The Alien in our lungs

[kay44]

Whats the religious view on mitrochondria? This is an organisim that has incorprited itsellf into our lungs and converts oxygen into fuel for our bodies. It has no human DNA, it has its own seperate DNA and yet it is inside our lungs has an intergrated organisim.

[Ramsey]

Could you post a source for your information about mitochondria? It's somewhat.. inaccurate.

Also I doubt it if any religion on earth has much to say about mitochondria... except if you consider the Jedi Church a religion.

[alan]

Whats incorect,the facts are basically correct.Mitochondria,origionally a bacteria like organism,over millions of years of evolution,works in symbiosis, in the human organism to convert oxygen into fuel for our cells.They have a differant DNA makeup to humans and so are essentially another organism, within us,they are passed on via the female egg.

[Kabeer]

Salaams,
It has been a long time since I have done any kind of basic biology. But I was under the impression mitochondria are just sub-parts of our cells.
Not just in the lungs, but throughout our bodies, and are basically like the engine behind the cells.

Im guessing you have some kind of reasoning behind this line of thinking?(and as I said Im no biologist, so I may be incorrect about the facts)

Also, is it entirely correct to say the mitochondrial DNA is not human, since its actually a base part of us?

[Bishadi]

Salaams,
It has been a long time since I have done any kind of basic biology. But I was under the impression mitochondria are just sub-parts of our cells.
Not just in the lungs, but throughout our bodies, and are basically like the engine behind the cells. they are like the stomache of a cell.

they take in structures and combine the resonant energy of the structure to build usable forms

most all cells in any living structure have organellas and mitochondria




Im guessing you have some kind of reasoning behind this line of thinking?(and as I said Im no biologist, so I may be incorrect about the facts)

another fair representations.....

if you want to talk about aliens of the lungs how about a little update for you;

it appear there has been around 2000 above ground nuclear detonation (testing) on this earth since the creation of the fat boy; and from each they impose nuclear energy upon the dust and mass in their proximity; well that dust has encircled the earth a few times over......

and them smokers have tar in their lungs from smoking; them dust particles that are juiced up get lodged and stuck in the lungs, and when that energy is imposed to the lung cells, often the decay strikes the genetic chains and causes reproduction of disfunk (cancer) cells.

that one of the prime reasons smoking causes lung cancers


the smoke itself ain't doing it; that's a crock

Hint.... when firecrackers start firing away; cover your breathing intake, especially on windy days...

[kay44]

my line of thinking was on the subject of evolution, mitrochondria have different DNA patterns so they are a different lifeform form us, so therefore they are like aliens within us, theyve grown an evolution pattern growing inside of us and vice versa. isnt anything not of our DNA 'alien' and this isnt from nucular mutations, mitrochondra are of bacterial in origin, theyve lost alot of bacterial qualities though. so this different life form has pre-human origins and has and evolved on its own and has somehow managed to evolve within us and still maintain its own identity in a genetic sense but are still part of us. so its evolved along with us. so just wondering where this mitrochondria fits religiously seems has its part of us and is living.

[kay44]

heres a wikapedia source:
In cell biology, a mitochondrion (plural mitochondria) is a membrane-enclosed organelle found in most eukaryotic cells.[1] These organelles range from 1–10 micrometers (μm) in size. Mitochondria are sometimes described as "cellular power plants" because they generate most of the cell's supply of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), used as a source of chemical energy. In addition to supplying cellular energy, mitochondria are involved in a range of other processes, such as signaling, cellular differentiation, cell death, as well as the control of the cell cycle and cell growth.[2] Mitochondria have been implicated in several human diseases, including mental disorders,[3] cardiac dysfunction,[4] and may play a role in the aging process. The word mitochondrion comes from the Greek μίτος or mitos, thread + χονδρίον or khondrion, granule. Their ancestry is not fully understood, but, according to the endosymbiotic theory, mitochondria are descended from ancient bacteria, which were engulfed by the ancestors of eukaryotic cells more than a billion years ago.

Several characteristics make mitochondria unique. The number of mitochondria in a cell varies widely by organism and tissue type. Many cells have only a single mitochondrion, whereas others can contain several thousand mitochondria.[5][6] The organelle is composed of compartments that carry out specialized functions. These compartments or regions include the outer membrane, the intermembrane space, the inner membrane, and the cristae and matrix. Mitochondrial proteins vary depending on the tissues and species. In human, 615 distinct types of proteins were identified from cardiac mitochondria;[7] whereas in murine, 940 proteins encoded by distinct genes were reported.[8] The mitochondrial proteome is thought to be dynamically regulated.[9] Although most of a cell's DNA is contained in the cell nucleus, the mitochondrion has its own independent genome. Further, its DNA shows substantial similarity to bacterial genomes.

