what are the heavens

[understanding the truth]

helo/salaam to all
as my username suggests, i am not doubting but rather i would like to understan certain aspects of the quran.
i have come across many sites/blogs/videos/people who have confronted me with certain verses of the quran to which i feel i am not educated enough to respond.
the verses are those relating to the heavens:

(this was asked by another user but was not completley answered)

why does the quran depict the sky as solid, strangely as people believed it was back then?

According to Allah he has made the sky a canopy:

PICKTHAL: Allah it is Who appointed for you the earth for a dwelling-place and the sky for a canopy

We are also asked by Allah- who is the one who created the sky as a canopy indicating the people back then were already aware of its solid state:

002.022
PICKTHAL: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy

050.006 Have they not then observed the sky above them, how We have constructed it and beautified it, and how there are no rifts therein?

the sky will have rifts come judgement day:

069.016
And the sky will be rent asunder, for it will that Day be flimsy,

And the sky will tear apart along with the clouds:

025.025
A day when the heaven with the clouds will be rent asunder and the angels will be sent down, a grand descent.

how will the solid sky become flimsy on day of judgement:

070.008
YUSUFALI: The Day that the sky will be like molten brass,

It will melt from solid state to liquid

the sky must be soild if it can fall and kill people on earth:

Seest thou not that Allah has made subject to you (men) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the sky from failing on the earth except by His leave: for Allah is Most Kind and Most Merciful to man. S. 22:65


Ibn Kathir comments:


If He willed, He could give the sky permission to fall on the earth, and whoever is in it would killed, but by His kindness, mercy, power, He withholds the heaven from falling on earth, except by His leave..."


Allah could also drop a piece of the sky on the unbelievers if he wished:

052.044
YUSUFALI: Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them)

to summarize

1.It says we can observe the sky and see there are no cracks in it.
2.Allah could let the sky or just a piece fall on earth and kill humans if he willed.
3.Allah questions the readers; who has created the sky as a canopy? Indicating they are aware the sky is protecting them(solid canopy).
4.The sky will crack on judgement day to allow angels to descent.
5.It will also melt from its solid state into a liquid one


The general answers to these questions explained that the heavens reffered to the protective properties of the atmosphere etc, which cannot be disputed.
but what made me confused was that the term heaven could not only mean the atmospheres since the quran also states

''So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.'' 041.012


This makes it clear that the lower heaven/the first heaven has to be refering to the entire universe, yet many muslims refer it to being the troposphere which it does not refer to.
so the dilema we are left with is:
The 1st heaven is the entire universe, but the heaven is also a canopy (which refers to it also being prevented from falling on to people.)

so in essence the quran could not only refer to the heaven as the sky because the quran also refers to the heavens as being filled with celestial bodies such as the moon stars planets and the sun.
as we know, rain does not fall from space. and the heavens itself are not solid but the quran made mention of it not requiring pillars for support and its ability to fall. The quran also makes mention of the stars falling on the day of qiyamah
81:2 And when the stars fall/scatter

and why doesn't the quran directly say that the earth is a ball shape. scholars are always trying to bend words as much as possible to make it sound that way. I do realise that the quran is not a book of science but Allah all Mighty being so powerful won't make a single mastake in any category.

Brothers/sisters please help me to slove these issues since many things about my life have been bothering me - including such religious issues.
i have gone into a deppresion about my life and destiny. i am terribley confused.

a detailed answer will change a life
jazakallah

[understanding the truth]

can anyone out there reply please

[ihsan]

There is no reason to get upset Brother. The issues you have raised are actually features of Quranic imagery. What you have come across on the internet are people claiming these verses as scientific descriptions, when in fact, they are not. It is a vast ignorance of the Quranic Arabic that amkes people assert such things. What these verse constitute are examples of Arabic literary technique. The Quran is employing a metaphor, not a technical description in these verses. The metaphors may be common to other verses, or unique.

In verses similar to the following:


Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy

As Neal Robinson points out, When the Quran refers to the heavens as a canopy, the Quran is comparing the sky one sees above to the hospitable environment that an Arab would enjoy after a long journey in the burning hot sun, when he takes rest under the canopy of a tent. The sun is likened to the brilliant lamp that hangs from the center of the roof of a tent providing the Arab with soothing light. The earth, in these specific verses, is compared to a carpet that a host would spread out for the guest to sit on. The verses are usually translated, and more accurately, as the earth being 'spread out'. The word 'carpet' is suppressed, which is a common feature of the pre-islamic Arabic. The Quran is pointing out that Allah is like the generous host that provides a desert traveller with shelter through his tent as well as comfort and food in this world, during a long journey. One must remember that to the Arabs, honoring a guest is the highest honor and further, to appreciate acts of this kind were the ultimate sign of nobility. How ungrateful it is for man to act ungrateful and reject these favors of the host?

