by-religion&goto=newpost Sat, 12 May 2012 22:09:44 GMT I first heard of these grooming cases perhaps a year or so ago. Back then, it was widely known that men from the "Asian" community would target young white girls. It's an unfortunate example of racial and religious hatred manifesting into actual crimes.

Thankfully, (and quite out of character) one Pakistani community leader has bravely spoken out and highlighted the attitudes some in the Pakistani community have for whites/non-Muslims that has resulted in this and numerous other "grooming" cases.

Quote:
A judge today said nine men preyed on white girls as young as 13 for sex 'because they were not part of your community or religion' as he jailed them for a total of 77 years.
Also, apparently, some believe the police ignored the problem for fear of being branded racist for going after an Asian pedophilia gang:

Quote:
Yesterday senior politicians clashed over the case – with one former Labour MP claiming police and social workers ignored complaints because they were ‘petrified of being called racist’.

With experts on paedophilia insisting street grooming by Muslim men was a real problem, the judge made it clear he believed religion was a factor.
It's also interesting that some still want to ignore the problem because telling the truth could help those mean "right-wingers":

Quote:
Keith Vaz, the Labour chairman of the home affairs select committee, yesterday told the Today programme that highlighting the Pakistani origin of all but one of the gang risked giving ammunition to the far-Right.
However:

Quote:
But Martin Narey, former chief executive of children’s charity Barnardo’s, told the programme there was a ‘real problem’ which had to be confronted.

‘There is very troubling evidence that Asians are overwhelmingly represented in prosecutions for such offences,’ he said. Mr Narey added that ‘vulnerable girls on the street at night are generally white rather than more strictly-parented Asian girls’.

He was backed by Ann Cryer, a former Labour MP in Keighley, West Yorkshire. She said: ‘This is an absolute scandal.

They (the police and CPS) were petrified of being called racist and so reverted to the default of political correctness. They had a greater fear of being perceived in that light than in dealing with the issues in front of them.’
Now it looks like the police are looking for forty more men - and there's believed to be 47 more victims:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-arrests.html

I also read that one of fathers of the victims has now become a BNP member. Makes you wonder if any more Anders Breiviks have been created by this racist pedophile gang. ]]> Our Planet ProphetofTolerance http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11679-Judge-in-grooming-case-says-gang-targeted-victims-by-religion Yoga cures disabled man http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11678-Yoga-cures-disabled-man&goto=newpost Sat, 12 May 2012 10:00:26 GMT Truly amazing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU0BzZl Truly amazing

]]> Multimedia Moonlight http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11678-Yoga-cures-disabled-man Does the Koran restrict relations to within marriage? http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11676-Does-the-Koran-restrict-relations-to-within-marriage&goto=newpost Fri, 11 May 2012 16:57:50 GMT I've discussed with a Muslim before who rejected Muslim concubinage claiming that relations with female servants not married to the Muslim male are prohibited due to the Koran restricting relations between husbands and wives.

Therefore, I'm curious..

1) Do you agree with the Muslim that concubinage contradicts the Koran and is therefore un-Islamic?

2) Is this a clear contradiction within Islam? How can you have concubinage if the Koran restricts relations to within marriage? ]]> ProphetofTolerance http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11676-Does-the-Koran-restrict-relations-to-within-marriage Is the bible unique? http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11675-Is-the-bible-unique&goto=newpost Fri, 11 May 2012 09:49:43 GMT Today I saw my mum haven a new watchtower magazine called "what makes the bible unique?"

I had a little laugh inside as I know alot about the book then my mum or the followers of the watchtowers and it's pretty sad how this cult group can manipulate millions of people around the world.

So what makes the bible unique?
Other then errors and contradiction, it's a book of confusion.

In the Gnostic world we can make the bible have a Goddess called Sophia

"The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.
Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth."
Proverbs 8:22-23

But wisdom (Sophia) is proved right by all her children." Luke 7:35

Through out Proverbs she urges all readers to attain her and she will give her children everlasting life for She is a tree of life to those who embrace her.

At the end of Matthew we see Jesus saying to his followers to baptize everyone in the name of the Father the Son and Holy Spirit. That holy Spirit is Sophia the Mother.

Here's a clever verse I really liked when I was in the a Gnostic world

'Honor your father and mother'
20:5 Exodus

"And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven."
Matthew 25:9

With logic we can see that Jesus is saying we have a divine Mother and a divine Father.*

You can read more on this Goddess here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_%28wisdom%29

Now the watchtower:
although they do worship the unseen and not a Christ worshipper I'm pretty proud with them. But they have mixed truth with falsehood together which contradicts the bible.

They say Jesus rose as a spirit being (an angel) we can already see the error there because Hebrews says that no angel is ever called a son of God. The reason behind the spirit being going to heaven is from paul when he said:

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor.15: 50

And because Jesus went to heaven he must of been a spirit right? But even Paul made a huge error because we all know that Elijah and Enoch had ascended to heaven fully flesh and blood (2 King 2:11; Heb 11:5)
(my mum and I had this debate but she's so brainwashed she can't see the facts)

hence Luke 24:39-40 shows that he was fully human before he went into heaven.

What we are seeing is people are trying to put the dots together to build a concept of what the bible is trying to tell them but it's impossable because the bible keeps changing and people are*contradicting themselves and the bible.

We have over 100 cults in*christianity*who claim to have the truth and we have dozens of English bible versons we don't even know which one is the true verson.*

The bible is infact*unique, but in a very bad way...**

Here's 2 links that I found intresting which you might like.