[Bishadi]

my line of thinking was on the subject of evolution, mitrochondria have different DNA patterns so they are a different lifeform form us, most every cell in your body has mitochondria

without them you would not be here; so you are of THEM


Mitochondria are membrane-bound organelles, and like the nucleus have a double membrane. The outer membrane is fairly smooth. But the inner membrane is highly convoluted, forming folds called cristae. The cristae greatly increase the inner membrane's surface area. It is on these cristae that food (sugar) is combined with oxygen to produce ATP - the primary energy source for the cell.




so therefore they are like aliens within us, theyve grown an evolution pattern growing inside of us and vice versa. isnt anything not of our DNA 'alien' it is of our DNA


and this isnt from nucular mutations, mitrochondra are of bacterial in origin, theyve lost alot of bacterial qualities though. so this different life form has pre-human origins and has and evolved on its own and has somehow managed to evolve within us and still maintain its own identity in a genetic sense but are still part of us. so its evolved along with us. so just wondering where this mitrochondria fits religiously seems has its part of us and is living.

perhaps a little info for you


Mitochondrial Eve (mt-mrca) is the name given by researchers to the woman who is defined as the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) for all currently living humans. Passed down from mother to offspring, her mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is now found in all living humans: every mtDNA in every living person is derived from hers. Mitochondrial Eve is the female counterpart of Y-chromosomal Adam, the patrilineal most recent common ancestor, although they lived at different times.



that was in Adam and Eve form to give you an idea, that our genetic lineage is actually of the very same line of mitochondria; of genetic make-up

every human life on earth has or had these bugs doing their job to support 'life to continue'

i.e..... our whole bodies are nothing but a whole community of varied life forms working together to keep our bodies alive.

it is exactly like this earth; a whole bunch of life forms living together to support 'life to continue' and a perfect example of how evolution can be observed; that from the single association of the simpliest life, to the progression of organizations in which mankind evolved from.

but the ignorance of man, is whom represents that existence (GOD) put man as some superior life (in reality a combination of many 'lives') as an isolated 'king' of the beasts of the garden (nature)

God, never said such a thing! Heck to simply look at this last 100 yrs, just look at what that isolation of thought has done to 'mother earth'.

Mankind created religions that have done more damage to the minds children and welling being of the earth, community and compassion that any single 'evil' this whole of existence ever experienced.

[Bishadi]

the idea that may assist your question is that perhaps the oldest of single celled critter did not have organellas within their bodies (cell walls) but when environments changed, an association began in which to maintain the benefits of the 2 (to live), they combined to support each other and live.


kind of like now with the human species; the environment has changed, either we combine for the good of life to continue, or else!

[kay44]

yes most or all of our cells are different, but none of our cells other then the mitrochondria have a completely different DNA pattern then ours, not human DNA. we cant live without it and it cant live without us. weird thought having someting not human inside us.

[Bishadi]

yes most or all of our cells are different, but none of our cells other then the mitrochondria have a completely different DNA pattern then ours, not human DNA. we cant live without it and it cant live without us. weird thought having someting not human inside us.


that is a different observation

but then that is like suggest God created mankind but not his poop

[kay44]

i agree with you with what you said above, above, im a revert muslum but ive always known about evolution and nature and been intregued and looked into it, still doesnt mean to say that it wasnt of gods hand has people so devensivly think that evolution does rule out god.
i dont understand what you said above, though, hows what i said suggest god made man and not his poop

[Bishadi]

i agree with you with what you said above, im a revert muslum but ive always known about evolution and nature and been intregued and looked into it, still doesnt mean to say that it wasnt of gods hand has people so devensivly think that evolution does rule out god.


Never rule out GOD. Just observe God as all that is.

nothing exists without 'existence' itself

and what are the '3' of all that exists? That trinity?

Mass, energy and time!

Nothing is measured, observed, written, living or created without GOD.

Welcome to the '2nd creation'!

There is a pinnacle that all religions share; man will UNDERSTAND!

Just as every GOD man created had promised (the covenant).

my young friend, keep the drive alive as that very curiosity is how every word in existance began its life; someone chose to be honest and seek, within the humble eyes of compassion and reasoning, given to us by GOD!

it's pretty 'stupid easy' to be honest but that selfish pride of the ignorant is such a detriment to that evolution of knowledge, that the truth has taken so long to become.

but now, we have the internet, we can seek by choice, and mankind and the children of this earth will know Peace...........

and them old farts of the complacent can go extinct

see the world community; religious right (Israel) and that conflict thereof born of beliefs, will be the causation of the destruction this world is about to experience

but there is a friend who will not fail!

them children will inherit the earth and the fathers will be vindicated by 'truth'

have you ever heard the idea; 'and the young will begin to teach the old'?

that is because many of the old are incapable of giving into 'the truth' (because the cannot understand) and will eventually be run over by the freight train of reality

you stand and be of truth, and Peace will begin within your whole of life

stay tuned!

