The Fitnah of "fitna"

[Al-Boriqi]

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P6Upxmm890

part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8azt0b-HGY&feature=related

another right wing wacko does exactly what british news channel 4 did with the wahhabi/salafi/sunnis by doing the following

1. snipping random ayaah out from the quraan striping them from their meaning and actual historical practice
2. outright lieing and mistranslating of the ayaah (example, "roast like a turkey's")
3. taking the illegitmate people who spoke on the affairs of pilitical matters who have no knowledge and who have undermined the salafi/wahhabi/sunni/islamic methodology and taken on the khariji methodology and without any differentiation, deemed it as Islamic, and therefore is Islam itself
4. not quoting the entirety of the ayaah so as to see what the hell it was talking about.

muslims shouldn't over react to this though, after all, what do they expect from a kafir. in any case, whatever happens, the world is at a better state with him dead.

it is not more like how the arab mushrikeen did against Islam in the time of the nabi, they had a mega propaganda campaign against him, calling him and his dawah various derogatory names so the common masses could be deceived by the lies of these antagonist for befundling the truth.

i must say, it was the best tabloid cut n paste job yet, unsurpassed, a medal of honor for the most unfair and unbalanced

[muhtadiyah]

Salaam Al-Boriqi,
in any case, whatever happens, the world is at a better state with him dead.You do realize that this statement confirms Mr. Wilders negative view of Islam?

peace,
mhtdyh

[Ramsey]

Salaam Al-Boriqi,

in any case, whatever happens, the world is at a better state with him dead.

You do realize that this statement confirms Mr. Wilders negative view of Islam?

peace,
mhtdyh

I'm going to have to disagree. The man seems to devote his life to spreading misery, hatred and discrimination. If that man had his way he would have a lot of blood on his hand.

I'm thinking that any person who knows what he did and is a person of clear conscience and well thinking mind, unhindered by prejudice and ignorance would agree that if Geertje Wilders dropped dead from a heart attack tomorrow, the world would be a safer more peaceful place. This is regardless of race, religion or gender.

Although I think that most of his supporters do a little dance for joy in their mind whenever a Muslim says that.

[muhtadiyah]

Although I think that most of his supporters do a little dance for joy in their mind whenever a Muslim says that.Perhaps it would be wiser, as well as kinder, if Muslims said that the world would be a better place if Mr. Wilders was converted.

The chances of that happening are pretty slim, though, especially if you keep wishing him dead.

[Al-Boriqi]

Perhaps it would be wiser, as well as kinder, if Muslims said that the world would be a better place if Mr. Wilders was converted.

The chances of that happening are pretty slim, though, especially if you keep wishing him dead.

You do realize that this statement confirms Mr. Wilders negative view of Islam?

[Al-Boriqi]

I'm going to have to disagree. The man seems to devote his life to spreading misery, hatred and discrimination. If that man had his way he would have a lot of blood on his hand.

I'm thinking that any person who knows what he did and is a person of clear conscience and well thinking mind, unhindered by prejudice and ignorance would agree that if Geertje Wilders dropped dead from a heart attack tomorrow, the world would be a safer more peaceful place. This is regardless of race, religion or gender.

Although I think that most of his supporters do a little dance for joy in their mind whenever a Muslim says that.

this understanding should already be understood and ingrained with anyone who claims Islam. how unfortunate are we that such a matter is not the case.

[muhtadiyah]

The difference is that conversion is a change of mind and heart that happens willingly, isn't it? If Islam was spread by the sword, as Mr. Wilders seems to think, and conversion was the result of coercion, I'd agree with you. Wishing him converted would confirm his negative view.

[Al-Boriqi]

The difference is that conversion is a change of mind and heart that happens willingly, isn't it? If Islam was spread by the sword, as Mr. Wilders seems to think, and conversion was the result of coercion, I'd agree with you. Wishing him converted would confirm his negative view.

my reply was rhetoric modeled in your words for not actualizing the reality of what ramsey said by default of being muslim

[muhtadiyah]

my reply was rhetoric modeled in your words for not actualizing the reality of what ramsey said by default of being muslimI took your initial response at face value. What you're saying above doesn't really make sense.