Further, the imagery conveys another reality. Tents are folded up by beduoin dwellers as they move on to their next life. Like a tent, the earth and heavens too will be folded up to usher in a new existence. There is nothing that depicts temporality better than the tent-life of a beduoin. Further, the Quran says that the canopy that we see as strong will be ripped apart like a tent in the midst of strong winds.


The Day that the sky will be like molten brass

This is a depiction of how hell will be raging on the Day of Judgement. Molten brass is fiery red and orange, and the Quran is stating that the hell will be raging, such that the sky will reflect the fiery nature of hell. It will be colored an extreme red, so imagine the very state of Hell itself. In other verses, the Quran likens the sky to being stripped, like the skin of a camel, revealing the very red nature of the meat that has been exposed.


Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them)

The sky falling refers to calamites that may strike from abaove, such as meteor showers and various other calamities that originate from the skies. The imagery is that of a building collapsing piece by piece upon the inhabitants.

The metaphors employed are suited to the context. Take surah Mulk for example. This surah itself revolves around the theme of people who reject Allah, and who are operating under the delusion that the fight they are waging against the Messenger, which is essentially a fight against the Great King, will be won by them. Allah states that seven heavens were created, one upon the other, demonstrating the vast enormity of the kingdom of the Mighty. It then goes on to tell man to look and see if one can find any cracks or fissures. The imagery being painted is that of an army trying to look at a way to attack the kingdom of the most Glorious King, but they are useless in finding a way, because the kingdom itself is from the Hands of the Creator of the heavens and earth itself. There are two elements being depicted, and that is the vastness of the kingdom of the heavens, as well as the fortified nature of all the heavens. The lowest heaven is lit by stars, which are depicted like citadels. The Quran doesn't even draw attention to the efforts of man to scale the kingdom, it goes right to the djins, who are pelted with flames from angels, like the flames tossed from catapults. The idea is that let alone the human beings not even finding a hole in the kingdom to begin an assault, even the djinns, who are strong and mighty and can fly are useless in penetrating the kingdom of God.

The Quran then draws a picture of the army defeated, being cast into the prison of hell, which roars like a lion in a cage ready to feed on it's victims. The angels, who are the armies of God and the loyal servants are then seen tossing the defeated victims into the heel that is like a lion, ready to pounce on them. Throughout that whole surah, there is imagery of armies and battles and the springs that men need to keep the army from thrist.


and why doesn't the quran directly say that the earth is a ball shape.

The shape of the earth has no relevance to the Arab, and further, what would that do for an Arab in generating gratitude. If the imagery is that of a generous host, spreading a carpet out for you to sit on, as well as provide you shelter with a canopy, known as the sky, then this is way more effective at generating gratitude and higher ideas, does it not? The earth being a ball is rather quite drab, don't you think, as far as it concerns an emotional and even intellectual appeal.


scholars are always trying to bend words as much as possible to make it sound that way. I do realise that the quran is not a book of science but Allah all Mighty being so powerful won't make a single mastake in any category.

It isn't a science book, so then what is the issue. Just don;t listen to the erronsous interpretations and try and appreciate the Quran more from a literary perspective. To do that, I suggest you try and read translations of pre-Islamic poems, where the use of imagery was heavy for Arabs. Eyes are compared to ostrich eggs, skin is described like milk. The pre-islamic Arabic language was heavy in the usage of imagery. You can further read articles by Mustanir Mir, or the tafseer by Amin AHsan Islahi, and works by Neal Robinson in his Discovering the Quran for such wealth of information.

[xrillionaire]

great answer Ihsan :thumbscoo

[naderM]

besides the imagery in those verses, there is also absolutely no problem in interpreting any of those verses literally.

the arabic for SKY in those verses is al-sama' which means anything that is above something else or "the above", and it is the primary meaning of this word in the Quran. so the meaning depends on context.
For example when the context points to rain coming down from the sky, sama' is accurately rendered CLOUDS by Shakir 2:19,2:164,6:99,11:44,15:22,16:10,20:53,22:63 etc. etc, when the context points to clouds moving around above us, sama' is rendered SKY in 30:48, and in verses speaking about stars being in the sama' such as 15:16 it CANNOT be rendered as "sky" because stars are NOT in the atmosphere.
it follows that sama' must be rendered as universe, or space in such verses..i hope we get some new translations from scratch soon, with real experts in arabic and the quranic style.

[justavisitor]

069.016
And the sky will be rent asunder

but how can the sky or the atmosphere tear appart when it is nothing but air?

[ihsan]

but how can the sky or the atmosphere tear appart when it is nothing but air?