[kay44]

i like the way you think, what it the second creation? ive never been a person of a set mind, im always learning and thinking for mysellf, not following the 'herd' i reverted to islam cause alot of it makes sence to me, its just putting things together, has one of my muslim freinds said someone who joins from the outside is doing so for valid reasons therefore not culturaly attached ect.

[Bishadi]

what it the second creation?

i will open a new thread




ive never been a person of a set mind, im always learning and thinking for mysellf, not following the 'herd' i reverted to islam cause alot of it makes sence to me,

if every person thought that way, more knowledge would evolve!




its just putting things together, has one of my muslim freinds said someone who joins from the outside is doing so for valid reasons therefore not culturaly attached ect.

good to open up your heart and mind with seeking and allowing yourself, with trust, to make good quality and compassionate decisions; Peace to you (for trusting and caring enough to cross all bindings for the good of understanding, the future and literally, your life)

every soul on earth has sought and pursued the truth but then many simply give up or become complacent but to see history recognize the greatest contributors this earth every knew or recorded were them who never gave in to the norm but trusted, and continued seeking, and left a trail of their findings (wrote/taught) for the next generations to take up from...

and then in that quest, be it true, that eventually the absolute would be found and thereby equal, pure and combining.

then imagine a world that could provide every child on earth thereof born; to be able to have the truth, by God. (it all comes from existence {God himself})

and then to know the truth, then each choice becomes a responsibility, by choice, to do 'good' as each person will know, that the choices they make, actually result and reflect, their ever lasting life.

we live in what we do

so to know what 'good and bad' are truthfully, equal to existence/God and all mankind. With no doubt as to perfect the understanding can be drilled down into the sciences, religions and philosophies; then Peace will reign forever upon this earth...

ever hear the idea of "heaven on earth"

imagine each equal in understanding; pure to God (existence)

imagine how much there is to learn and it all combines under 'light'

i.e... light is shared as electromagnetc radiation. defined as electric and magnetic fields at perpendicular planes. so if i held a 1 meter wavelength of light in my hand and pointed it at you; it is a cross

see how natural 'truth' works? all of it combines, my friend

remember the light; the time is here

[DeenBoyD]

Bashidi you make no sense is the majority of your posts. I think you might actually do more harm than good- making people stupider than more enlightened.

Kay what you are referring to is the Endosymbioitic Theory which states that mitochondria WERE a separate entity(bacteria) from human cells which were engulfed and over time evolved into part of the human cell. Evidence for this theory can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endosymbiotic_theory. As for your question, its pretty stupid. Studying the human body you will notice the remarkable complexity associated with it- something that had to have its origins rooted in the divine. Mitochondria alien? Hardly. Bacteria is found all over your body inside and out, many serving positive purposes. For example, E.coli in your intestines and numerous forms on your skin.

[alan]

Alien,yes in the sense that we do not share the same DNA,despite being inseperable.

[Kabeer]

Salaams Kay & Alan,

Alien,yes in the sense that we do not share the same DNA,despite being inseperable.
It still doesn't nescisarily mean that its alien to our bodies in origin. To say that would imply that human's existed without mitochondria prior to incorporating them into our bodies as our building blocks (not just our lungs)...

Doesnt it make more sense to consider that they are just a part of our design as living creatures? Therefore you might be thinking in reverse, instead of mitochondria+pre human being= Us, its Us= what we consider Mitochondrial DNA + other DNA patterns.

Also, I pretty much don't understand what Bishadi is saying, and yup ok guess that makes me another one of those who are ignorant and do see :-# .

So what are your opinions on the matter? It seems you are the only two who have acutally put some thought in to this ;).

Peace.

[alan]

I see it as a bit poetic to consider that we have an alien in us,but if we were "designed" why would the abilities of the mitochondria,not have been incorporated in our DNA?It seems this is a result of non designed evolution.

[Kabeer]

I see it as a bit poetic to consider that we have an alien in us,but if we were "designed" why would the abilities of the mitochondria,not have been incorporated in our DNA?It seems this is a result of non designed evolution.
Salaams Alan,

Btw, I hardly know any of the answers, just reponding with whats popping into my head :).
As for the why? I do not know, and I highly doubt anyone does. All animals have mitochondria (i think), maybe its just an essential part of making us the form of life we are.