[Ramsey]

Wilders could find himself obsessed with World of Warcraft and spend his remaining time on earth pretending to be a gnome with magical powers for all I care. As long as he isn't spreading hatred and misery I couldn't really give a damn.

PS. stating the fact that the world would be a better place without him in it, is not technically wishing him dead but rather just stating the obvious.

[vinod]

my reply was rhetoric modeled in your words for not actualizing the reality of what ramsey said by default of being muslim

And it was rhetoric that failed. That is what muhtadiyah tried to show you.

[vinod]

By The Way, you sure those are the links. They seem to be taking me to a general page and not to a specific video.

[muhtadiyah]

Wilders could find himself obsessed with World of Warcraft and spend his remaining time on earth pretending to be a gnome with magical powers for all I care. As long as he isn't spreading hatred and misery I couldn't really give a damn.That'd work too, I guess.
PS. stating the fact that the world would be a better place without him in it, is not technically wishing him dead but rather just stating the obvious.Point taken. But if you want to make the world really peaceful, about 99% of us need to drop dead, doncha think?

[Ramsey]

By The Way, you sure those are the links. They seem to be taking me to a general page and not to a specific video.

I believe that the video the link referred to has been removed. However if you still want to watch them rest assured they can still be found.

[Ramsey]

But if you want to make the world really peaceful, about 99% of us need to drop dead, doncha think?

Every day of my life. And the nice part is that we would have more then enough genetic diversity to repopulate the human race. However there are a few problems with this solution.

Such a high mortality rate would not necessarily result in peace. Not only would we still have a whole lot of people (60 million is still a lot) but we would have world wide chaos. We would have plagues running rampant from all the dead bodies (insufficient scavengers) and the infrastructure would simply become inoperable. Factories would no longer operate etc. Very few people are actually self sufficient these days, although those in agriculture might do fine.

Until of course the people from the cities come there and demand food and basically swarm over the place like locusts. We would also have problems with other things such as education etc etc. The world would plummet into the dark ages and it will take a few generations before we relearn the skills to live with so little.

Of course we're also forgetting all the riots and such that will happen. Rape rates will go sky high for example. And the fearful and paranoid mobs will probably burn a lot of things down.

I don't think that a 99% mortality rate would really achieve the desired goal.

[muhtadiyah]

I don't think that a 99% mortality rate would really achieve the desired goal.Well, I was going to say 100%, but that seemed a bit extreme...

[MF]

in any case, whatever happens, the world is at a better state with him dead.

rediculous remark, you are as mad as him.. in fact you prove exactly the point he's trying to make.

[Ramsey]

Well, I was going to say 100%, but that seemed a bit extreme...

Or acceptable depending on your point of view. Of course the problem with 100% (or even 99%) is that it still goes against the original intention. Making the world a better place for mankind. If we eliminate mankind it goes against the original purpose.

Also you forget that the original plot of this thread was stating that the world would be a better place without Wilders in it. Not to actively cause said death.

Even if we were to wish for it, I do not think that would be so bad either really. If a serial murderer who raped and killed many people was caught and executed would you not feel relieved? And if he had taken someone dear to you, would you not be happy to see him gone, unable to hurt anyone else again.

Geert Wilders is not much difference. He is a hatemonger, if he had his way many would perish and many would suffer so that he may get some attention. He would have parents lose their children, wives become widows and make children into orphans. He would scar a nation for generations for his own pleasure. It is not as if he just made one or two video's, no this man has made it his life work to spread hatred. This man might possibly be more evil then we can comprehend. If God would smite this man, remove his plague from the earth through a heart attack, embolism or some other form of death, then who are we to argue? We should be grateful if such a thing would happen.

If we make but one flaw here, it is that we do not hold account for the possibility, that it is possible that his brand of hatred will do something good without him knowing it. That adversity will strengthen us, that because of what he says, people will read the Qur'an and make themselves into better people. In that, we have possibly made a mistake.

In any case I am growing bored with Geert Wilders and I am tired of giving the bully what he truly desires. Attention.

P.S. I suppose this would be a good moment to establish that I do not think he should die from human hands. Islamically I do not believe we are allowed to kill him. We must therefore rely on truth to defeat him. And perhaps (sigh) compassion as well.

