Location of Dajjal (Anti-Christ)

[Ansar Al-Haq]

...

[mule]

why do you think he is alive right now?

[Ansar Al-Haq]

We know from this hadith that he has been alive since the time of Muhammad pbuh.

[mule]

And you make fun of me because you think that what I believe about creation is unscientific.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Science has PROVEN that the account of the Bible on the universe is false.

The universe was not created in 6 days. It is a scientific fact.

Science has nothing to say about some man living off in the jungle on an island.

[hasan]

I am entertaining a possibilty he is on cyprus..dont ask why..it is incoherent ..patchwork..SHeikh Nazim..Mehdi..Nazim nearby dajjal..Geographaic location....history..dont take it too seriously..

I have been to cyprus afew times..and I love the place.. would like to live there..so central and laid back..

Saint Barnabas rests there too..claims of atlantis nearby..

[syedhs]

Salam Ansar & all,

Recently, there are many books published on topics like Dajjal, Al-Mahadi and one of the books i read is 'Jerusalem from Quran point of view' - I cant remember the exact title but it is something like that.

The book mentions the Al-Hadiths described by you in the first posting, and the conclusion is that the island is indeed Britain! They use the reasoning of the time frame mentioned there.. '1 month of sailing in the thunderstorm etc'.. and Britain is just about 1 month of sailing from Arab land..

[vinod]

Ansar

I have something for you and I'm presenting it with the intent of istigating a debate with your involvement- did you know that the UI team does not entertain the notion that ahadith form an independent source of belief? In other words, belief in Dajjal, mahdi, return of Jesus (there is another argument presented for this actually) etc are given a big cold shoulder i.e. even if a Muslim refuses to believe in them, it means nothing.

Note that the key question is - can ahadith be an independent (from Quran)source of belief? You and Ron did have a discussion (which I thought was going to die mid-way actually) on the role of ahadith in verifying a sunnah. It straightedned a lot of twisted notions in my mind. I'm hoping, another discussion on the other aspect of ahadith and Muslim belief will also clear some notions in my mind. It's pretty obvious that this is a more fundamental issue to be cleared before actually proceeding with the topic of this forum.

I, for one, haven't made up my mind on it. But I do know that you have a strong opinion on this matter and also one which is opposed to the UI view. And I do think you sure would take this up with Ron/Hisham, inshaAllah. I'll watch you both and chip in as the two of you debate this out. I'm not doing this with the the intent of riding on your posts. Rather, it is my request for help on this matter. This ofcourse is subject to my assumption of your opinion on this matter being true. Jazakallah.


Was-Salam
vinod

[mule]

I think that this is a very good topic to talk about, because the Anti Christ is talked about in many different religions.

I am interested to see what muslims believe about endtimes. Maybe some maybe interested in what my bible says about Anti Christ.

[mule]

Ansar,


Science has PROVEN that the account of the Bible on the universe is false.

The universe was not created in 6 days. It is a scientific fact.

Science has nothing to say about some man living off in the jungle on an island.

I am just trying to be honest about what the bible says. The Science community is human and has been known to make errors in the past.

How honest are you about what the Koran says?

007.054
YUSUFALI: Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!

010.003
YUSUFALI: Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?

011.007
YUSUFALI: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"

025.059
YUSUFALI: He Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between, in six days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority): Allah Most Gracious: ask thou, then, about Him of any acquainted (with such things).

032.004
YUSUFALI: It is Allah Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all between them, in six Days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority): ye have none, besides Him, to protect or intercede (for you): will ye not then receive admonition?

050.038
YUSUFALI: We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.

057.004
YUSUFALI: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.

I believe that the wisdom of God should be regarded before the wisdom of man. That means I try to trust the bible. I would be interested in know why you feel God could not have made the world in six days and I would be interested to know why it goes against science.

Have a merry Christmas,
mule

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Assalamu Alaykum,
A couple of interesting ideas here.

Brs. Hasan and Syedhs have brought up some interesting ideas for Dajjal location - Britain and Cyprus. Very Interesting; I didn't know there was already a book on this topic. Thanks for the info, I'll do some more research! :)

Br. Vinod, that is a good idea for discussion. Insha'Allah I will look to pursue it.

Sr. Mule, scientists know today that it was impossible fot the earth and solar system to form in 6 days. They also know that it took the earth a million years to settel before life could form. The Bible asserts that vegetation appeared BEFORE the sun! Completely unscientific.

Concerning the account given in the Qur'an, the word is yawm which can be translated as either day or period. Now, many Biblical scholars have tried to assert the same for the Bible. But the problem with that is that you don't solve the other problems like the vegetation one.

Salaam

[Yahya Sulaiman]

Concerning the account given in the Qur'an, the word is yawm which can be translated as either day or period.

I often see it translated as "epoch" or the like. I think "epoch" is probably a valid translation, but then again I haven't been able to get around to learning classical Arabic yet, so I don't know. In any case, even in English the word "day" can be used as such. Example: "In my day, people paid only 25 cents at the cinema!"

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Epoch, eon, period, same thing.

[Nadeem]

Salaam Ansar,

Wow,I've manged to reach post No 200, :cheer: phew,nowhere near your 13 or 1400,but then I'm not a cyberaddict.

Maybe al-Jassassah was an abominable snowman or some wild man of the woods or a wookie,maybe even a werewolf(as it looks like in your picture). :LOL:

There are ahadith that say the Dajjaal will appear from the east in Khurasan from the the jewish quarter of Isfahan,Iran. :cool:

But he's probably waiting somewhere else until the time to appear in the open,hidden on an island.
Could be anywhere in the then known or 'Old world and Allah(SWT) Knows best. :)

Wasalaam.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Congratulations on 200.

Yes the hadith says about Khurasan, but then that gets into the mystery of Ibn Sayaad who entered there.

[Nadeem]

Salaam Ansar,

Yes Ibn Sayyid was at one time thought to be the Dajjaal,even the Prophet(S) was thinking that he may be. :)

This was because he was behaving mischievously for a time,but then he repented, accepted Islam and eventually died a good Muslim.
So Ibn Sayyid was NOT the Dajjaal for sure. :cool:

Wasalaam.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

No scholar has been able to make such a conclusion.

The problem is, even after accepting Islam, he made the following statement to Abu Saeed Al-Khudri:
"But I know where the Dajjal is and when he will come"
and
"if it were offered to me I would not refuse"

Also, he entered in khurasan with hundreds of followers and was never seen again.

They say he might have been a minor Dajjal.

[Nadeem]

Salaam Ansar,

Mind my assumption regarding Ibn Sayyid,I really didn't think to check out those facts you just mentioned,as it happens I recall reading something similar about him,that he became bad again after embracing Islam. :)

But what did he mean when he made that statement though?
"If it were offered to me...".
What exactly is he referring to??
The chance to be the Dajjaal or something else??:confused:

So we can conclude that he MAY have been a minor Dajjal(liar) but NOT likely the Main Dajjaal. :)

Allah(SWT) truly knows best.

Wasalaam.

[Yahya Sulaiman]

Epoch, eon, period, same thing.

Not really. A period is not necessarily the same as an epoch/eon, because there is no specification in the word's meaning as to how long a span of time is being referred to. There can be, for instance, a three minute period. Epochs or eons, on the other hand, are never that brief. But I suppose that in the end it's unimportant.

[syedhs]

Salam all,

The book that I mentioned in my previous posting in this thread assert that the Island was indeed Britain. And then, after World War 2, he moves to USA. It may sound funny, but here is an observation:

Britain was the one who help founded Israel via Balfaour Declaration in 1914 (if not mistaken). Well, one may ask what is the link between Israel and Dajjal? Here, another book mentions about the Theodore Herzl, who was the founder of Zionist movement which later form Israel in 1948. Here i extract the meaning of his speech - 'in about 50 years, we will able to found our country - Israel' and the speech was about 51 years before 1948. The comment by the author is 'it was amazingly accurate as if Mr Herzl has prophecy power or there must be something amazingly powerful behind him'. It should be noted also that Herzl is able to meet any world leader of his wish, and whenever he wish. This is something very amazing done by a human, but maybe scary too.

And here something not very clear but maybe useful point. It is always after a major war, the 'world control' shifts - first Britain, and then USA after the 2nd world war. And now, USA is involved in 'terrorism-fighting war', and USA may not gain prosperity as before, and this in turn will shift the world control to Israel. So, one can say (easily refutable however) that Dajjal shift, first Uk -> USA -> Israel.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Assalamu Alaykum,

br. Yahya, I am aware of those differences, but the word yawm can be translated as any of those words.

Br. Nadeem, yes, I agree with your conclusion. :)

[Nadeem]

Salaam Ansar,

But what did he mean when he made that statement though?
"If it were offered to me...".
What exactly is he referring to??
The chance to be the Dajjaal or something else??:confused:




Salaam again Ansar,

Maybe Ibn Sayyid meant that if he was offered the chance to kill the Dajjal,he would not hesitate to take it. :cool:
It sure is a strange mystery. :confused:

Syedhs,

I honestly do not think that Britain is the island the Dajjal is waiting on!
If you read the account given by Tamim ad Dari,he tells us that the waves tossed and turned their boat for about a month.
He doesn't say that it was a normal months sail. :)

The waves could have been tossing and turning their vessel very close to the Arab peninsula,or even if they did venture far,they could have reached anyplace at a similar distance. :cool:

They could clearly tell that it was an island,so it must have been small enough for them to make that conclusion. ;)

I think it was possibly a small unknown island either in the Mediterranean sea or the Indian ocean and Allah(SWT) knows best.

Wasalaam.

[Nadeem]

But what did he mean when he made that statement though?
"If it were offered to me...".
What exactly is he referring to??
The chance to be the Dajjaal or something else??:confused:



Salaam again Ansar,

Maybe Ibn Sayyid meant that if he was offered the chance to kill the Dajjal,he would not hesitate to take it. :cool:
It sure is a strange mystery. :confused:

Syedhs,

I honestly do not believe that Britain is the island the Dajjal is waiting on!
If you read the account given by Tamim ad Dari,he tells us that the waves tossed and turned their boat for about a month.
He doesn't say that it was a normal months sail. :)

The waves could have been tossing and turning their vessel very close to the Arab peninsula,or even if they did venture far,they could have reached anyplace at a similar distance. :cool:

They could clearly tell that it was an island,so it must have been small enough for them to make that conclusion. ;)

Besides, the Prophet(S) clearly tells us in that hadith that the Dajjal is in the east.Britain is not east of Arabia,but northwest!So for sure it is not Britain.:cool: :)

I think it is possibly a small unknown island either in the Persian Gulf or the Indian ocean and Allah(SWT) knows best. :)

Wasalaam.

