Prophets birthday?

[alan]

Simple Q,do we celebrate the prophets pbuh?
Some have said there is no evidence that the prophet,pbuh did,so we shouldnt.Then other say we do,is it called mawlid?

[Kabeer]

Simple Q,do we celebrate the prophets pbuh?

Salaams

Simple answer: up to you. Whether you do or not has nothing to do with following Islam.

Peace

[alan]

Ok,that makes sense.Todays Khutba,we was told its a definate no.
But I know alot do,so,in relation to this and iam aware that the date is fictitious(xmas) and that we are not condoning Christian shirk,but what,if anything is wrong in sharing the good tidings of the birth of prophet Isa,as,as a muslim and in knowledge of our truth about him?

[Kabeer]

Salaams alan,

I assumed you were talking about Prophet Muhammad, but it doesn't make a difference either way really.

You'll get those Muslims who celebrate his birthday and its a big celebration in their culture so they find it very important, and some even go as far to think its a religious obligation (its not). There are also those who hold a more rigid opinion and think that its an innovation and as such its haram (or that it had lead to many innovations).

As I said before its not part of the religion, its like anything else, you can do it as long as it doesnt involve anything prohibited, or leading to shirk. If you are trying to link this to a way of celebrating Christmas.... well you have to be honest in your mind what you are setting out to do. Are you following a tradition or really honouring the prophet.

If you are feeling like a long read: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543944

Peace

[alan]

Both,honouring a most beloved prophet and satisfying an element of culture.
P.S
I did origionally mean Mohammad,saw.

[Kabeer]

Salaams Alan,

Im not convinced that its a good thing to celebrate Christmas, to me it seems like you are just holding onto a superficial (only using this word due to what it has become in todays world, there are obviosly a smaller majority of people who still use the day for a more spiritual meaning) Christian tradition. If it is more than that, then I would like to pose the following questions to you;

Why would you want to do it on Dec 25th? And would you set aside days to celebrate the other prophets?

I currently do not have any real solid argument against it, so I dont want to speak up and say something when I can be wrong, just voicing an opinion (if im incorrect, please forgive me).

Peace.

[alan]

Salaams,
It appears that Mohammads,pbuh,birthday is celebrated extensively in Pakistan,is this a Christianisation,I wonder,from the days of the colonials,or was it celebrated long before the Brits went there?
Anyhow,people seem to enjoy it and it brings their Prophet to mind,so why not celebrate other prophets????

[lumumba_s]

As salamu `alaykum,

The Prophet's birthday is celebrated in more places than Pakistan, but yes, it is celebrated "extensively" there and much of the criticism that people have towards the excesses of its commemoration are because of the cultural excesses that have crept into the festivities. The mawlid is by no means a "Christianization" of Islam and most of those who associate the two, only do so by means of extremely superficial criterion.

The mawlid is commemorated every few months in many places, and even every Thursday in Yemen and communities that have been influenced by their scholars. I believe 2005 was the first year that I participated in mawlid gatherings, and I believe I had attended 3 that particular year. How it is celebrated depends a great deal upon whom is hosting it. In-of-itself, very few scholars have condemned it and it pre-dates Colonialism. It has nothing to do with Christmas and no one who has attended one hosted in a traditional manner would ever make such an assumption.

[DocW]

In my limited knowledge and humble opinion there are two areas of concern. Firstly, practices that were not either performed by the prophet pbuh himself or authorised have concerns of being Bidat or innovations.

Secondly such ceremonies seem to raise the status of prophet pbuh and raise concerns about hero worship which is different from the love and respect for prophet. In my opinion it is against the ethos of Islam.

If we have love and respect for prophet pbuh then the best way to show and express it is by following the message and Path that he has showed us and not in the way it is done atleast in Pakistan, where people sing religious songs, distribute sweets and have food festivities. In some areas they bring large gatherings onto the streets. None of these represent the ethos of Islam in any way. I do not know what happens in other countries.

[lumumba_s]

As salamu `alaykum,

Firstly, when the Prophet first entered into Medina, the entire city of believers, men, women and children burst into singing the now famous song, "Tala al-badru `alayna...." (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6200417476767355922&q=tala+al+badru+alayna&total=56&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2) and both singing in praise of the Prophet and poetry in his honor was a very common facet of early Muslim life. He both encouraged and accepted it in his presence. Songs and poetry composed by the Companions in praise of the Prophet were transmitted along with the rest of earlier Islamic literature to latter generations. Secondly, the fact that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) did not do something only establishes that it isn't obligatory. Thirdly, the Companions did things like collect his sweat, "fight" over the remnants of his wudu and even purposefully drink is blood on one occasion and I think those things are much more likely to be construed as "hero-worship" than a simple (or elaborate) gathering in commemoration of his existence.

If anything is an innovation, it is this idea that Prophet is ordinary and any public show of affection towards him is against the very "ethos" of Islam. Raising the Prophet's status is the very essence of Islam. The whole point of the mawlid is to help increase one's love for him and thus, one's desire and commitment to following his example.

Here (http://www.zaytuna.org/seasonsjournal/seasons6/2-4Final_Mawlid.pdf) is a short reflection on the mawlid that Imam Zaid Shakir wrote for Zaytuna's journal and the speeches (http://www.zikrcast.com/podcast/audio/MawlidAnNabi07.mp3) that both Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and Imam Zaid Shakir gave during a mawlid event that they held at Zaytuna earlier this year.