[vinod]

Ramsey, too much time on your hands?

[MF]

This man might possibly be more evil then we can comprehend. If God would smite this man, remove his plague from the earth through a heart attack, embolism or some other form of death, then who are we to argue? We should be grateful if such a thing would happen.

I think the same about Bin Laden, and Bin ladens motivated by Islams ideology and Geert is against this ideology.

mind you Geert has alot of zetels in the netherlands and people that agree with him when it comes to Islam

[Ramsey]

Ramsey, too much time on your hands?

Simply an vivid imagination and a rather dark sense of humour.


I think the same about Bin Laden, and Bin ladens motivated by Islams ideology and Geert is against this ideology.

So you'd like it if Bin Laden got addicted to World of Warcraft? (kidding)

Seriously, Bin Laden would be a tricky situation. Assuming he did it (some people on this forum believe he didn't but lets at least assume he did it) it's already been done. His death would have little effect, he might actually already be dead. I'm not thinking of punishment but rather to prevent further acts.

Also something that most people don't know, but while his professed religion is Islam his methodology, political thinking and ideologies are heavily influenced by Western thought. They just got an Islamic veneer cast over them afterwards. And of course other goals. I suppose I should research this sometime but it's very hard to research sadly. I only remember it from a lecture I had last year (Dutch Christian professor, so not biased towards Islam in this case).


mind you Geert has alot of zetels in the netherlands and people that agree with him when it comes to Islam

And that MF, is the scary part. A good percentage of Dutch people seem to prefer following a hatemonger rather then looking for constructive solutions to problems. They are problem oriented instead of solution oriented.

[MF]

A good percentage of Dutch people seem to prefer following a hatemonger rather then looking for constructive solutions to problems. They are problem oriented instead of solution oriented.

Problem is that there is no real solution to the intergration problem we have in our country, you want the masses that are already here to intergrate and you want the masses still to come to be stopped untill there is a solution to the current problem..

A not so funny side affect from the more conservative Islam is not to intergrate in western societies, not to listen to governments with human made laws etc and where woman have to stay inside of the house and that sort of stuff

the problem only gets bigger the more allogtonen come here for golddigging don't you agree?

I'm trying to say, how can you be solution oriented and keep the flow of immigrant golddiggers going?

Geert warns for Islam and maybe he's going a little overboard with it but those quranic texts are really in the quran and are by some groups litterary interpretated.. no matter how many times people say they are taken out of context they motivate moroccans with an identity crisis to join jihad and kill people.

[lumumba_s]

this understanding should already be understood:) Classic, just classic.

[jihadr]

Salam!

My internet speed has slowed right down and I havent read every single response. If this link has already been posted then please accept my appology.


Complete Refutation of the movie Fitnah by Mr Geert Wilders

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ad3_1206973696

Enjoy!

[Ramsey]

Geert warns for Islam and maybe he's going a little overboard with it but those quranic texts are really in the quran and are by some groups litterary interpretated.. no matter how many times people say they are taken out of context they motivate moroccans with an identity crisis to join jihad and kill people.

Geert Wilders doesn't just go overboard a little, he outright lies and distorts. He claimed for example that the Qur'an stated that one should stone an apostate. I don't know about him but I don't recall a verse about stoning people at all. He uses verses from the Qur'an in such a way that only someone who has never read the Qur'an.

An example are some verses that he put in there about unbelievers and boiling water. The way he did it it was as if the Qur'an was prescribing that as a punishment for unbelievers. That was only partially correct though since the punishment was supposed to be IN HELL. Even the most literal Muslim would understand that its IN HELL. Verses about what happens in hell can't be seen as fascist verses, they can't even be seen as having anything to do with terrorism except if Geert Wilders was commiting it.

Even Dutch politicians on television were saying how Wilders was dishonest, crooked and was did not in any way promote any kind of dialogue.
For someone supposed to be defending Dutch values he sure doesn't seem to possess any.

[jihadr]

What the...