[Nadeem]

Salaam all,

Please see this link for some interesting information.:cool:
www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html#dajaal (http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html#dajaal).:)

Wasalaam.

[Vajradhara]

Science has nothing to say about some man living off in the jungle on an island.
science does have something to say about some man on an jungle island living for 1400 years or so... :)

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Salaam Vaj,
Looks like you're reading through some old threads?

science does have something to say about some man on an jungle island living for 1400 years or so...
no, probably much longer than that.

I suppose you feel that his extraordinary long life is contradictory to science? It is God who created the human body to begin with, so this question poses no difficulty to muslims.

Science cannot explain God, Angels, or Jinn, so why should we expect it to explain the Dajjal?

[Vajradhara]

Salaam Vaj,
Looks like you're reading through some old threads?

Salaam Ansar,

thank you for the post.



no, probably much longer than that.

I suppose you feel that his extraordinary long life is contradictory to science? It is God who created the human body to begin with, so this question poses no difficulty to muslims.
well... let me say it like this... we have no evidence of any beings living that long... lack of evidence however, is not evidence of lack.

from a stricly scientific point of view, i'd suppose until such evidence is presented we should refrain from coming to a conclusion.



Science cannot explain God, Angels, or Jinn, so why should we expect it to explain the Dajjal?
it shouldn't at all since these things are outside of the natural, observable and measureable.

[Ron]

Salam All,

Could the "dajjal" be in the hearts and minds?

[Nadeem]

www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html#dajaal (http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html#dajaal).


Salaam all,

Has anybody even looked at the above link?:confused:
It does really comprehensively deal with the Dajjal and shows from authentic ahadith that he is a real person who will indeed come at his appointed time!:cool: :)

Wasalaam.

[Vajradhara]

Salaam Nadeem,


i'm reading the link now...

i'd have to say, provided that i'm reading correctly, the Dajjal hasn't appeared yet.

i'm not sure how it works in Islam regarding these things... however, this one bit here:

Riding a white ass4, the two ears of which will be forty hands apart,

seems not to have happened yet. an *** (mule, i'm guessing) that was 40 hands wide, at the ears, would be a phenomena that the whole world would hear about. this *** would be wider that any horse that exists today is tall!

though.. reading another part.... it seems like some of it has come to fruition already... Muslims conquring Istanbul, for instance.

it's an interesting prophecy, to be sure.

will the words between the Dajjals eyes be visible to all beings, or just Muslims?

[Nadeem]

Peace Vaj,

It is more than likely metaphorical usage of the word '***' and could mean it to be something else.
Maybe some sophisticated 'marvel' of engineering mode of transport.:cool: :)

Although Muslims did conquer Constantinople back in 1453,obviously the Dajjal did not appear at that time.;) So it must be talking about a future re-conquest after losing it to non-Muslims again.
I have been to Turkey and notice that so many in the western part are westernised and disregard Islam.:(
Looks like western Turkey could eventually become non-Muslim territory again especially as they are looking to join the EU(European Union).:cool: :)

As for the letters Ka Fa Ra,only people of faith(Muslims) and maybe non-Muslims who are truly sincere in their search for the truth will also be able to read it.:confused: :)
Allah(SWT) knows best.

Regards.

[Vajradhara]

Salaam Nadeem,


well... sure... it could be a metaphor. to be honest with you, i've been told two different things regarding how Muslims view Al Qur'an, one wherein things are metaphor and similie and another view where everything is as it literally states.

i'm not in much of a position to have an opinion about that except to say that as metaphor it could actually mean many things, literally, though, it seems fairly clear.

i'm not sure that it's obvious, though i take your point :) didn't i also read that Dajjal would only be on earth for something like 40 days? hmm... i could be confused in that regard.

i'm afraid that you use of the term "westernized" doesn't actually communicate much to me, you see, from where i sit, Saudi Arabia is "the west" :) do you mean to indicate political alliances, military alliances, culture, religion, literature.. not to be obtuse, but i really have a hard time using directions as indicators of things other than directions ;)

[Ansar Al-Haq]

it shouldn't at all since these things are outside of the natural, observable and measureable.
Exactly.


Could the "dajjal" be in the hearts and minds?
This is not the understanding of the salaf, and the evidence from the sunnah really contradicts this.


Has anybody even looked at the above link
Yes, bro, I did! :)

I will quote it here for everyone:

Dajjal

The emergence of the Dajjal is the most important sign as his trial and fitna will be the biggest ever seen on the Face of the earth and even those firm in faith will be shaken.

The Messenger of Allah* said, "Between the creation of Prophet Adam* and the coming of the last hour, their will arise no matter more serious than the Dajjal."**** (Imran-b-Hussain/ Muslim)

Due to the severity of this turmoil, every Prophet from the first to the last warned and informed his people about, the Dajjal and his turmoil.* (Anas / Bukhari, Muslim)
******* The Dajjal will appear once the Muslim army, have conquered Constantinople and reached Syria. Emerging from the east, moving from city to city he will perform unusual feat and cause fitna wherever he goes. Before we move onto his trials many important questions need to be answered. 'Is he alive?' 'Which signs will precede him?' 'How will we recognise him?' and so forth.
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The story of Hadrat Tamim Dari and the Dajjal


The story of Tamim Dari which follows, answers the first and most important question, is the Dajjal alive? and whether Hadrat Tamim Dari and his companions have seen him when they were thrown by the waves on to some remote Island.

Fatimah-bint-Qais reported, "I heard the proclaimer of the Messenger of Allah* proclaiming (for) 'Congregational Prayer'. I went to the mosque and prayed with the Prophet*. When he finished his prayer, he sat upon the pulpit smiling and said, 'Let every man remain in his seat.' He then asked, 'Do you know why I have called you together?' They replied, 'Allah and his Messenger know best.' The Prophet* said, 'By Allah, I have not called you together for hope or for fear, I have called you together because Tamim ad- Dari who was a Christian, came and embraced Islam.
*** He narrated a story to me, which agreed with the account I had given to you about the Dajjal. He informed me that he had embarked upon a sea-boat with thirty men of Lakhm and Jozam. Then the sea waves played with them for a month and threw them on to an island when the sun was about to set. They sat in a small side boat and landed on the Island. A beast with very coarse hair met them. They could not tell its front from its back due to its excessive hair. They asked, 'Woe to thee! Who art thou?" It replied, 'I am a spy. Go to this man in the monastery, as he is eager to receive the information you bring.
*** ' Tamim Dari said, 'When it named a man for us, we fled away from it lest it might be the devil. Then we hurriedly went on until we entered the monastery and found a big-bodied man whom we had never seen before. He was firmly tied up, his hands tied to his neck, the place between his knees, and joints tied up with iron chains.' We asked, 'Woe to thee! What are thou?' He replied, 'You have the power to get my information. Inform me about yourselves.
*** ' They replied, 'We are people from Arabia, we embarked upon a sea boat, but the sea waves played with us for a month and threw us onto this island. A beast of coarse hairs met us and said, 'I am a spy. Go to the man in the monastery.' So we approached you hurriedly. He asked, 'Tell me about the trees of Baisan. Do they bear fruit?.' 'Yes' We replied. He said, 'Behold! Soon they will not yield fruit.' He asked, 'Inform me of the lake of Tiberias. Is there water in it?' We replied, 'It is full of water.' He informed us, 'Soon its water will disappear.' He then asked, 'Inform me of the fountain of Zugara. Is there water in it and do its inhabitants irrigate with the water of the fountain?' 'Yes, it is full of water and it's inhabitants irrigate from its water. He asked, 'Inform me of the Prophet of the illiterates. What does he do?' We said, 'He has just come out of Makkah and gone to Yathrib.' He asked, 'Have the Arabs fought with him?' 'Yes' We replied. He asked, 'How did he treat them' We informed him that he had got the upper hand of those of the Arabs who opposed him and they obeyed him. He said, 'Behold! It is better for them if they obey him. As for myself I am certainly the Anti-Christ and it is near that an order will be passed for me to come out. I shall then come out and travel the world. I shall leave no village at which I shall not land within 40 nights except Makkah and Taibah, which will be forbidden to me. Whenever I wish to enter one of the two, an angel with a sword in his hand will encounter me and prevent me therefrom. There will be angels on every side to guard it. The apostle of Allah struck his pulpit with his staff and said, 'This is Taibah meaning Madinah. Behold! Did I not tell you?' 'Yes' they replied. 'Behold, he is in the Syrian sea or sea of Yemen; no, rather he is from the eastern direction. He then pointed out with his hand to wards the East.'** (Muslim)
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Signs that will precede him

The coming of Imaam Mahdi
In light of many Ahadith the Ulama of the Ahlus-Sunnah are of the opinion that Imaam Mahdi will come before the Dajjal and the Dajjal will appear in the later parts of Imaam Mahdi's reign.

The Great Famine
There will be a famine for three years before his appearance. In the first year of the famine the heaven will withhold one third of its rain and the earth one third of its crops. In the second year of the famine heaven will withhold two thirds of its rain and the earth will withhold two thirds of its crops. In the third year there will not be a single drop of rain and not a single thing will grow and thus all the animals with hoofs and biting teeth will die and the Tasbeeh will suffice the believers hunger. (Asma-b-Yauzeed-Mishkat)

Dajjal's parents
His father will be tall and thin and his nose will be pointed like a beak while his mother will be fat with two long hands. They will both remain thirty years without a child. After thirty years a one eyed son with biting teeth and of little benefit will be born to them whose heart will remain awake while his eyes will sleep.* (Abu-Bakara-Tirmidhi)

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General signs that will precede Dajjal
From the hadith of Umme Shareek which can be found in Muslim we could conclude the Arabs will be less in numbers. At the same time we can conclude from the hadith of Jabir-b-Abdullah which can be found in An-Nihaya that religious learning will be at a low and very few people will be aquainted with religious principles and doctrines and thus ignorance will prevail.
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Signs in the Dajjal


Dajjal's Physical description
The Dajjal is a young1 fat 2* man, wheatish3* in complexion with a broad chest 4 and biting teeth. Resembling Abdul Uzzah bin Qatad from the tribe of Khuza'a his head is covered7* with curly hair8* with the letters "Ka' "Fa" "Ra''9 written between his eyes which every believer will be able to clearly see and read literate or illiterate, he has a shining forehead10 and defect in both eyes. His left eye has a swelling pupil11 while he is blind12 from the right. He has a brisk walk13and no children14

Footnote:
1)** Nawwas-b-Samaan / Muslim******************** 8) Nawwas-b-Samaan / Muslim
2)** Ibne-Umar / Bukhari /1 Muslim***************** 9) Hudaifah / Muslim
3)** Abdullab-b-Mugaffal / Kanzul-Ummal****** 10) Abu Huraira / Musnad Ahmad
4)** Abu Huraira / Musnad Ahmad****************** 11) Hudaifah / Muslim
5)** Abu Bakara / Tirmidhi****************************** 12) Ibne Umar / Bukhari / Muslim
6)** Nawwas-b-Samaan / Muslim******************** 13) Ubiadah / Abu Daud
7)** Hudaifah / Muslim************************************* 14) Abu Saeed al-Khudri / Muslim

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Dajjal's Emergence


Conquering Constantinople with Takbir, the Muslims will begin to take the booty. While they are distributing the war posses- sions a proclaimer will proclaim that the Dajjal has appeared and causing fitna in your homes. On hearing this cry the Muslims will leave the booty and head towards Syria1. It will come to their knowledge that this was a false rumour. However after reaching Syria the Dajjal will truly emerge. He will come out from a road between Syria and Iraq2 and his emergence will become known in Isfahan3 at a place called Yahoodah. Riding a white ***4, the two ears of which will be forty hands apart, 70,000 Jew's of Isfahan will follow him with hoods on their heads. Also accompanied by* Devils6 and Jewish magicians7 he will first claim Prophethood8 and then God hood. Travelling as fast as those clouds which are driven by the winds he will travel to east and west entering every country, carrying out murders, pillage, devastation and performing unusual feats wherever he goes9.