1. The Quran is speaking about the heavens, including the stars, not just the atmosphere. The essential point being conveyed is that the order of the heavens will be shattered, leading to a state of chaos, including the stars being scattered like pearls on a necklace that has just been torn. The Holy Book refers to how precise the revolution of the stars are, and ancient civilizations were very well aware of this precision, being led by them when they travelled by ship and in the desert. The Day of Judgement won't just concern the earth, but the whole heavens and further, even heavenly bodies, that many ancient civilizations use to worship, because of their power and size, will be rendered powerless, bowing to the power of the One, the Irresistable.

2.

How can we comprehend such an event? This is where the intellect of a human falls short and iman, often translated as belief, takes over. It is where we bow down to the revelation of a Prophet, for such facts can only be known by revelation. Knowledge is based upon concrete experience, and such an experience has never happened in the context of human life. As Moiz Amjad says, a unicorn, mythical and never experienced by human life, can only be picturized as a horse with a horn, and the wings of a bird. In the same manner, human language is based upon what we, as human beings have experienced in life. It cannot step beyond that. As soon as I say to you the word 'cat', the first thing that comes to your mind is the picture of that creature you have already experienced of as a cat.

And example of the Quran demonstrates the point:

Joseph (AS) had a dream of the stars and moon bowing down before him. How can we picture such a thing? The true meaning of the dream happened only when Joseph actually experienced the event of his father, mother and brothers bowing down before him. He did have an idea of what was to happen when he experienced the dream, but it's full comprehension by Joseph was only realized when the event actually happened.

3.

The type of verses which relate to the unseen are what the the Quran refers to as a mutashaabihat, often translated as allegorical. This word is the same word used in the context of the dream of Joseph. The Quran has used language to describe an unseen phenomenon so that the human mind can form a picture that conveys the essential reality, but the true understanding of that event will only be ascertained when the event is experienced.

4.

Here is another example to convey my point in the context of modern knowledge:

Science posits many different theories regarding the universe, among them, the idea of a black-hole. Again, how can the mind comprehend such a thing, when the universe is 'air'? Our picture of a black-hole is based solely upon what our human experiences are. In string-theory, the universe, as one among an infintie number of universes running parallel to each other, with each universe likened to a sheet. How can such a thing be possible when the universe is air?

5. None of this should be construed with the idea that religion is against intellect, as the analogy of science demonstrates. The idea of the Day of Judgement is, in fact, a product of sound intellect, as the Quran asserts in many different places.


How do you deny Allah and you were dead and He gave you life? Again He will cause you to die and again bring you to life, then you shall be brought back to Him.
He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth, and He directed Himself to the heaven, so He made them complete seven heavens, and He knows all things.

The denial of God in this verse is actually referring to the denial of the Hereafter. What is so strange about God resurrecting man for a second time, when he created man the first time out of nothing? As Islahi points out, The Quran has first raised the possibility that God can raise man, and then goes on with the argument, by saying it is in fact a necessity. He has granted men so many things in the earth, reflecting his attribute of providence, and further has created seven heavens, one above the other, reflecting his attribute of Power. Further, the very creation testifies to his knowledge of everything. It goes against the attributes of God's providence, power and knowledge that he would not call human beings to account.

There was a point in time that a human being was without life, and if it weren't for the fact that we existed, the human being could have never posited by mind alone the existence of an insect or fly. Man has and continues to experience life, so what is so difficult in understanding the Day of Judgement will happen, considering the very attributes of God must manifest it.

[naderM]

the various verses speaking of the cataclysms that will occur on JDay are meant to describe man's total helplesness on such a day, with nowhere to run or hide.
Like the sheltering mountains will be pulverised taking away all hiding places and protection, like the earth will be shaken with an awesome shaking taking away its often emphasized comfortable nature of a couch, the atmospheric layer will also be torn appart and dissipate like a thick smoke, fog, or clouds tearing appart 25:25 taking away its protection on the Resurrection.
This stresses the fact that on that Day, the usual hiding places or protection found around us in nature will not exist anymore and we will have nothing to shield us from the punishment, except our deeds.

[ihsan]

This stresses the fact that on that Day, the usual hiding places or protection found around us in nature will not exist anymore and we will have nothing to shield us from the punishment, except our deeds.

Your response was most excellent, and this, particularly, was the most pointed. May Allah reward you.

[understanding the truth]

jazakallah for the responses, but what about the verse which states that the stars are located in the 1st of the 7 heavens, and many scholars have interperated the seven heavens to mean the seven layers of the atmosphere.
But in actual fact the stars are in the first heaven. So what is the first heaven...the atmosphere or the universe

[ihsan]

jazakallah for the responses, but what about the verse which states that the stars are located in the 1st of the 7 heavens, and many scholars have interperated the seven heavens to mean the seven layers of the atmosphere.
But in actual fact the stars are in the first heaven. So what is the first heaven...the atmosphere or the universe

Well, that would make the 'many scholars' wrong...