Fitna` Producer Geert Wilders Visited Israel 40 times, Claims Mossad Connections

http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=1611

:wtf:

[Al-Boriqi]

By The Way, you sure those are the links. They seem to be taking me to a general page and not to a specific video.

well, you have to login into you tube. stupid policy they have because its "too graphic". i had to create an account so that i could be given the luxary of watching wilder's hatred for something he has not a shred of knowledge about.

you need to login so that you can verify your above 18.

ive seen much worse on other sources of media.

[Al-Boriqi]

And it was rhetoric that failed. That is what muhtadiyah tried to show you.

only in your world vinod, it failed. whereas in reality, she finally agreed. as anyone can easily see her agreement with ramsey at the end, whcih was my sentiments as well

[Ramsey]

well, you have to login into you tube. stupid policy they have because its "too graphic". i had to create an account so that i could be given the luxary of watching wilder's hatred for something he has not a shred of knowledge about.

you need to login so that you can verify your above 18.

ive seen much worse on other sources of media.

Actually on the links you gave the video has been removed by the user.

Here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7816189809465173535&q=fitna&total=2557&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5) is another version though. Although I still think we're giving the sad little man too much attention.

Here are some links to the refutation of said movie. I haven't watched it yet but I decided to mention it.

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEjq_8KDG8E)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTZ4RarnT9o)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM7Hr4gORxo)

[Al-Boriqi]

rediculous remark, you are as mad as him.. in fact you prove exactly the point he's trying to make.

it is rediculous to ignorants, not to the knowledgeable. had you perceived the correct intent, you would have realized that i disagree and would go so far as to stop the idea or practiction of killing people indiscriminately on their own by default of their poisoning society. the spirit of my remark surrounds the fact that while the world would be a better place without him, if he is killed, it is something that he was asking for, in spite of my opposition to ignorant muslims who may perform the task.

[Al-Boriqi]

quite enteresting excerpt from wikipedia

Kurt Westergaard, the cartoonist of one of the Jyllands-Posten cartoons of Muhammed, has expressed concerns because his cartoon is used in the film without his permission, a violation of copyright. The Danish Union of Journalists has said it will file a lawsuit on Westergaard’s behalf as he is still in hiding from the death threats against him. Westergaard says his cartoon was aimed against Islamic terrorists, not against Islam as a religion. Simimlarly (sic) Dutch director Rob Muntz announced to file a lawsuit because of an unreferenced section of his interview with Theo van Gogh, violating his copyright / intellectual property rights.

refer to

http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/29/fitna/#comment-16269

[MF]

Even Dutch politicians on television were saying how Wilders was dishonest, crooked and was did not in any way promote any kind of dialogue.
that is because they **** their pants for terrorist attacks, they bow for extremism. They are scared for the same reaction Denmark got.

Netherlands fight in Afghanistan and they are on a rebuildind mission (yeah right, all they do is fight the taleban) and the locals there are demonstrating against the netherlands.. oh boy I'm enjoying Geert so much.. I hope Netherland has to leave afghanistan because of him

[muhtadiyah]

only in your world vinod, it failed. whereas in reality, she finally agreed. as anyone can easily see her agreement with ramsey at the end, whcih was my sentiments as wellI agreed that saying the world would be better off without someone is 'technically' not the same as wishing them dead. I did not agree that the world would be better without Wilders.

Hopefully, the irony in my following remark about the world being more peaceful if 99% of us were dead was clear. The point is that getting rid of one troublesome man is not going to change anything; another will simply take his place. Mr. Wilders is not the problem; he's just a symptom.

peace,
mhtdyh

[Al-Boriqi]

I agreed that saying the world would be better off without someone is 'technically' not the same as wishing them dead. I did not agree that the world would be better without Wilders.