Footnote:
1) Abu Huraira / Muslim
2) Nawwas-b-Samaan / Muslim
3) Anas / Al-Fathur-Rabbani
4) Abu Huraira / Baihaqi
5) Anas / Muslim
6) Jabir-b-Abdullah / An-Nihayah
7) Ibne Abbas / Kanzul-Umaal
8) Abu Umamah / lbn Majah

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Dajjal's Turmoil


Dajjal's Deception
Two angels resembling two Prophets, one on either side will accompany him. This will be to test mankind. Hence Dajjal will ask, "Am I not your lord? Do I not give life and death?" One of the angels will reply, "You are a liar." However nobody will be able to hear this reply besides the other angel. The second angel addressing the first angel will say, "You are speaking the truth." Every body will hear what this second angel said and will think that an angel is testifying that the Dajjal is Allah though in reality this second angel was addressing the first and agreeing with his reply that you are speaking the truth that the Dajjal is certainly a liar.** (Narrated by Safeena-Musnad Ahrnad)

He will come to a Bedouin whose parents have passed away and will say to him, "Will you believe that I am your Lord if I bring your parents back to life." He will reply, "Yes." The devils that are accompanying him will take the form of his parents and after resembling his parents will say to him, "Oh child believe in him and follow him, he is your Lord.' The Bedouin will be deceived and forced into believing him.** (Abu Umamah/Ibne Majah)

He will come to another Bedouin and say, "Will you believe in me as your Lord if I bring your camel back to life?" "Yes", he will reply. He will make a figure for him like his camel, which will have a beautiful odour and a big hump.** (Asma-b-Yazeed /Mishkat)

He will have water and fire with him. As for that which the people will see as water, in reality will be fire, which will burn and as for that which people will see as fire, in reality will be cold, sweet water. The Prophet's* advice is: "Whoever meets the Dajjal and sees the water and the fire, he should fall in the fire and not the water, as the fire in reality is water and the water in reality is fire.'' (Hudaifah/Mishkat)
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*
*


Believers in Allah will face hardship while The believers in Dajjal will temporarily rejoice


He will come to people and tell them he is Allah and they will believe him. The sky on his order will pour rain and the earth will grow crops for these people. Their animals will graze on his land and return to them in the evening with large udders and their flanks full. He will then proceed to some other people and call them but they will refuse to believe him. Without forcing them he will leave and carry on with his mission. However, when these true believers wake up in the morning they will find that they are penniless and all their properties have been destroyed.** (Nawwas-b-Samaan/Muslim)

The Earth will disclose treasure at his command
Passing by a place in ruins, he will order it to take out its hidden treasure. The earth will immediately take out its hidden treasure. The earth will immediately take out its treasure and the treasure will literally follow him wherever he goes* like bees following the queen bee.** (Nawwas-b-Samaan/Muslim)
*

Dajjal faces Opposition
On hearing about the Dajjal a true believer will head towards him. However, on the way he will be stopped by Dajjal's soldiers and asked where he is intending to go. Replying that he is going to meet the person who claims that he is Allah, the soldiers doubting him will ask, ''Do you not believe in our Lord (Dajjal)?'' He will reply there is nothing hidden about our Lord Allah so how can I take Dajjal as my Lord. Angry at his reply they will decide to kill him. But all of a sudden one of them will say, ''Hasn't our Lord (Dajjal) prohibited us from killing anyone without his permission?" Thus they will take him to the Dajjal. On seeing the Dajjal he will shout, "O people this is the Dajjal the Prophet* mentioned and warned the believers of". Dajjal will order to kill him. He will be placed on his belly and severely beaten. He will be asked, "Do you still not believe in him?" "No! You are the lying Dajjal" he will reply. The true believer will then be sawn into two pieces, the Dajjal will walk in between the two pieces and address him, "Stand up." The true believer will become alive and stand up in one piece. Yet again he will be asked, "Do you now believe in me?" He will reply, "It has only added to my insight concerning you that you are really the Dajjal." The believer will then proclaim, "O people he will not be able to do anything to any man after me." The Dajjal angry at his refusal will grab hold of him and place a knife between his neck and throat to slaughter him but he will be unsuccessful as Allah will place copper in that area and the knife will find no way to penetrate. The Dajjal will grab hold of his hands and legs and throw him into the fire. However, the fire will turn into a pleasant garden for him. This person will be the greatest martyr in the eyes of Allah and achieve the highest position due to his first death, which was caused by severance of the body in two pieces.(Abu Saeed al-Khudri /Muslim)
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*

Dajjal's Trickery
Doctors and surgeons are not able to restore the eyesight of those born blind or cure the leper. Dajjal will be able to cure those born blind, restore their eyesight and cure the leper.* (Abdullah-b-Mugaffal-Kanzul-Unimal)

Dajjal's Greed
He will have a mountain of bread with him but he will only give bread to those that believe and follow him.** (Jabir-b-Abdullah-An-Nihaya)

Dajjal Lures the Women
The Dajjal will make a stop at a place called Markanat, near Taif. On hearing about his arrival the womenfolk will rush towards him, the men will be forced to tie their mothers, daughters, and sisters fearing they will believe in him and get caught up in fitna.** (Ibne Umar-Musnad Ahmad)
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Safe Haven of Makkah and Madinah


The Dajjal will remain on earth for 40 days, the first of which will be a year long, second a month , the third a week, and the remaining 37 days like our normal days, moving from city to another causing fitna1. Finally he will proceed towards Makkah and Madina2 but he will be unable to enter these holy cities, Masjid Tur and Masjid al-Aqsa3. Every time he tries to enter these holy places, angels guarding these holy cities with swords in their hand will encounter him and chase him away, leaving Dajjal stationed behind Uhud4. Meanwhile, earthquakes will hit Madinah thrice and all the hypocrites will be forced to leave5.
*

Footnote:
1) Nawwas-b-Samaan / Muslim
2) Fatimah-b-Qais / Muslim
3) Junaid-b-umaiya / Al-Fathur-Rabbani
4)Abu-Huraira / Bukhari
5)Amr-b-Sufyan / Ad-Darrul-Manthur
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Death


*Losing hope of entering these holy places, Dajjal will turn towards Syria. Imaam Mahdi will already have arranged a Muslim army and will be on the verge of leading the Muslims in morning prayer when Prophet Jesus will descend and Kill the Dajjal. (Usamah / Ibne Majah)
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Protection from Dajjal


Reciting of Surah - Kahf
The recitation of Surah Kahf is a safe guard from the Dajjal's turmoil. The Prophet (s) said, "Whoever memorises the first ten verses of Surah Kahf will be safe from the Dajjal's Fitna."** (Abu-Darda / Muslim)

The Prophet* said, 'Whoever meets the Dajjal amongst you then he should recite the opening verse of Surah Kahf onto him."*** (Nawwas-b-Samaan / Muslim)

Seeking refuge in Allah
Whoever seeks Allah's refuge and protection from Dajjal's fitna especially in Salah, Inshallah will be protected.
The Prophet* would pray in Salah, "Oh Allah protect me from the punishment of the grave and protect me from Dajjal's fitna."** (Aisha / Bukhari / Muslim)

Staying miles apart
When the Dajjal appears one should stay as far away from him as possible. The Prophet* said, "Those who hear about the Dajjal should stay far from him. By Allah! A person will approach him thinking him to be a believer, but on seeing his amazing feats he will become his follower."* (Imran-b-Hussain / Abu Daud)
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Safe Haven of Makkah and Madinah
*One should try to migrate to Makkah or Madinah, as he will not be able to enter these two holy cities. Thus one will be protected from his fitna.* (Fatimah-b-Qais / Muslim)

Knowledge of* Allah's Attributes
One should seek Islamic knowledge especially knowledge of Allah's attributes. By possessing knowledge of Allah's attributes one will not be misled by the Dajjal. This knowledge teaches that Allah is perfect, can't be seen, and not in need of anything while the Dajjal is imperfect, can be seen by both believers and non-believers and in need of food and water.
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Return Of Prophet Jesus*


Brief History of Prophet Jesus
***** Due to the fact that the Jews had become deaf and blind to the words of God and deviated from the teachings of Moses and the right path, Allah honoured Jesus with Prophethood and sent him as a messenger to the children of Israel. Bearing all hardships Prophet Jesus spent all day and night conveying the message of Allah. Unfortunately, in spite of his tremendous effort the children of Israel did not respond and accept the message. Seeing that the poor and weak were becoming inclined towards him and fearing they would lose their leadership the Jews secretly tried to kill him. However Allah saved Prophet Jesus* from their wicked scheme and gave him greater dignity by raising him alive to the heavens.