The gospel roots of Christian pantheism:

*http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/eng_rat.htm

An Overview of Gnosticism and the Bible:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/gnosticism.htm** ]]> Interfaith Dialogue Moonlight http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11675-Is-the-bible-unique U.S. Military Taught Officers: Use ‘Hiroshima’ Tactics for ‘Total War’ on Islam http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11674-U-S-Military-Taught-Officers-Use-‘Hiroshima’-Tactics-for-‘Total-War’-on-Islam&goto=newpost Thu, 10 May 2012 17:31:32 GMT The U.S. military taught its future leaders that a “total war” against the world’s 1.4 billion Muslims would be necessary to protect America from Islamic terrorists, according to documents obtained by Danger Room. Among the options considered for that conflict: using the lessons of “Hiroshima” to... The U.S. military taught its future leaders that a “total war” against the world’s 1.4 billion Muslims would be necessary to protect America from Islamic terrorists, according to documents obtained by Danger Room. Among the options considered for that conflict: using the lessons of “Hiroshima” to wipe out whole cities at once, targeting the “civilian population wherever necessary.”

Full article: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012...all/1?pid=1200 ]]> Our Planet hyd http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11674-U-S-Military-Taught-Officers-Use-‘Hiroshima’-Tactics-for-‘Total-War’-on-Islam Prophet Musa(Pbuh), Pharo and Asiya (May Allah(swt) place her in Fudose) http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11672-Prophet-Musa(Pbuh)-Pharo-and-Asiya-(May-Allah(swt)-place-her-in-Fudose)&goto=newpost Wed, 09 May 2012 22:07:36 GMT I'm a little confuse when Prophet Musa(pbuh) mother sent her son on the river Nile and was pick up by Pharos wife Asiya, she convince Pharo to keep him as they did not have any children.
But I thought they had one son who later became the Pharo -the archenemy of Phophet Musa

What is the truth behinid all this ?
Can someone explain exactly what happened ? ]]> Islamic Discussions Peace http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11672-Prophet-Musa(Pbuh)-Pharo-and-Asiya-(May-Allah(swt)-place-her-in-Fudose) Debate: Robert Spencer and Nadir Ahmed http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11671-Debate-Robert-Spencer-and-Nadir-Ahmed&goto=newpost Wed, 09 May 2012 21:54:46 GMT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tia7H...layer_embedded

Robert Spencer and Nadir Ahmed debated whether Islam allows rape of captive slave women and whether Islam promotes violence.

I'm not fully finished watching the debate. The second part of the debate begins at around the 50 minute mark.

I am curious to hear your thoughts on the performance of the two debaters.

For the first part of the debate, whether Islam allows rape of captive women, Spencer mentions the story of Kinana's wife whose husband (Kinana) and father were killed by Muhammad's forces. Muhammad actually had personally ordered Kinana's brutal murder. Later, Muhammad took Kinana's wife back to his tent and "consummated" their marriage just hours after the killing of her husband and father to Muhammad's forces, while a companion of Muhammad's stood guard in fear Kinana's wife would assault Muhammad in his sleep. Needless to say, one must ask how any woman would agree to have s.ex with a man hours after her husband and father were killed by him; so the affair must have been rape.

Another point Spencer raises is the hadith discussing coitus interruptus; Muhammad's men ask him if coitus interruptus is permitted with the captive women they have taken. Muhammad doesn't respond that it's not permitted to have relations with slave women; rather, he allows the relations and prohibits coitus interruptus deeming it unnecessary.

For the second part of the debate, whether Islam promotes violence, Nadir argues the Koran, specifically V9:29, must be understood based on its historical context. V9:29 calls on Muslims to fight people of the book until they pay a tax and feel themselves humiliated. Nadir claims the verse was revealed to prevent a genocide against Jews by Christians. Unfortunately, Spencer doesn't seem to press Nadir which genocide or intended genocide he's referring to. And, more than that, why the Koran would call for fighting against "people of the book" - Jews, Sabians, and Christians, rather than just Christians Nadir claims are committing genocide (and why the verse would call for war against Jews if the verse is intended to save Jews).

Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the debate, debaters and issues discussed: Does Islam permit rape with slave women and does Islam teach violence against unbelievers? ]]> Islamic Discussions ProphetofTolerance http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11671-Debate-Robert-Spencer-and-Nadir-Ahmed Shakespearean Plays have JINN??? http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11670-Shakespearean-Plays-have-JINN&goto=newpost Wed, 09 May 2012 01:57:40 GMT I've been reading a lot of Shakespeare this year in high school. In Macbeth they have a lot of black magic going on and they say that the name of the play itself is haunted so and its bad luck to say it in theaters because strange and evil things start to happen. anyway in "the tempest" they talk about spirits and humans controlling them. one of the characters in the book is Ariel who i think is a jinn. i haven't found anything on Google about this and i am wondering if the jinn helped people in the 1600s. also is Ariel a jinn? here's a description I found on him on sparknotes "Ariel Prospero’s spirit helper, a powerful supernatural being whom Prospero controls completely. Rescued by Prospero from a long imprisonment (within a tree) at the hands of the witch Sycorax, Ariel is Prospero’s servant until Prospero decides to release him. He is mischievous and ubiquitous, able to traverse the length of the island in an instant and change shapes at will. Ariel carries out virtually every task Prospero needs accomplished in the play." ]]> General Conversations taha_hafeez http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?11670-Shakespearean-Plays-have-JINN