Hopefully, the irony in my following remark about the world being more peaceful if 99% of us were dead was clear. The point is that getting rid of one troublesome man is not going to change anything; another will simply take his place. Mr. Wilders is not the problem; he's just a symptom.

peace,
mhtdyh


that is true and that is as well not true

the trueth o it is that he is surely a symptom, and WE are the problem

the untruth is that symptons are or increase the potency of problems by their turning into "antagonists"

there are two types of kuffar

1. those who do not hold hostility towards the people of emaan
2. those who do

Mf clearly falls into the first and Geert Widlers falls into the second, and when your in a position of power, as he is, such antagonism can propel nations (or at least the nation of that individual) to act or follow suit or act half hazardly. people like him are more than mere "symptons", they are a symptom that needs to be exterminated before it infects others with the same symptom. then after the cure, we could boogey down and hooray (http://youtube.com/watch?v=56ha-thfEx8)

that is why K'ab ibn Ashraf was killed. The only problem is that during the prophet's time, that was during the muslim state. now we have non, and if we did, he does not reach our jurisdiction for anything to be done for such treasonous activity

[hasan]

'Fitna' is fanatical - but it deserves a voice
Saturday, April 5, 2008

Mustafa AKYOL


I just saw "Fitna," the new controversial film produced by Geert Wilders, head of the Dutch Freedom Party. The 17-minute video shows acts of violence, and expressions of hatred, by Muslims against “infidels.” Heads are cut off, bodies are blown apart, children are taught to denounce Jews as "apes and pigs," imams call for world domination, and protesters hold signs that read, "God Bless Hitler." What makes all this disturbing scenery even more provocative, and, in a sense, more meaningful, is the way they are connected to the Koran. After each instance of ferocity, “Fitna” quotes a passage from the Muslim Scripture which, apparently, presents a justification.

The message of the film is clear: The roots of “Muslim rage,” as Bernard Lewis once defined it, is the very sacred book that these Muslims believe in.

But is that really true?


Koran and the Book of Joshua:

No, not really. Things are actually much more complicated. And Wilder’s film presents them in a highly prejudiced, or even a fanatical fashion.

The film actually does not lie or cheat. Such violent or angry Muslims do exist, and so do the belligerent passages in the Koran. What the film does is to cherry-pick them. There are also many messages of tolerance, compassion, and peace in the Koran. Using the same method of purposeful selection, one could also make a movie titled “Islamic Agape,” which would include the scenes of smiling Muslims and benevolent verses.

Moreover, one can use “Fitna”s selective method to propagate against most other religions – such as, say, Judaism. Actually if you focus on the radical groups among the Jewish settlers in Israel, you can find a very similar language of hatred, and even acts of terrorism such as the mosque massacre perpetrated by Baruch Goldstein in Hebron in 1994. It is also remarkable that such fringe Jewish fundamentalists, like the followers of the late radical Rabbi Meir David Kahane, use passages from the Hebrew Bible in order to justify, and even amplify, their fervor.

Actually certain parts of the Old Testament, and most notably the Book of Joshua, would overshadow any sura (chapter) of the Koran in terms of militancy. But the overwhelming majority of the world’s Jews know that the Book of Joshua, which tells the war of the Israelites against the pagan Canaanites, is a historical record which does not address today’s realities. Similarly, when they read Koran’s chapters about Prophet Muhammad’s war with pagan Arabs, most Muslims regard them as historical anecdotes. But a worrying number of Muslims, such as the ones that “Fitna” has captured, think differently. What makes them believe in a scripture-driven militancy is the same thing that influences radical Jewish settlers: They are in a sociopolitical context which radicalizes them. They believe that their values, identities and very lives of their children are in danger – and they conclude they are fighting the same existential war that Joshua or Muhammad fought centuries ago.

Therefore the right thing to do in the face Islamic militancy is not to ask for revision in the Koran – as “Fitna” naively does – but to try to save the Muslims from the idea that they are under attack and humiliation. This idea might be stemming from real troubles – such as wars, conflicts or dictatorships in the Muslim world, or the sense of alienation felt by Muslims in Europe. Or it might be stemming from imaginary ones – beliefs in conspiracy theories about “the Elders of Zion,” or “the global war on Islam.” In any case, the solution is the stabilization and modernization of Muslim societies and communities. If the global jihadist battle cry, “Islam is under attack,” loses its steam, then, in the eyes of Muslims, the passages in the Koran that relate to jihad will become less and less literal.


What needs to be done?:

Well, this is what I would like to say about “Fitna,” at least in a nutshell. But there is also another issue, which is what Muslims should do about this film. Should we protest it, ask for its banning, and even threaten Wilders and his team? No, I don’t think so. The fanaticism of a movie would not be a reason to ban or censor it. Moreover, one could even argue that Mr. Wilders has done us a favor by presenting how some non-Muslims in the West perceive Islam. That perception, although highly biased, is a fact that we Muslims have to face and think about.