Allah says in the Quran, "They did not kill him and nor did they crucify him but the resemblance of him (Jesus*) was put over another man and those who differ there in, are in doubt. They have no certain knowledge. They are following nothing but conjecture for surely they did not kill him but Allah raised him up to him." (Surah Nisa)

Allah says in the Quran "When Allah says, Jesus; I will take thee to me and I will purify thee of the unbelievers" (Surah A'li-Imran)

These verses clearly prove that the Jews did not kill Prophet Jesus and that he was raised alive to the heavens. It is due to verses like those mentioned above and many authentic Ahadith we Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus is alive in heaven at this moment in time. We further believe due to the following verses and authentic Ahadith that Prophet Jesus will return before Qiyamah and his return is a major sign of Qiyamah.
* Allah says in the Quran, "And he (son of Mary) shall be a known sign for (the coming of) the hour."****** (Surah Zukhruf)
*** Ibne Abbas has said that the meaning of this verse is that Prophet Jesus's*descent before Qiyamah is a sign of Qiyamah. (Ibne Abbas/ Musnad)

Allah says, "There is not a single section of the people of the book that will certainly believe in Jesus before his death and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them." (Surah Nisa) This verse clearly indicates that before the demise of Prophet Jesus everyone from the people of the book will believe in him. The Jews will disappear as Jews after his demise but at the present the Jews are very much there. The conclusion is clear that the Prophet Jesus*has not died; if so all the Jews would have become believers, which they have not. He will return before Qiyamah and it is then that all the people of the book will believe in him.

Jabir (R.A) reported that the Messenger of Allah said, "A party of my followers will not cease to fight for victory until the Day of Resurrection. He said, then Jesus, son of Mary, will come down. Their Imaam will say, "Come and lead our prayer" He will reply, "Some of you are rulers over others on account of divine honour upon these people."*** (Muslim)

Abu Huraira (R.A) reported that the Messenger of Allah* said, "By the one whose hands my life is in, surely the son of* Maryam() will descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will destroy the cross, kill the swine and abolish the tax."** (Bukhari)

Hadrat Hudaifah-b-Osaid reported: The Holy Prophet* suddenly came to us while we were talking. He asked, "What are you talking about?" They replied "We were talking about the last hour." Prophet (s) said, "It will never come until you see ten signs before it," He then mentioned the Smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the Rising of the Sun in its place of setting, the Descent of Jesus son of Mary and Yajuj and Ma'juj.* (Muslim)
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Prophet Jesus's* Tasks


Prophet Jesus will have three main tasks, when he descends on the Earth for the second time:
1)* The first and most important will be that he will destroy the Dajjal.
2)* Protect the Muslims from the barbarous tribes of Yajuj and Majuj by taking them to Mount Tur and then Praying for their (Yajuj and Majuj's) destruction.
3)* Reign as a Khalifh according to the Quran and Sunnah and elevate Islam.
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Prophet Jesus's* descent and
the killing of Dajjal


The Dajjal having failed to enter the holy city of Madinah will proceed to Syria gathering his forces on the way.
Imaam Mahdi will have arranged the Muslim army and will be on the verge of leading the Muslims in the morning prayer (Abu Umamah / Ibne-Majah) when Prophet Jesus will descend to the white Minaret (Nawwas-b-Samaan/Muslim) in the east of Damascus, wearing two garments died with saffron, placing his hands on the wings of two angels.
All those that are present will recognise him, as he will look exactly like the description of the Prophet*. Resembling the Sahabi Urwa bin Masood (Abu- Huraira/ Muslim) the colour of his skin will be reddish white (Ibne Abbas/ Bukhari), he will be well built and his hair will be soft and reach his ears. When he lowers his head, beads of perspiration will fall from it and when he raises his head, beads like pearls will scatter from it.** (Nawwas-b-Samaan/Muslim).
Every Kaafir who smells his sweet breath will die and his breath will reach as far as he can see. On seeing prophet Jesus. Imaam Mahdi will take a couple of steps backwards so Prophet Jesus can lead the prayer however Prophet Jesus will place his hands on the Imaam's shoulder and will say, ''Go forward and lead the prayer as the Iqamah was made for you'' thus Imaam Mahdi will lead the prayer.** (Abu Umamah/ Ibne-Majah).

After the prayer Prophet Jesus will say, ''Open the gate''. The gate will be opened and the Dajjal will be waiting behind it accompanied by an army of 70,000 Jews, each armed with a sword and shield. The Dajjal on seeing Prophet Jesus among the Muslims will begin to dissolve like salt in water and will begin to flee. Prophet Jesus will say to him, ''You will remain alive until I strike you with my spear, ''He will catch up with him at the Eastern gate of Ludd (Ludd is a mountain in Syria. Some say that it is a village in Jerusalem, and some say that it is a village in Palestine) and then Prophet Jesus will kill him with a small spear.
* The Muslims will thereafter defeat and wipe out Dajjal's army. The Jews will not be able to hide behind anything on that day. Every time they try to hide behind a stone, a wall, a tree (except a boxthorn tree), or animal. Allah will make these things speak and they will say, ''O servant of Allah there is a Jew hiding behind me. come kill him.''
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[Ahmed Waheed]

Assalam . . .

:cool: I hope I'm not interrupting, but I think we need to worry more about his coming, not location. Are we strong enough to not be over-come by him (Dajjal). Allah know's best.

Wassalam . . .

[razwan1979]

May I ask what revelance this has to science?

"Science has nothing to say about some man living off in the jungle on an island."

In fact it does. "Some man living off in the jungle on an island" cannot live for 1400 years according to "science".

Salaam 'alaykum

[Nadeem]

i'm not sure that it's obvious, though i take your point :) didn't i also read that Dajjal would only be on earth for something like 40 days? hmm... i could be confused in that regard.

i'm afraid that you use of the term "westernized" doesn't actually communicate much to me, you see, from where i sit, Saudi Arabia is "the west" :) do you mean to indicate political alliances, military alliances, culture, religion, literature.. not to be obtuse, but i really have a hard time using directions as indicators of things other than directions ;)Peace Vaj,

Yes he will be on Earth for forty days(periods of time),the first being a year,the second a month,the third a week and 37 of which will be 24-hour days.:cool: :)

Come on Vaj even the Europeans and all their counterparts call their culture 'western'.;)
By the term 'western' I am talking about the power and culture of the "white" Europeans including that of wherever else they settled(North/South America,Australia,New Zealand,South Africa).:cool: :)

Wasalaam.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

May I ask what revelance this has to science?


The intention was to determine if Dajjal could be located using a scientific understanding/technology of geography.

[Vajradhara]

Salaam Nadeem,

thank you for the post.


Peace Vaj,

Yes he will be on Earth for forty days(periods of time),the first being a year,the second a month,the third a week and 37 of which will be 24-hour days.:cool: :)
oh.. are you saying, then, that there will be 40 seperate periods of time, not as we understand a 24 hour revolution of earth around Sol? interesting.



Come on Vaj even the Europeans and all their counterparts call their culture 'western'.;)

they can call it "pink" for all i care, doesn't make them correct :) it is, however, just a bit of some ethnocentric ideations which we've seen the Europeans impose upon other countries when they've arrived.



By the term 'western' I am talking about the power and culture of the "white" Europeans including that of wherever else they settled(North/South America,Australia,New Zealand,South Africa).:cool: :)

Wasalaam.
oh... just caucasian peoples?

have you read the remarkable book "the Journey of Man" by Spencer Wells?

[Nadeem]

oh.. are you saying, then, that there will be 40 seperate periods of time, not as we understand a 24 hour revolution of earth around Sol? interesting.


they can call it "pink" for all i care, doesn't make them correct :) it is, however, just a bit of some ethnocentric ideations which we've seen the Europeans impose upon other countries when they've arrived.


oh... just caucasian peoples?

have you read the remarkable book "the Journey of Man" by Spencer Wells?Peace again Vaj,

No,you misunderstood.:)
The Arabic word 'yaum'(day) does not necessarily always mean 24-hour period,but it can often mean any other defined or undefined period of time.
Could be weeks,months,years or even eons.
This does'nt mean that the Earth will take any more or less time to orbit the sun(365.25 24-hour days) or revolve about it's axis(24-hours).:cool: :)

So that means that the Dajjal will rule for 1 year(365 days),1 month(29 or 30 days),1 week(7 days) and 37 days(24-hour periods).:cool:
I hope you thoroughly understand it now.:)

Actually the word 'pink' is used by homosexuals as a term for their "culture".:)

Yes I mean just the caucasian peoples and not the aboriginals of those continents which the Europeans conquered.:cool: :)

No,I have'nt read that book,why what is it about?:confused: :)

Regards.

[Vajradhara]

Salaam Nadeem,

thank you for the post.


Peace again Vaj,

No,you misunderstood.:)
The Arabic word 'yaum'(day) does not necessarily always mean 24-hour period,but it can often mean any other defined or undefined period of time.
Could be weeks,months,years or even eons.
This does'nt mean that the Earth will take any more or less time to orbit the sun(365.25 24-hour days) or revolve about it's axis(24-hours).:cool: :)
this is what i was thinking that you meant to say. i.e. 40 "days" does not mean a 40 revolutions of the earth around the Sun.



Actually the word 'pink' is used by homosexuals as a term for their "culture".

just a color for me, though.



Yes I mean just the caucasian peoples and not the aboriginals of those continents which the Europeans conquered.:cool: :)

No,I have'nt read that book,why what is it about?:confused: :)

Regards.
ah.. well... the book is about the genetic traits that human males share. i'm not too keen on ethnocentric ideations, for the most part.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

not as we understand a 24 hour revolution of earth around Sol?
Vaj, i may be wrong, but I believe you mean rotation instead of revoloution, no?
I have yet to hear of a 24-hour revolution around the sun.


Anyway, i understood this issue to be referring to the rotation of the Earth slowing down.

[Vajradhara]

Vaj, i may be wrong, but I believe you mean rotation instead of revoloution, no?
I have yet to hear of a 24-hour revolution around the sun.


Anyway, i understood this issue to be referring to the rotation of the Earth slowing down.
hehe... yes, i'm sure you are correct :)

if the earth was to slow down it's rate of revolutions, what do you suppose would happen to the magnetic field?

[Guest]

If the Earth was to slow down, even the most minimal amount, the results would be catastrophic.

[Yahya Sulaiman]

A revolution is in this sense the act of revolving.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=revolution

[Al-Boriqi]

Intresting post.

it was said


well... sure... it could be a metaphor. to be honest with you, i've been told two different things regarding how Muslims view Al Qur'an, one wherein things are metaphor and similie and another view where everything is as it literally states.

