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JoeChristian
5th March 2008, 01:28
On a Christian forum I was having a discussion with someone who I think is a Muslim, but I was confused when he talked about how we could be sons of God by His Spirit. Here is what we said:


HIM: The Quran just means God didn't have a son like Zeus siring Dionysus with a mortal, through real sex. It's not saying we all can't be children of God with God's Spirit.

ME: On the contrary, the Quran specifically says, "It is not worthy of the Beneficent Allah that He should take to Himself a son. There is no one in the heavens and the earth but will come to the Beneficent Allah as a servant." (19:93) Indeed, the Quran even goes so far as to deny the principle of adoption: "Allah hath not...made those whom ye claim to be your sons your sons. This is but a saying of your mouths. But Allah saith the truth and He showeth the way. Proclaim their real parentage. That will be more equitable in the sight of Allah. And if ye know not their fathers, then they are your brethren in the faith, and your clients." (33:4-5) If Allah forbids men the adoption of sons, how then can you claim that Allah will adopt us as sons, especially when the Quran specifically says that all come to God as servants, never as sons?

HIM: This isn't condemning all adoption at all, but a rebuke to the sinful situation created when Mohammed adopted Zeyd as his own flesh and blood, and then turned around and married his wife, which then violates these Laws:

1) Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
2) Leviticus 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
3) Quran 3:4-5 ...nor hath He made your wives whom ye declare (to be your mothers) your mothers, nor hath He made those whom ye claim (to be your sons) your sons.

So if an adopted son is like your own flesh and blood, you may not marry their wives since it is like marrying your own daughter, and also causing the son to have sex with his own mother.

I'm not sure whether the person who told me this is Muslim or not, but he often cites the Quran.

Could somebody tell me if anything he's said or I've said is inaccurate? I'm confused because I thought the whole point about God's refuting adoption in the Quran was specifically so that Mohammed could marry his adopted son's ex-wife without committing what otherwise would have been considered incest.

shaikh
27th March 2008, 21:35
Hi Joe,

I hope this reply would be beneficial for you, and that you increase your understanding of Islam.

In the belief in Islam, their is a seperation between Allah or (God) and the creation. God is completely different from things created, and therefore it is not appropriate in Islam to say that any thing is a son or child of God, because then the created thing is given the supremeness of the Creator, and the Creator is lowered to the lowliness of the Creation.

The scholars of Islam are very strict on not attributing any similuted to God from the Creation, as God is completely seperate. This is especially the case when you look at the religous texts that specify the characteristics of God, like God's hearing, seeing, Power, Mercy, etc.

There are many texts available about the Islamic belief in God, and I would encourage you to read them and learn more about the Islamic view of the Oneness of God.

As for adoption, the scholars in Islam say it is not allowed to call any child one's son or daughter, unless it is his real son or daughter. A child doesn't become a son or daughter by adoption, rather the child is the son or daughter of his or her real parents, and the child should be attributed by his real father's name.

Even, many scholars of Islam even disapprove of a wife changing her last name to that of her husband's last name, because the name would not be attributed to her real father's name.

As for the verse, the scholars of tafsir (interpretation of Quran) say that it was a refute of the taboo custom of one not marrying the divorced exwife of one's slave. In the culture in that time, it was looked as taboo. However, this taboo had no basis to it, and the verse was revealed to refute that custom. The texts of Islam, as explained by the scholars, specify which persons are not allowed to marry, and it is not allowed to prohibit any other individuals.

And Allah knows.

Ron
27th March 2008, 23:57
Salam All,

Adoption is not prohibited in Islam, it just has its boundaries. Surah Al Ahzaab 33:5 clarifies this.

Regards

lumumba_s
28th March 2008, 02:34
In modern lingo, Surah al-Azhab, Verse 5 does not speak of adoption, but of fosterage.

Incest by definition is for close family relatives having sexual intercourse with one another. Biologically, an adopted child is not one's own flesh and blood. The religion of Islam attaches a tremendous amount of importance in blood line and adoption directly contradicts this. Therefore, ther is no basis - religiously or biologically - for someone to claim that a stranger belongs to their direct bloodline when they infact do not. It is no different from me picking a stranger up off the street, declaring that he is my blood brother and then religiously forbidding myself from marrying his sister - on the grounds it would be incest. It has no basis in anything but convention.

The law forbidding adoption did not come about as a result of the Prophet (God bless him and give him peace), but the Prophet - like in many other cases - was made to be the one who broke the social custom that had no religious basis. And the verse had very little to do with marrying the ex of one's slave. Zaid was not known as Prophet Muhammad's slave, but as Prophet Muhammad's son. So regardless of what the one you were debating with said, the verses from Leviticus have no bearing on this conversation. An adopted son is not a the same as an actual son.