Angry rantings, let alone violent protests, in the face of “Fitna” would actually be a confirmation of the film’s argument – that Muslims are, by nature, uncivilized people. Quite the contrary, I think this film, and all similar cases of anti-Islamic propaganda, should be countered by Muslims with dignity and civility. We can choose to ignore them, but if we will respond, it should be done politely, reasonably and scholarly.

And, interestingly, that would be response which would find its justification in the Koran. “Repel the bad with something better,” verse 41:34 reads, “and, if there is enmity between you and someone else, he will be like a bosom friend.”

For my part, I would prefer to chat with Mr. Wilders rather than bullying him. If he ever hits Turkey, I will be most glad to buy him coffee — a real Turkish one — and tell him about how I understand Islam as a believer. I could even take him to one of the magnificent mosques of Istanbul, in which men, women and children praise God and find moral inspiration. “Fitna” in the Islamic sense, which means “strife on Earth,” would be the very last thing these people would sympathize with. Quite many of them, unlike Mr. Wilders, even believe in a Europe in which Muslims and others can live together in peace.

[Al-Boriqi]

\you do realize who this dude is right.

[MF]

no idea who that dude is, but its the content that matters and I think thats exactly the kind of realisation you want to people to have.

I heard on the news there were demonstrations in teheran in front of the dutch embassy and it was expected that thousands of demonstrators would show up but in the end only 40 did lol.. thats a good thing I think

http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/2199955/Weinig_animo_voor_antiFitnademo.html

[Al-Boriqi]

The I guess you wouldn't mind this content if you were a christian

A direct reply to Fitna

Schism (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=651691429584856936&q=anti+islam&ei=5WUKSMWAPYWqrgKpiPSeBA&hl=en)

[vinod]

Very clever work by the director of schism. He got his point across about Fitna.

[Al-Boriqi]

Very clever work by the director of schism. He got his point across about Fitna.

wow, you actually agree
amaaaaazing

I thought you would have performed the usual downplayng of muslim sentiments and the raising of kuffaric sentiments

i need to increase my husn adh-dhan of you by 5 points :giggling:

[newsX]

Shalom

Thanks to over-reacting Muslims, this silly video clip is now a hit.

[MF]

wasnt only muslims who overreacted, also non muslims overreacted for fear of the overreaction of muslims.. everyone made a big fitna before the movie was even made public, politicians spoke of crisis and stuff here.. creating the fitna, making the movie bigger then it was.

Simply rediculous when you think about it.. I don't see a fitna like that when there's a critical movie about christianity or hitler

[MF]

The I guess you wouldn't mind this content if you were a christian

A direct reply to Fitna

Schism (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=651691429584856936&q=anti+islam&ei=5WUKSMWAPYWqrgKpiPSeBA&hl=en)

I guess that completely missed the point.. a critical movie about the bible isn't really going to create a fitna

[The_Other_Admin]

wasnt only muslims who overreacted, also non muslims overreacted for fear of the overreaction of muslims.. everyone made a big fitna before the movie was even made public, politicians spoke of crisis and stuff here.. creating the fitna, making the movie bigger then it was.

That is not what I'm hearing:



Dutch Jews louder than Muslims in condemning 'Fitna' film
Ironically, Dutch Jews are more outspoken than local Muslims in their criticism of the newly released anti-Islam film by rightist legislator Geert Wilders, says Dr. Ronny Naftaniel, head of the pro-Zionist Center for Information and Documentation (CIDI).

Last Friday, hours after the film's online release, CJO, the Jewish community central board of which CIDI is a member, condemned the footage as generalizing and counterproductive to the fight against extremism. The board described parts of the film as unacceptable, adding it had crossed the line of legitimate criticism.

By contrast, Yusuf Altuntas of CMO, a body that facilitates contact between Muslims and the government, said that by releasing the film - which is entitled "Fitna" (Arabic for "strife") - "Wilders is testing the limits of acceptability, but hasn't gone beyond them."