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Quran). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book (and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments, etc.), Al-Faraid (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)); and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabaree). (Chapter #3, Verse #7)

So when it comes to ambiguity then if their is no explanation for it in the hadeeths then it is not to be considered absolute truth for whatever statements that man comes up with.

as for constantinople then I beleive the story or hadeeth states that he will come after the muslims conquer it twice (for the second time).
as for him the dajjal then he is a real human upon the will of Allah. He has speacial abilities that allow him to do things not any human can due. The rising of the sun in the west is also literal as it was understood by the companions of Allah's messenger to be as such. Another proof for it being literalo is that the prophet said "When the sun rises in the west, then tawbah (repentence)is not accepted". So it is not allegorical were people can interpret to mean different things. So when the sun actually physically rises in the west is when all the disbeleivers and atheists are going to know that what we came with was the al-haq (the truth) but something this evident is to late. The purpose of beleiving was to have faith. So this is why repentance is over once the sun rises in the west.

again it was asked by (i forget who) that if everyone will regognize the mark ka fa ra (in arabic script). oh bothers and sisters in Islam, you all know the arabic script and how it can made into shapes, images, and the most beutiful of styles and calligraphy, so it can happen that the arabic script ka fa ra can be all connected to one way in the shape of the cross. And on top of this the story or narration also contains the wording "every muslim will know it even it they are illiterate" So it is not something that we would have to read, it is something that we know to be pure kufr and what kufr is like the cross. Im not saying this is absollute haq but it is a mighty possibility because the first and main group of people to side with him are the nasaarah and since they are dhaal lin, then it is as it is. of course the other groups will be the yahood as they prepared for him, and the khawarij (those infected with takfeer of the muslims and revolutions or overthrowing governments" and I beleive the shi'a but m not sure about the last.

as for this topic being amongst the science topics then this is not in the correect place rather it falls under beleifs or something like this since there is nothing scientific about a man living long before our time and even before Muhammad. The story doesn say when the dajjal was born or created so his beginning is with Allah and it could be much much longer than just 1400 years and Allah knows best.


asalam

[newtmf]

I know this may sound strange, but I think Bush might be Dajjal.Please let me know from where Dajjal will emerge if Bush isn't dajjal and the events that will tale place during the return of Prophet Isa

[The_Other_Admin]

Dajjal is suppose to come after Mehdi, and before Mehdi the forces will compile against the muslims in Syria or around Syria. In that sense, Bush can't be Dajjal.

[Yahya Sulaiman]

Like Bush could EVER be al-Dajjal! :lol: The Dajjal is supposed to be a tricksy, seductive, worldwide deceiver of believers. Bush can't even convince people that he's not out to give more money to the rich however he *(or should I say Cheney?) tries, and he's such an incompetent schlob that he can't even get the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" right. :borgsmile

Fool me once, shame on, shame on you...Fool me twice...You fool me, you can't get fooled again. --G.W.B.

[Nadeem]

www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html#dajaal (http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html#dajaal).:)



Salaam newtmf,

Please visit the above web-link for all information about the Dajjal and the events around his time of coming.:)

Wasalaam.

[syedhs]

Salam all,

IMHO, Bush is not Dajjal but both Bush Sr and Bush Jr are seen by some people, through a bit of research that they are linked to some secretive society which may have Dajjal influence. We can all see that both Bushes are rather agressive in colonializing other countries.. compared that with Clinton or previous presidents.. From what I read, the logical explanation is Dajjal is roaming on the earth already, but he most probably will appear to the world as a charismatic leader, definitely not the one with one eye - yet. A leader with one bulging eye out will naturally not be able to amass a lot of supporters.. but then when the war between Mahadi and Israel happened, then he is revealed.. one eye.. ka-fa-ra stuff.

[Guest]

Fool me once, shame on, shame on you...Fool me twice...You fool me, you can't get fooled again. --G.W.B.

Haha! That is just toooooooo funny! :toofunny: LOL!

[Yahya Sulaiman]

I know, Sheikh. I still laugh at it when I bring it up myself. To think that our country's executive branch should be run by such a man...it's like a sit-com. Constant entertainment from this guy!

EDIT: There actually was a short-lived sit-com mocking the Bush family here in America called "That's My Bush!" It was hilarious. I am not surprised that it was on air for the short time it was.

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Fool me once, shame on, shame on you...Fool me twice...You fool me, you can't get fooled again. --G.W.B.

Haha! That is just toooooooo funny! :toofunny: LOL!

Did he really say that???

I wish I could have seen him say that. That would be twice as funny.

[Osman]

"It's a time of sorrow and sadness when we lose a loss of life."—Washington, D.C., Dec. 21, 2004 :confused:

[Ratatosk]

Salam,

Did he really say that???
Yea, here (http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/multimedia/foolbush.mov) it is, in all its' glory. For that extra laugh, check out the sedated kid in the background, enduring all this nonsense with a stoic calm.

As a friend o mine -- who's making his living as a stand-up, keeps quoting ad nauseam, 'it's easy being a stand-up comedian, you've got the government working for you'. I've heard it too many times to pay it no nevermind, but it is quite true, anyhoo.

peace

[Osman]

LOL!!!! :lol: :lolwhack:

[Ansar Al-Haq]

lol.. :toofunny: thanks Ratatosk. What was the event?

And he never said 'fool me twice'.

[MosesFreeman]

I heard someone once say that television is the dajjal (one-eyed liar).

[Nadeem]

Hey Moses,

I'm sure it can lie sometimes but it can also tell the truth at other times!:)
I wonder who said that it was the Dajjal though?:confused:

Peace and regards.

[unrealdigital]

I heard someone once say that television is the dajjal (one-eyed liar).hadith will prove that to be incorrect.
Some sailors in Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) time saw Dajaal with the OWN eyes. (Off an Island, after a storm brought them ashore)

There is a hadith about this...


So he is a real person.

[Nadeem]

Salaam unrealdigital,

Well off course nobody took it seriously that T.V. was the Dajjaal!:cool: :)
We have discussed that hadith in the earlier stages of the thread and it is well known that he is a real person.:)
Thanks for refreshing our memories though.:p

Wasalaam.

[Supernova]

Oh ALLAH save ous from the fitnah of Dajjal

[unrealdigital]

Salaam unrealdigital,

Well off course nobody took it seriously that T.V. was the Dajjaal!:cool: :)
We have discussed that hadith in the earlier stages of the thread and it is well known that he is a real person.:)
Thanks for refreshing our memories though.:p

Wasalaam.Well, just making sure.
But we must remember that Dajaal is something us Muslims should prepare for and its a serious topic. :o

Salaam.

[Roswell]

Well, just making sure.
But we must remember that Dajaal is something us Muslims should prepare for and its a serious topic. :o

Salaam.

I don't think so. Well, the Qur'an explicitly teaches us to prepare for the Judgement day only and tells us the way how to get success in hereafter and in this world as well. We all are here for being tested by God and God warns us to prevent from what He doesn't like, in this regard, He has listed out some nation's critical faults in order to explain what exactly He wants and can do as well. He has showed what is a natural calamity through which He warns. Seeing from this systematic appraoch, the Qur'an could have mentioned about Dajjal 'calamity'.......Seeing from this perspective, Dajjal's arrival will not affect my life anyway, though I don't think hes really coming. It's not an essential part of the belief to be muslim.

Regards,

[vinod]

Salam Roswell

Some Quranic exegesis have it that the verse - "Qul aoudhu bi Rabil falaq" refers to protection against the Dajjal.

What say you? Pls don't ask me to present the sources :D I only happened to read about them somewhere, someplace :D

Just keep this thought in the back-burner. That's all.

Was-salam
Vinod

[Roswell]

Salam Roswell

Some Quranic exegesis have it that the verse - "Qul aoudhu bi Rabil falaq" refers to protection against the Dajjal.

What say you? Pls don't ask me to present the sources :D I only happened to read about them somewhere, someplace :D

Just keep this thought in the back-burner. That's all.

Was-salam
Vinod

W.salaam,
You are referring Surah Al-Falaq, verse # 1 which is,

"Say: I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn"

But I think you are referring verse # 2,

"From the mischief of created things;"

How does you connect this verse with Dajjal ? Can you please explain it to me in detail ? To me, it's an individual's supplication that one should ask from God however the Dajjal thingy is more broader to its own extent as if It's suppose to affect the entire world.

Thanks,

[unrealdigital]

Seeing from this perspective, Dajjal's arrival will not affect my life anyway, though I don't think hes really coming. It's not an essential part of the belief to be muslim.

Regards, That may be your viewpoint.

But I take the viewpoint of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) who tells his ummah to prepare for Dajaal.

Please, keep your opinions to yourself unless they correlate with the teachings of Islam.

[Roswell]

Salaam,


That may be your viewpoint.

But I take the viewpoint of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) who tells his ummah to prepare for Dajaal.

Please, keep your opinions to yourself unless they correlate with the teachings of Islam.

Only those beliefs are compulsory that are clearly established in the Qur'an....the fundamental difference between the Qur'an and the Ahadith. There is ambiguity in those Ahadith. You tell me, if I do not believe in coming of Dajjal and Jesus(pbuh) and Imam Mehdi then would I be called non-muslim ? Yes or no ?

Regards,

[vinod]

Salam Roswell

Jazakallah for keeping your cool in the face of a provocative post by URD

Salam URD


That may be your viewpoint.

But I take the viewpoint of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) who tells his ummah to prepare for Dajaal.

Please, keep your opinions to yourself unless they correlate with the teachings of Islam.

Pls drop your condescending tone in your post. It stinks with arrogance. Don't assume that you've got it all right and worked out while others who hold different views are lost in darkness, following their nafs or whatever. Be civil and academic in your response. Ask for proof and read the proof presented by the member before judging them as not following the Prophet or whatever. Present your evidence and the interpretation of it to support your views if necessary.

Hope you'll keep the above in mind

Was-salam
Vinod

[syedhs]

Salam all,

Vinod, I agree with you in totality. Dont proclaim that you are indeed in absolute right, unless if it is something very core, something very clear. Understand other people's point of view, and their effort in achieving the understanding which may be totally opposite from you.

[unrealdigital]

Whats going on here?

You guys don't believe the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) ?

In his sunnah it clearly tells us that Dajaal is going to be the hardest thing the muslim ummah is going to have to face.

whats with the arrogance? :confused:
If there is any arrogance here, it is with you people claiming your own falsified viewpoints.

[vinod]

Salam URD

I'm not taking a stand against your viewpoint. I'm taking a stand against your tone. Even if you think you have the truth with you, you can't simply go about accusing people of ignorance or ill-intentions in their viewpoints. You'll have to prove the truth of your stand. You get that? You'll have to disprove those viewpoints that you think are false. Simply asserting your viewpoint and vilifying others' viewpoint is not helping the discussion and makes for nothing but rude talk.

So, get your act together and start proving yourself.

And plz, for the love of God, stop villifying people.

Was-salam
Vinod

[unrealdigital]

Listen...

If somebody puts out wrong info about my religion, i'm going to say something about it.

I'm not gonna sit around and say "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..."
If somebody is wrong, then somebody has to tell them.


And concerning my "attitude" being negative, so be it. I have no shame in venting against people who post in ignorance.