[shehabudheen]

There is no reason to get upset Brother. The issues you have raised are actually features of Quranic imagery. What you have come across on the internet are people claiming these verses as scientific descriptions, when in fact, they are not. It is a vast ignorance of the Quranic Arabic that amkes people assert such things. What these verse constitute are examples of Arabic literary technique. The Quran is employing a metaphor, not a technical description in these verses. The metaphors may be common to other verses, or unique.

In verses similar to the following:



As Neal Robinson points out, When the Quran refers to the heavens as a canopy, the Quran is comparing the sky one sees above to the hospitable environment that an Arab would enjoy after a long journey in the burning hot sun, when he takes rest under the canopy of a tent. The sun is likened to the brilliant lamp that hangs from the center of the roof of a tent providing the Arab with soothing light. The earth, in these specific verses, is compared to a carpet that a host would spread out for the guest to sit on. The verses are usually translated, and more accurately, as the earth being 'spread out'. The word 'carpet' is suppressed, which is a common feature of the pre-islamic Arabic. The Quran is pointing out that Allah is like the generous host that provides a desert traveller with shelter through his tent as well as comfort and food in this world, during a long journey. One must remember that to the Arabs, honoring a guest is the highest honor and further, to appreciate acts of this kind were the ultimate sign of nobility. How ungrateful it is for man to act ungrateful and reject these favors of the host?

Further, the imagery conveys another reality. Tents are folded up by beduoin dwellers as they move on to their next life. Like a tent, the earth and heavens too will be folded up to usher in a new existence. There is nothing that depicts temporality better than the tent-life of a beduoin. Further, the Quran says that the canopy that we see as strong will be ripped apart like a tent in the midst of strong winds.



This is a depiction of how hell will be raging on the Day of Judgement. Molten brass is fiery red and orange, and the Quran is stating that the hell will be raging, such that the sky will reflect the fiery nature of hell. It will be colored an extreme red, so imagine the very state of Hell itself. In other verses, the Quran likens the sky to being stripped, like the skin of a camel, revealing the very red nature of the meat that has been exposed.



The sky falling refers to calamites that may strike from abaove, such as meteor showers and various other calamities that originate from the skies. The imagery is that of a building collapsing piece by piece upon the inhabitants.

The metaphors employed are suited to the context. Take surah Mulk for example. This surah itself revolves around the theme of people who reject Allah, and who are operating under the delusion that the fight they are waging against the Messenger, which is essentially a fight against the Great King, will be won by them. Allah states that seven heavens were created, one upon the other, demonstrating the vast enormity of the kingdom of the Mighty. It then goes on to tell man to look and see if one can find any cracks or fissures. The imagery being painted is that of an army trying to look at a way to attack the kingdom of the most Glorious King, but they are useless in finding a way, because the kingdom itself is from the Hands of the Creator of the heavens and earth itself. There are two elements being depicted, and that is the vastness of the kingdom of the heavens, as well as the fortified nature of all the heavens. The lowest heaven is lit by stars, which are depicted like citadels. The Quran doesn't even draw attention to the efforts of man to scale the kingdom, it goes right to the djins, who are pelted with flames from angels, like the flames tossed from catapults. The idea is that let alone the human beings not even finding a hole in the kingdom to begin an assault, even the djinns, who are strong and mighty and can fly are useless in penetrating the kingdom of God.

The Quran then draws a picture of the army defeated, being cast into the prison of hell, which roars like a lion in a cage ready to feed on it's victims. The angels, who are the armies of God and the loyal servants are then seen tossing the defeated victims into the heel that is like a lion, ready to pounce on them. Throughout that whole surah, there is imagery of armies and battles and the springs that men need to keep the army from thrist.



The shape of the earth has no relevance to the Arab, and further, what would that do for an Arab in generating gratitude. If the imagery is that of a generous host, spreading a carpet out for you to sit on, as well as provide you shelter with a canopy, known as the sky, then this is way more effective at generating gratitude and higher ideas, does it not? The earth being a ball is rather quite drab, don't you think, as far as it concerns an emotional and even intellectual appeal.



It isn't a science book, so then what is the issue. Just don;t listen to the erronsous interpretations and try and appreciate the Quran more from a literary perspective. To do that, I suggest you try and read translations of pre-Islamic poems, where the use of imagery was heavy for Arabs. Eyes are compared to ostrich eggs, skin is described like milk. The pre-islamic Arabic language was heavy in the usage of imagery. You can further read articles by Mustanir Mir, or the tafseer by Amin AHsan Islahi, and works by Neal Robinson in his Discovering the Quran for such wealth of information.

great answer