The Muslim community's response - which the Dutch media described as "calm" - was to say the film is not religiously insulting to Islam, and that they had anticipated more offensive content. The government's fears of rioting never materialized.

"They [the Muslim community] are afraid. They have been told by the Dutch government to keep quiet and be wise about this issue, and that's what they want to do," Naftaniel told Haaretz on Monday in CIDI's four-story headquarters near the American embassy.

"I was surprised by the silence of the local Muslim leaders," Naftaniel added. "If I were a Muslim, I would speak out and I would blame Wilders for this film. I wouldn't stop shouting about it. I don't understand their silence, I really don't. I think they are scared."

A spokesman for CMO told Haaretz that although the Muslim community had not taken to protesting the film in the streets, the umbrella group for Dutch Muslims does condemn it.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/970768.html

[MF]

That is not what I'm hearing:

I've not heard any Jews here in the media but the Dutch muslims were indeed calm as the article says in contrast with our government.

But I think newsx is referring at the muslims abroad.. they were demonstrating and burning dutch and danish flags and stuff.. shouting the dutch should be beheaded, boycotted and what else... and this was all before the movie was public because once it came out it was waisted effort, the movie wasnt anything new or shocking at all because this was already shown to the world in a different compilation many many times.

[The_Other_Admin]

But I think newsx is referring at the muslims abroad.. they were demonstrating and burning dutch and danish flags and stuff.. shouting the dutch should be beheaded, boycotted and what else... and this was all before the movie was public because once it came out it was waisted effort, the movie wasnt anything new or shocking at all because this was already shown to the world in a different compilation many many times.
Even aboard is quiet, there are always few who are buring flags and stuff in some instable places all the time. Couple of days before I saw in the news people were burning cars in karachi. I don't know what was that about.

[Roswell]

Couple of days before I saw in the news people were burning cars in karachi. I don't know what was that about.

That was due to the clash between a political party and lawyers.

[Guest]

Assalaamu'alaikum

On the subject of Karachi, Roswell (or other Pakistan dwellers), have you ever heard of the name, Maulana Yousuf Ludhianvi rahimahullah? What do you know about what happened to him?

Wassalaam

[Al-Boriqi]

Renowned Pakistani religious scholar, jurist, author, and leader, Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianvi, 68, was martyred in Karachi on Thursday (18 May 2000) while he was on his way back from the Fajr Salat. Gunmen using automatic weapons ambushed him, killing him and his driver instantly, and injuring his son. The brutal murder has shocked the country.

A close associate of the late Maulana Yusuf Binnori, Maulana Yusuf Ludhianvi was a leader of the Almi Majlis-e-Tahafuz Khatmi Nubuwat or the International Committee for the Protection of the Finality of Prophethood. The Majlis was instrumental in checking the anti-Islamic and anti-state activities of the Qadianis --- followers of a deviant form of Islam nurtured by the British in India.

A highly respected scholar and teacher, he taught at the famous Jamia Binoria Islamic Religious School in Karachi and edited their monthly magazine. He also authored about 30 books. For more than a decade his popular Q & A column appeared in daily Jang. Collections of those columns also have been published in book form.

Maulana Yusuf Ludhianvi was a stalwart against anti-Islamic forces working in Pakistan. Recently he had also warned the current military rulers of Pakistan not to tread on Islamic sensitivities in their fanatic efforts to appease the Western Powers. Just two days ago, the country's chief Executive had reluctantly withdrawn procedural changes that were aimed at practically nullifying the Blasphemy law.

Among his many memorable books is the one titled "Ikhtilafe Ummat aur Sirat-e-Mustaqeem" ("Factions in the Ummah and the Straight Path"). Written in his characteristic, brilliant, and convincing style, it showed the path of moderation in the face of religious differences.



"As to those who deny the Signs of Allah, and in defiance of right, slay the Prophets, and slay those who teach just dealing with mankind, announce to them a grievous penalty." [Al-i-'Imran 3:21]


as for the socio-political murder of this alaamah, you can read up on it here

http://www.karachipage.com/news/May_00/051900.html

as for his site, if you can read urdu

http://www.ludhianvi-shaheed.com/

hope that helps