-Omar

[vinod]

Salam Omar

Remember that those who hold different viewpoints also think that Islam is dear to them. Please, why do you think they differ with you only to malign Islam or out of ignorance? What makes you think they don't have arguments to support their stand? Why don't you take the effort to find out why they hold such views? It is precisely this attitude of yours that I'm against. I'm not saying you are wrong and they are correct. Hope you get that. You realize you are in a discussion forum. So, get discussing. Prove your stand and disprove (with reasoned arguments) others' stand. Don't just vent out else I'll have to vent you out of the forum in the interest of maintaining cordiality in the forum.

Was-salam
Vinod

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Don't just vent out else I'll have to vent you out of the forum in the interest of maintaining cordiality in the forum.
:eek:
:D

[unrealdigital]

Vent me out of the forum?
Go for it bro, you will lose nothing more than a muslim brother.

Allah will judge us all.

Salaam.

[vinod]

Salam URD

Your arrogance is preventing you from seeing the point I'm making. I won't ban you for insolent behavior against me in this exchange. I have nothing personal against you. But take note that I will, inshaAllah, not hesitate one bit in banning you if you make insolent remarks against any of the members here one more time. Your emotional and hypocritical appeal to brotherhood is not going to pacify me. You invoke it when your membership is at stake and you casually discard it when deriding fellow Muslims' viewpoints.

The civility and courtesy of the forum cannot be compromised for tolerating bald and uncalled for remarks from you. So, watch your words and take care. You are on my watchlist

Was-salam
Vinod

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Don't you think you're overreacting a little bit? Banning?

[vinod]

Salam Ansar

Perhaps, I'm not sure. As I said, I will not ban for anything said against me. But I will, if URD continues in the same tone with others. Just read his posts. There's no evidence provided, no arguments made; simply bald and unqualified comments on other's viewpoints. That's not constructive, is it?

Check out his statements -

it is with you people claiming your own falsified viewpoints

And concerning my "attitude" being negative, so be it. I have no shame in venting against people who post in ignorance.

Please, keep your opinions to yourself unless they correlate with the teachings of Islam.

Not a shred of evidence presented to back them up.

Was-salam
Vinod

[Ansar Al-Haq]

Not a shred of evidence presented to back them up.
Yes, but is that grounds for a ban?

[Yahya Sulaiman]

You invoke it when your membership is at stake nad you casually discard it when deriding Yahya's (a fellow Muslim) viewpoint.

I don't know if I would say unrealdigital derided me, but unrealdigital did indeed accuse me of the sin of innovation for no good reason. Other people here have taken much worse abuse from unrealdigital, no need to single me out.

[vinod]

Salam Ansar, Yahya

Is that grounds for a ban? I think so, if it is repeatedly done, inspite of reminders.

Yahya, I wasn't trying to single you out as the victim of URD, though that is how my posts in this thread may come across. Sounds like I was playing god-father to you. :D I know URD has picked others as well. Here they are -


are you guys retarded?
how are you gonna argue on such a point.

Islam owns your religions.

stop being a fanatic muslim...
why don't we wear veils while we post on the forums too?

Was-salam
Vinod

[unrealdigital]

Seems like I offended a few people.

So here is a monkey dancing to amuse you. :monkey:

[unrealdigital]

Salam Ansar, Yahya

Is that grounds for a ban? I think so, if it is repeatedly done, inspite of reminders.

Yahya, I wasn't trying to single you out as the victim of URD, though that is how my posts in this thread may come across. Sounds like I was playing god-father to you. :D I know URD has picked others as well. Here they are -



Was-salam
Vinod
Oh btw, I don't like to be taken out of context.
Either post the entire thread, or don't post a single quote of mine out of it. Thank you. :)

[vinod]

URD, Salam

Firstly, welcome back to the forum.

Secondly, I'm not going to continue an old argument. But I'm keeping a close eye on you. If I find your tone to be insulting (calling someone a retard, or trying to be smart-monkey ) you'll hear from me, inshaAllah.

Enjoy your stay on the forum and watch your words.

Was-salam

[SunYatSen]

In the Qur'an also mentioned the universe was created in Six days

[Hannahh]

Well..hmm. Boy...religion is like a bomb to some :)

Dajjal...there are thirty, not one :) mentioned anyway. And 40,000 messengers...most of them remain nameless to protect the innocent :)

Six Days? Well...what does it say about six days? You must start with the concept that God's time is not our time. In fact...God appears to be OUTSIDE of our time. No creator, no end...indefinite. Which is exactly where physicists will ALWAYS be left...at that particular door even if they manage to manufacture a mathematics that 'elegantly' proves that a single density expanded and continues to expand to its maximum and then contracts....unfortunately, just like Adam and Eve...the physicists have managed to come up with just another CREATION STORY and have the same limited vision as we all to in the TIME CONSTRAINED UNIVERSE. It is like a very large prison of the mind. We can't even walk backwards in it although Stephen Hawking would like to try! And I respect Hawking...his work is brilliant just in terms of his willingness to explore it.

The UNIVERSAL OBSERVER. A astrophysics/molecular physics description of a particle which observes in a reaction but does not participate in the reaction which leads to the idea of 'potential histories' and the 'many worlds' theories...all of them in concordance with Islamic understanding of God but with a different and secularized name: the Universal Observer. And truly science has become its own religion....try arguing with a hard core secular scientist....its easier to persuade a hard core (insert the name of your favorite hated religion here).

But six days in GOD's time..not ours. Which is a time we cannot understand because the limitations of our five senses. In fact...if there is a sixth sense we cannot imagine it because we have these miserable five senses only and they have absolutely limited our perceptions to 'the world'. As Wittgenstein would put it. And in the end of the Tractatus Philosophica...he leaves it at the end by saying: there are just some things you 'pass over' i.e. without being able to explain.

This is one of them.

[Hannahh]

However....if you want to believe God sent messengers to ALL people you must believe that he sent messengers to the scientists as well. That is why I support Dr. Khaleefa's assertions that the Koran has a numberical "ayat" or literally "proof" which can be used to compare and contrast the wonders of this world (not the next). If Khaleefa went off his rocker and declared that he was a messenger..that doesn't mean I throw the baby out with the bathwater! It doesn't matter to me one way or another what he professed to be...what matters is that I can see with my poor senses what the Koran can do with numbers. And it is mentioned in the Koran to study the differences between the odd and even. It is. In the bible (old Testament) you have the chapter called Numbers. I'd say that the message was sent to the scientists as well. Whether or not they as a whole possess the ability of faith (well they do when it comes to 'theories') is a matter of their cultural determined values most likely.

In the end though...that isn't what got Khaleefa assassinated. What got him assassinated was perhaps one of two things:

He noted that two lines of the Koran are extraneous by using the numbers.

He was onto something that is being used by technological scientists already but they don't talk about it...they wanted to keep the secret to themselves.

I think both motives are reasonable and one of them is correct.

[Hannahh]

Evidence of the thirty dajjal:

http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=450


Back some time ago...I was really going nuts because I thought, "yup, this is it"...i.e. the End of the World. I would ask muslims here and there, "What do you think?" And they'd say "yup, this is it". Then I asked my good buddy Jafar who I respect a great deal because of his conviciton and piousness...

He said "What? Are you kidding? NO ONE knows the hour."

And that was that. I was cured of this crazy fear of the end of TIMES and learned that what we don't know IS actually better for us. And that might include things about antichrists and dajjal.

[Layal]

Its difficult to read so many posts but this is a good topic.

Why so much confusion over the location of Dajjal? It is mentioned that he will appear in Asbahaan, Iran.

Below is a text from a very reliable and Saheeh book of Islamic supplications and rememberance of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).

"Among the great signs of the last hour and the greatest trials to befall on mankind, which every Porphet has warned about. Most of mankind will follow him. He will appear from Asbahaan, Iran at the time when Muslims will conquer Constantinople. He will be given special powers and will make the truth seem false and vice versa. He will claim to be righteous and then he will calim prophethood and finally divinity. From his features is that he will be blind in his right eye which is definate proof that contradicts his claim to be Allah as it is a sign of imperfection. the word Kafir will be written between his eyes which every believer, literate or illiterate will recognize".

First: It says when Muslims will conquer Constantinople (which is Turkey), Dajjal will appear. So that means there will be an invasion by the unbelievers and they will establish a stronghold in Turkey. Only later will the Muslims succeed and take over Turkey- another war?

Second: It says that all Muslims- illiterate and literate will be able to read the word Kafir. I inquired about this and a very scary thing was told to me. It seems ONLY Muslims whose faith is extremely strong will be able to see that word. Others will follow Dajjal no matter what is said to them- history repeats itself- the Muslims who believe in Dajjal will be like those unbelievers at the time of our Prophets (peace be upon them) and the ones who do not believe will be like the ones who followed the Prohphets.

What depresses me is the fact that after becoming devout Muslims, they (the Muslims) will believe in Dajjal and will take him to be Allah Almighty. At first this shocked me and now all I can do is only respect Allah's wisdom and knowledge because He is All Knowing, All Wise. I don't know why He wants to test us one last time. Maybe He knows that even after the numerous signs His servants will believe in something that is false.

[Hannahh]

Did you read what I posted?

Thirty dajjal. Not one.

I'd really like to see where this dajjal thing is coming from though....it just smacks of conspiracy theory and mania. NO ONE and I repeat...NO ONE knows what is going to happen nor has it been divulged. If you can't see that then you really need to start reading the Koran a bit closer and do some soul searching.

If anyone had such literal proof don't you think we'd all be very good muslims right now? I think so. I think anything this obvious would have sorted out our troubles long ago.

Lets just do a little math here:

Jesus said the time was soon and that has been over 2000 long years. Not much though when you consider eternity and the estimated age of the planet (18 billion years is it?). So 2,000 years is a relative figure. As relative as the north/south pole switch which occurs roughly q 500,000 years and we are already 200,000 years late for this one. 200,000 years late for an complete reversal of the poles. wow. Now there's a worry.

Although I can't really do anything about either thing now can I? Dajjal or pole shift. I can spread intelligent discourse however and hope to dissuade people from nonsense in Islam. This is just the sort of thing that got the Catholics in a tizzy.

So...stop trying to predict the future and causing fear. Islam is about comfort, not fear.

The devil is much closer than Constantinople. It is in people's hearts. And I think we'll all have a hell of a time getting him out of there :)

[Layal]

Did you read what I posted?

Thirty dajjal. Not one.

I'd really like to see where this dajjal thing is coming from though....it just smacks of conspiracy theory and mania. NO ONE and I repeat...NO ONE knows what is going to happen nor has it been divulged. If you can't see that then you really need to start reading the Koran a bit closer and do some soul searching.

If anyone had such literal proof don't you think we'd all be very good muslims right now? I think so. I think anything this obvious would have sorted out our troubles long ago.