Here is a question, what animals dont have mitochondria?

Peace.

[alan]

All respiring creatures have mitochondria.

[The_Other_Admin]

I see it as a bit poetic to consider that we have an alien in us,but if we were "designed" why would the abilities of the mitochondria,not have been incorporated in our DNA?It seems this is a result of non designed evolution.
"Designed" means all the components have to have same DNA? I find it amazing how our body doesn't reject it, while it rejects even a foreign stem cell right out from a fetus.

[alan]

Well if you want to take bits of creation and make a Frankenstien man,the that may be possible,you could piece together a design.But why,why not create from scratch.The fact that we are cobbled together is one piece of evidence supporting non designed evolution.

[The_Other_Admin]

Well if you want to take bits of creation and make a Frankenstien man,the that may be possible,you could piece together a design.But why,why not create from scratch.The fact that we are cobbled together is one piece of evidence supporting non designed evolution.
Frankenstein man doesn't mean that it would have different DNA in sub-components, neither different DNA means it is not designed. From designing point of view, this is incorrect. Why something designed has to be created from scratch? Is it better to reinvent the wheel just so it is to be designed?

"cobbled together is one piece of evidence supporting non designed evolution" If Mitochondrial DNA was the same DNA as rest of our body, that wouldn't have been supporting evidence of non designed evolution? Mostly likely that would have been presented as evidence of evolution too.

[vinod]

It seems this is a result of non designed evolution.

Sounds like a god-of-the-gaps kind of argument.

[Bishadi]

Bashidi you make no sense is the majority of your posts. Which is probably the same you would say if you were observing on a Hare Krsna website. Such that what you may not understanding makes no sense.

For example the mechanics of today's physics share that the 2nd law of thermodynamics is unquestionable, when in reality the association of mass and energy to combine and support the life upon mass, completely contradicts the 2nd law.

Now as this thread is flowing, many cannot comprehend how a mitochondria is simply a structured combined, within the whole to support a specific function for the whole. This association is like the bees upon a flowering meadow, they each are entangled to the system in which they live. As each part has a progression that furthers the associations to support the life of them both.

These errors in the base mechanics are why the children are not taught the correct analogies within school.

Reality is, the progression is the natural form to evolution in complete contrast to the definitions mankind has accepted as law/truth and the perceived reality.

For example: see the religions for the exact types of flaws. Most share, be devoted to the truth with absolute honesty, yet profess maintaining belief over physical truths.

As the sciences profess and evolution of species yet cannot perform the math to represent it.

So to literally observe the various cells, bacteria, organellas and even worms all living together in what we call the human body, it is the unified 'life' we awaken too within our experience, as the collective of an enormous amount of life forms all combined to support the total to continue.

And all the rules shared in both the religions and the sciences combine by understanding how adams and energy associate by the 'light' of truth!

did that help?

[alan]

Frankenstein man doesn't mean that it would have different DNA in sub-components, neither different DNA means it is not designed. From designing point of view, this is incorrect. Why something designed has to be created from scratch? Is it better to reinvent the wheel just so it is to be designed?

"cobbled together is one piece of evidence supporting non designed evolution" If Mitochondrial DNA was the same DNA as rest of our body, that wouldn't have been supporting evidence of non designed evolution? Mostly likely that would have been presented as evidence of evolution too.

Are you of the opinion that we are a work in progress,an unfinished design?

[The_Other_Admin]

Are you of the opinion that we are a work in progress,an unfinished design?
I believe we are a work in progress and growth is the purpose, but that is entirely different topic.

You are not answering my questions.

So let me understand the reasoning here:
(1) Created work has to be from scratch and all components has to have same building blocks if not, it is not designed or incomplete design. Actually they are same building blocks, but how you put it for different DNA here? You get my point what I'm trying to say.

(2) Wouldn't common descent suggest that all the functionality will be in our DNA?

[alan]

"I believe we are a work in progress"

How do you square this with Islam?

Am thinking - slowely...

[The_Other_Admin]

"I believe we are a work in progress"

How do you square this with Islam?

Am thinking - slowely...
That is another topic, start another thread.

If it weren't for mtDNA we may not have known this: http://www.micro.siu.edu/micr302/302HumanAncestry.doc

[alan]

Actually these little mites are all over our body,in our cell,in our neurons.

[The_Other_Admin]

Actually these little mites are all over our body,in our cell,in our neurons.
you mean mt? They produce energy, they will be anywhere where energy is needed. Cells can't live without them, and they can't live without cells.

[alan]

Yep.

[Yahya Sulaiman]

Also I doubt it if any religion on earth has much to say about mitochondria... except if you consider the Jedi Church a religion.

That's "midi-chlorians". ;)