Lets just do a little math here:

Jesus said the time was soon and that has been over 2000 long years. Not much though when you consider eternity and the estimated age of the planet (18 billion years is it?). So 2,000 years is a relative figure. As relative as the north/south pole switch which occurs roughly q 500,000 years and we are already 200,000 years late for this one. 200,000 years late for an complete reversal of the poles. wow. Now there's a worry.

Although I can't really do anything about either thing now can I? Dajjal or pole shift. I can spread intelligent discourse however and hope to dissuade people from nonsense in Islam. This is just the sort of thing that got the Catholics in a tizzy.

So...stop trying to predict the future and causing fear. Islam is about comfort, not fear.

The devil is much closer than Constantinople. It is in people's hearts. And I think we'll all have a hell of a time getting him out of there :)

Hannah, I suggest you read closely what I have posted. I did not say anything about the thrity Dajjals. Infact, I was not even replying to your post. I spoke of the Dajjal that will be visible at the Last Hour.

Secondly, I am not predicting anything. I mentioned clearly that my post contains statements from a Saheeh Islamic publication backed by Islamic evidence. But you fail to comprehend that.

Thirdly, I am not causing fear. I have spoken what is a fact. Yes, Islam is about comfort but when the Last Hour arrives there will be no comfort. Allah will not accept our pleas for forgiveness because He gave us enough time to beg for his mercy, forgiveness and blessings. It is the time when the truth will dawn upon muslims and non-muslims [ref. Pharoah and his people].

Fourth, I do not need to do any soul-searching, Hannah.I suggest you read the Quran more to comprehend better what I have posted. You say no one knows what is going to happen.Well then, why did Allah, in His Book- the Quran, mention the 'End of the World' signs amongst other things? Most of the signs are evidently taking place. You see Hannah, Allah has revealed to us what He feels needs to be revealed to His servants and hidden some things which are not meant for us to have knowledge of.

Hope I have made my point clear. I will not argue with you anymore for I have proved what I said in my post(s).

[Hannahh]

Peace to you and sorry if that was heavy handed. Let me clarify:

The "Anti Christ" is a Judeo-Christian concept and it is being confused with this concept of "Dajjal".

I said Thirty Dajjal, not you. You say the single "Dajjal". I'm not an expert but what I can tell you is that all my references have indicated thirty dajjal and I posted a link to a fellow so that you can see I'm not the only one who knows of the Thirty Dajjal or "liars". Liar is my understanding of the transliteration of the word, Dajjal.

When I say read the Koran...I mean...keep reading it. I know you've already read most of it or all of it but it is a continuous process. When a person has a question I think they should seek it out thoroughly so they avoid confusion OR they should accept it as is and keep it to themself. Some things escape explanation. For me, the Dajjal is one of them. For you..maybe not!

The best thing would be to request others to clarify this...someone who has ample knowledge of Hadith (I do not) and I believe that this is where most of Dajjal knowledge comes from.

My comment however is directed at encouraging you not to confuse Judeo-Christian concepts (and yes, conspiracy theories regarding 'The Beast') with our own which tend to be much less fantastical and much more logical in their orientation.

I will share with you the danger as I see it if you have the time for a 'story'.

My brother is a hard core born again Xtian. Immediately after 9/11 I called each of my family members (I was in Riyadh at the time) to tell them my phone number, address, etc. should there be any immediate retribution on Riyadh itself (I was pretty frightened to be honest). My brother and I got into a lengthy discussion and he was pretty much cursing "my" God as opposed to "his"...I was trying to make him see they are one and the same.
He was really losing it and told me that he already had a gun in his closet and was ready to kill himself and his family WHEN he saw the BEAST come out of the ground as predicted. THIS is why this particular topic is of interest to me because I've actually see in real life how an idea of "theirs" is making its way into OUR practice and discussion as muslims.

So no offense to you and I hope you see my point and hope we BOTH receive clarification on this issue. It is an important one...as they all are.

Salaam wa alaikum Layal. Double :)

[Jannah81]

Assalamu Alaykum dear brothers and sisters, be you Muslim, Christian or Jew :)

I would like to ask MULE to read or download a debate held by Dr. Zakir Naik titled "Qur'an & Bible in the Light of Science." Here Dr. Naik gives more than enough evidence to suggest that the Bible is scientifically flawed. Good arguements are made from the Christian debater (forgive me I forget his name), however they are proved unfounded by Dr. Naik's thorough explanations. I encourage you all to follow the work of Dr. Zakir Naik, especially regarding comparative religion. May Allah (swt) grant us wisdom and strength of faith.

My salams to you all,

-Sami

[Jannah81]

Salams to you all,

I just came across a website that disgusted me. http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/dajjal.html

Don't ask me why I'm posting it here. I just wondered if anyone came across this. It amazes me how disrespectful and ridiculous people have the time to be these days.

Your brother,

-Sami

[Hannahh]

Hmm. This is not evidence. In fact I'd say these are hadith which lack the historical context that they are being presented in. I've read this before about the "one eyed" monster, the floating grape....

Did you ever read any historical battle about the earliest muslims? Several opponents of Mohamed were on a list called "the one-eye'd" because they had lost one of their eyes in battle. There are also who lost hands and limbs which were recorded also.

This is where a great deal of Islamic wisdom has gone astray...lacking in scholarship...hadith can appear to be what they are not. These hadith (knowing what I know now) are reflecting actual historical data regarding opponents to the faith who opposed it even after their conversion to Islam.

I'd love to find that information for you and I will try. But don't look at web sites such as the one you've posted to 'scare yourself'. :) When I was a little kid my mother always used to say I loved to scare myself and don't we all.

Peace

Searching:

Here you can find multiple articles focusing on One Eyed-ness....from the Bible to the Shia to the Anti Shia. I'm not going to pick and choose for you on this...you are free to do with it as you please.

http://www.google.com/custom?q=one%20eye&do_search=1&keywords=&cof=LW%3A245%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fal-islam.org%2Fred%2Fhtml%2F/images%2Flogo.gif%3BLH%3A44%3BAH%3Aleft%3BGL%3A1%3 BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fal-islam.org%3BAWFID%3Acf808f8fa7f43aa9%3B&domains=al-islam.org&sitesearch=al-islam.org&search_type=on&sid=411813395

That is one long link! I hope it works...if not you can search using key words like one eye in conjunction with: Shia, Sunni, Muwayiaa, Battle of Siffin or Badr (any of them), etc. You will eventually find what it is you are looking for.

For my part though I want to tell you something (if you don't already know) about the Arab culture. They have an afinity for describing people according to their deformity or their worst trait (and sometimes their best trait). A couple of examples....

My husband's brothers told me a secret way to anger my husband by calling him Abu Hanjali....Hanjal apparently was a vicious person/swordsman and on top of that, my husband's maternal grandfather was called Hanjal because he was abusive towards his children.

Another reference in the Nahj is to "the man with breasts" as one of the local leaders was called 'in those days'.

Look before you leap I say, look before you leap. The Dajjal most likely refers to folks already dead and gone and was meant to prophesize the very current future post Mohamed's(pbuh) death. Nothing more and nothing less.

What is happening though is that we as muslims have forgotten that we live in the mid 14th century our time. We are in a stage of myth making. Taking those actual data and constructing our own fantastic explanations of them.
You Sam have actually answered your own question by stating that the Bible is corrupted. Now...we as muslims are in the stage of corrupting the Koran with "tales of the ancients".

I've no doubt there is an actual Satan. But lets not confuse that with actual historical data which WAS associated with miraculous events into a blend of Biblical paraphenalia.

[newsX]

Salams to you all,

I just came across a website that disgusted me. http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/dajjal.html

Don't ask me why I'm posting it here. I just wondered if anyone came across this. It amazes me how disrespectful and ridiculous people have the time to be these days.

Your brother,

-Sami


Don't you believe that Shi'ism was a Jewish plot (http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/history_of_the_shia.htm) to overthrow Islam?

rgds

[Hannahh]

Well if I were alive 'back then' I'd call you a mischief maker :) and then I'd probably haul out my sword and do you a favor by sending you to meet your maker :)

But seeing as though we are living in different times (aren't we?) I'd say that what you ask is a complex question. Full of insight and interesting data all its own.

Back in Mohamed's (pbuh) time...there was a way of identifying a Jew. The muslims would dye their hair with henna. The Jews didn't do that sort of thing so anyone with red hair and red beard was a muslim. Nowdays...they still practice this in Saudi, Pakistan and some other places. The order to do this was given by Mohamed(pbuh) in a 'tradition' and revoked once the number of muslims was great enough to support jihad.

That some groups in Islam constantly refer to other groups as Jews is grounded in their ignorance. After all, muslims ARE either descendents of pagans or Jews...every one of them. Sadly enough they (we) have forgotten our ancestry with Adam(pbuh) as well. You don't even have to know the history of Jewish trading on the Arabian peninsula to grasp the logic of that argument.

I once was in a conversation with a Saudi worker in my hospital in Riyadh and he openly admitted that his grandmother claimed to being a Jew. I imagine he meant 'genetically' or 'lineologically' not as in 'practicing' Orthodox Judaism.

In any event, I might be actually part Jewish so you can call me a Jew if you like. I don't consider it an obscenity. My grandparents left Germany with the name Shomberg and cut off the 'erg to accomodate the persecution of the times, against Jews (and muslims..at one time we were all in the same religious persectution boat).

Hope this helps you, mischief maker :)

And peace to those who deserve it!

[Hannahh]

http://members.lycos.co.uk/amnuur/Dajjal.html

Thirty dajjal, one dajjal, superstitious advise...you name it.

My biggest problem with this whole thing is...what does it do for me as a muslim if I want to operate by using this fear?

For a muslim...there is no fear if one believes...no need to recite specific Suras (as in using them as secret spells)...there is no fear of death if one accepts the temporary nature of our bodies and soul. And certainly...I don't have to run away from a dajjal. If and when this leader of the liars shows up...IT IS ALREADY TOO LATE to decide my philosophy. THAT is entirely clear whether one wants to believe in the Mahdi or the Dajjal, both or not at all. Using the Dajjal to promote belief however isn't necessary and I don't think it particularly helpful. It borrows from Christian thinking and superstition.
It lends itself to making people look foolish in their predictions and people already mock Islam. We don't need to provide them ammunition if you know what I mean.

Perhaps it is this aspect of wanting to enjoy something scary, something crazy. Voodoo types of things. And I don't say that special crazy things don't happen to people individually to increase their faith. This isn't that kind of 'sign'. It is the unseen, pertains to the Hour (of which we know nothing about other than it is a time closer to us than our own skins) and the knowledge which is with Allah, not with us. I am tempted to say this is a built in facet of every religion...a tool to distinguish fact from fiction and believer from non. It may even be something that causes people to stray "too close" to the light if you will. And knowledge has always been a dangerous problem...that tree in the garden of Eden...that tree in particular has always been a problem.

[Hsan Khashim]

AAAAAGGGGRRRRHHHH!!!! :eek:

[Dhahabi]

Well if I were alive 'back then' I'd call you a mischief maker :) and then I'd probably haul out my sword and do you a favor by sending you to meet your maker :)

But seeing as though we are living in different times (aren't we?) I'd say that what you ask is a complex question. Full of insight and interesting data all its own.
In spite of the times your attitude is always the same and can be confirmed by the following link:
http://www.islamawareness.net/Deviant/Shia/shia-sunni.html
lies and deceptions:
http://www.ansar.org/english/exposingtaijani.htm
can you answer the following questions?
http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/challenge.htm



Back in Mohamed's (pbuh) time...there was a way of identifying a Jew. The muslims would dye their hair with henna. The Jews didn't do that sort of thing so anyone with red hair and red beard was a muslim.

It would have been better for you to have known your real founder:
http://forums.understanding-islam.org/community/showthread.php?t=1451&highlight=abdullah+saba

http://www.islamawareness.net/Deviant/Shia/the_truth_about_shiism.html


After all, muslims ARE either descendents of pagans or Jews...every one of them.
Well done you have just confirmed the above mentioned link. So you are their descendants and their followers, aren't you?
http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/shia_answering.htm
Even if you weren't you will be their followers knowingly or unkowingly:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/12th_imam_of_the_shiites_is_the_dajjal.htm


I once was in a conversation with a Saudi worker in my hospital in Riyadh and he openly admitted that his grandmother claimed to being a Jew. I imagine he meant 'genetically' or 'lineologically' not as in 'practicing' Orthodox Judaism.
The problem is that your beliefs are quite similar to them spiritually, namely:
- 12 tribes of israelites -------- 12 sectes shia twelvers
- the small black hat ---------- identical hat
- hatred to the sunnis -------- identical or even worse
- Ad-dajjal ---------- a locked imam in a cave[alleged mahdi]
-etc.


In any event, I might be actually part Jewish so you can call me a Jew if you like. I don't consider it an obscenity. My grandparents left Germany with the name Shomberg and cut off the 'erg to accomodate the persecution of the times, against Jews (and muslims..at one time we were all in the same religious persectution boat).
Abdullah bin Salaam that you curse, along with the other sahabas, was a jew who embrace islam. We sunnis respect him more that any shia from any race.


Hope this helps you, mischief maker :)

And peace to those who deserve it!

Your final statement contradicts what you said in the begining "Full of insight and interesting data all its own"
Rather, she is from the muwahiddun who don't worship shrines and tombs of their imams.
She is very tolerant person that deserves respect.

[Umar]

hmm ok, can some please tell me why do we waste so many hours discussing topics such as these ?

why should I or anyone care about the location of dajjal ? honestly if you are waiting to see a sign of 'qiyamat' then it's just sad. The day of judgement will come soon enough... not one of us has any sort of contract with Allah saying that we won't die before that day so I don't see how it makes a difference to know so much about the wherabouts of dajjal.

The moment we die, the moment our test is over. There is no going back afterwards to 'redo' the test.

So what is the gain or motivation behind discussing such things ?

[Hannahh]

You discuss such thing for various reasons. You correct such things because you are asked to correct misconceptions regarding Islam to others (muslims and non).

[Hannahh]

Dhahabi, you've no right to launch verbal rockets at me.

I'll tell you where I've been. I've been in a house and witnessed mortars explode next door. I've been in a house in hiding while katyshas were being launched from the upper floors towards Israel.

Where have you been?

[Hamza Ibrahim]

Salaam newtmf,

Please visit the above web-link for all information about the Dajjal and the events around his time of coming.:)

Wasalaam.

Is the hadith about the story of Hadrat Tamim Dari and the Dajjal sahih? And do we know without a shadow of a doubt that Tamim Dari was truthful and unmistaken? I say this because the dialogue of this supposed Dajjal makes him out to be very cognizant of his future misdeeds. He also refers to the Prophet almost respectfully (if I can say that) by calling him an "Apostle of Allah" and informs Tamim that "it is better if they follow him (the Prophet)". Then he enumerates the many events where he'll be prevented from coming into holy sites like Makkah, etc.

I don't know, it's just interesting. I always had the impression that the Dajjal was self-deluded and actually thought he was God. Here, it seems like he doesn't really think he is God, but he's just playing a part.

Anyone have any opinions about this hadith? And as always, Allah knows best.

[Hamza Ibrahim]

Is the hadith about the story of Hadrat Tamim Dari and the Dajjal sahih? And do we know without a shadow of a doubt that Tamim Dari was truthful and unmistaken? I say this because the dialogue of this supposed Dajjal makes him out to be very cognizant of his future misdeeds. He also refers to the Prophet almost respectfully (if I can say that) by calling him an "Apostle of Allah" and informs Tamim that "it is better if they follow him (the Prophet)". Then he enumerates the many events where he'll be prevented from coming into holy sites like Makkah, etc.

I don't know, it's just interesting. I always had the impression that the Dajjal was self-deluded and actually thought he was God. Here, it seems like he doesn't really think he is God, but he's just playing a part.

Anyone have any opinions about this hadith? And as always, Allah knows best.

I was thinking of my analysis of the hadith while I was driving back home today and I think I answered my own question. I think it would make sense that a person like the Dajjal would recognize the apostileship of Allah and still refuse Islam. After all, it's the staunchest disbelievers who fully recognize that the prophet is an Apostle of Allah but reject his knowledge. Abu Jahl once said ‘I know that he (Muhammed) is truly a Prophet. Nevertheless, we have so far competed with the Hashimites in everything. They have been boasting of providing food and water to the pilgrims. Now, if they begin to boast of having a Prophet, I will not be able to endure it at all." So perhaps the Dajjal recognizes the ultimate disbeliever in this regard, a person who openly recognizes the truth of Islam but still rejects it.

[Amjad]

Ansar Al Haq wrote:

We know from this hadith that he has been alive since the time of Muhammad pbuh.

Sydehs Wrote:

The book mentions the Al-Hadiths described by you in the first posting, and the conclusion is that the island is indeed Britain! They use the reasoning of the time frame mentioned there.. '1 month of sailing in the thunderstorm etc'.. and Britain is just about 1 month of sailing from Arab land..

And other wrote on Haddith telling us about the future........... What a load of rubbish.

Pls Read.


"Say (O Muhammad), 'I possess no power to benefit or harm even myself, except in accordance with God's will. (Nor do I know the future); had I known the future, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, as well as bearer of good news for those who believe.'" (7:188)

[Ron]

Peace Amjad,


"Say (O Muhammad), 'I possess no power to benefit or harm even myself, except in accordance with God's will. (Nor do I know the future); had I known the future, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, as well as bearer of good news for those who believe.'" (7:188)
Would you mind providing us with who the translator is? My reason for asking is I want to ascertain why this translator chose to put the words, "Nor do I know the future" in brackets as this has an impact on the meaning. Also, what is your understanding of this verse? Why was it revealed and what was its purpose? What are the implications? Does it include that God never revealed any future events to the Prophet (pbuh)?

Regards

[Guest]

Salaam Amjad

Another question. Have you ever read the life of the Prophet (pbuh)? I strongly believe that you must do that at some point in the present, not the future, for great fundamental facts like in waiting for you. And btw, if you havent read it, then I wonder how it is that you trust him for giving you your whole religion?

Regards

[Amjad]

Dear Ron Sorry for the late post,

Your coments

Would you mind providing us with who the translator is? My reason for asking is I want to ascertain why this translator chose to put the words, "Nor do I know the future" in brackets as this has an impact on the meaning. Also, what is your understanding of this verse? Why was it revealed and what was its purpose? What are the implications? Does it include that God never revealed any future events to the Prophet (pbuh)?

Regards

Well lets me give your translation you may be familar with for 7:187 7:188 this may answer your question

Yusuf Ali translation

7:187 They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you." They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: "The knowledge thereof is with God (alone), but most men know not."

Shakir translation

They ask you about the hour, when will be its taking place? Say: The knowledge of it is only with my Lord; none but He shall manifest it at its time; it will be momentous in the heavens and the earth; it will not come on you but of a sudden.

Pickthall translation

They ask you as if you were solicitous about it. Say: Its knowledge is only with Allah, but most people do not know. They ask thee of the (destined) Hour, when will it come to port. Say: Knowledge thereof is with my Lord only. He alone will manifest it at its proper time. It is heavy in the heavens and the earth. It cometh not to you save unawares. They question thee as if thou couldst be well informed thereof. Say: Knowledge thereof is with Allah only, but most of mankind know not.


Yusuf Ali translation

7:188 Say: "I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as God willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith."

Shakir translation

Say: I do not control any benefit or harm for my own soul except as Allah please; and had I known the unseen I would have had much of good and no evil would have touched me; I am nothing but a warner and the giver of good news to a people who believe.

Pickthall translation

Say: For myself I have no power to benefit, nor power to hurt, save that which Allah willeth. Had I knowledge of the Unseen, I should have abundance of wealth, and adversity would not touch me. I am but a warner, and a bearer of good tidings unto folk who believe.

Maybe you will agree that it is the knowledge of the future that is being discussed

[Ron]

Dear Amjad,

Thanks for the reply.

Well lets me give your translation you may be familar with for 7:187 7:188 this may answer your question
None of these translations have the parenthetical material which your translation has. Also, I am well aware of these translations, but they are not what I was looking for. I want the translation you quoted from. Please do provide me with it.

Regards

[Amjad]

Since you questioned the validity of the Trasnlation i posted i looked at it closeley and came to the conlusion that i should not use these trasnlation any longer. Hence they delay in my reply.

Further more you are right about parenthetical material as well, even though one can mean it to say "nor do i know the future", but I no longer believe that is safe deduction to make.

So Thank you for putting me right.

With regards to the thread in question , Dajjal, hadith about the future etc etc.

When you look at the other trasnlations that i have posted they give the same message. The Prophet Mohammed PBH is being told to say he does not know about the day of judgement or the unseen. Do you Agree?

[Aasem]

Assalam-o-Alaikum Br. Amjad,

Since you questioned the validity of the Trasnlation i posted i looked at it closeley and came to the conlusion that i should not use these trasnlation any longer. Hence they delay in my reply.

Further more you are right about parenthetical material as well, even though one can mean it to say "nor do i know the future", but I no longer believe that is safe deduction to make.
I have been following this discussion lately. I am just curious as whose translation is this from which you were refering previously. Only the name and edition of translation will do insha'Allah, even if there is no on-line copy. Jazak Allah.

wassalam
-Aasem