"Muhammad is a human being, but not like other human beings. He is like a precious jewel amongst stones."

[Hashim]

wa'salaam alaaykum,

Akhee Lumamba, I am sure you agree there is little benefit in discussing this age-old debate which more often than not leads the debators to yet another dead-end with no side budging.

First and foremost, as you aware of the numerous ahadeeth and ayaat from the Qur'aan as well as the unanimous consenus of the companions and early muslims prohibiting Bid'a in any way shape or form there is no need to waste time with the usual going through the motions act.

Secondly, the companions who loved Nabi (sallallhualaayhee'wa'salaam) more than you or I declined from celebrating the birthday, period. Allaah subhanhu'wa'ta'Allaah loved the messenger more than you and I and there is no legislation permitting this innovation, more over, Allaah azzawajjaal completed the deen as the Qur'aan categorically states so there is addition, subtraction or change.

Thirdly, the date inwhich the misguided deviants from the sufis and those who celebrate the 'mawlid' forget that the same day the prophet (sallalhualaayhee'wa'salaam) died, how can we celebrate the death of the greatest of mankind, the leader of Bani Adam and the greatest tragedy to ever befall this 'Ummaah.

Finally, the statement of the believers chanting the famous greeting when the prophet (sallallhu'alaayhee'wa'salaam) arrived at Madina al Munawara for the first time is a misconcpetion. There was not enough believers at Madina at this time as this was still the early stages of the Islaamic state of Madina and just after the culimation of the Muslim migration from Makka to Madinah. The scholars say it is more likely this took place when the prophet (sallallhualaayhee'wa'salaam) and his men came back to Madina from a successful military expedition, the battle of Tabuk if I am not mistaken.

The status of Muhammad (sallalhualaayhee'wa'salaam) does not require amplifying or raising excessively by you or the sufis as Allaah azzawajjaal raised him to a station of respect and global recognition.

'Do not praise me over exessively as the Christians over praised Isa, for I am only a messenger of Allaah, so instead call me slave of Allaah' (Saheeh Hadeeth).

And Allaah ta'ala knows best.

[lumumba_s]

As salamu `alaykum,
I am sure you agree there is little benefit in discussing this age-old debate which more often than not leads the debators to yet another dead-end with no side budging.You are absolutely right. There is no point in arguing over something that many fuqaha across madhahib have established as an legitimate expression of the ummah. "What an excellent innovation this is!" Have a nice day...

[DocW]

Quote:how can we celebrate the death of the greatest of mankind, the leader of Bani Adam and the greatest tragedy to ever befall this 'Ummaah.

Two points.Firstly In my limited knowledge and humble opinion death of the prophet pbuh wasnot the gretaest tragedy to befall this Ummah. It was Allah's percieved wisdom. Prophet pbuh had completed the task given to him and the test of Ummah had to begin. Prophet pbuh is awaiting the sucesful followers in Paradise.

Secondly, the Sahabha, practised religion as it should have been practised and loved the prophet pbuh as he should have been loved. The celebrations that take place today is by people and followers who have scant regard for the message and the religion itself. In many ways it mimics the celebration of X-mas by Christians.

[vinod]

The celebrations that take place today is by people and followers who have scant regard for the message and the religion itself

Not true. Even knowledgable people celebrate it.



In many ways it mimics the celebration of X-mas by Christians

And in many ways it does not.

The above two are not principled reasons to not celebrate it.

Regards

[Hashim]

Aslaam Alaaykum,

Actually Vinod the two points raised are valid points and solid arguments, brother Kabeer, you are absolutly right in this part of your post. I don't know how Vinod can claim knowledgable people celebrate this bid'a, if anyone disregards a fundamental command of the prophet (sallallhualaayhee'wa'salaam) there is something wrog with that persons Islaam, if anyone celebrates mawlid they have not got a iota of 'ilm or faith.

However Kabeer you erred in one of the points raised, the death of rasool'allaah (sallallhualaayhee'wa'salaam), remember the statment from his final sermon that after my (sallalhualaayhee'wa'salaam) death waves of fitnaa will strike this Ummaah.

Lumamba, I respect your self-constraint from pointlessly joining in this debate and this should be a example for all to see sense and leave debates as if we are learned scholars, you can do the same thing and save time by banging your head against a wall or try drawing blood from a stone.

And Allaah ta'ala knows best.

[alan]

As a relative newcommer to Islam,though not to "faith",isnt it a little extreme to say anyone who celebrates Mawlid,has not an iota of faith?

[Kabeer]

Aslaam Alaaykum,

Actually Vinod the two points raised are valid points and solid arguments, brother Kabeer, you are absolutly right in this part of your post................

However Kabeer you erred in one of the points raised, the death of rasool'allaah (sallallhualaayhee'wa'salaam), remember the statment from his final sermon that after my (sallalhualaayhee'wa'salaam) death waves of fitnaa will strike this Ummaah......

Walaikum Salaam brother,

I am unsure as to what you are referring to. I dont remember speaking about his death, so cannot see where I have erred. And also the reference to waves of fitnah, that is a very wishy washy quote to use, it has no direct link to mawlid (if the mawlid is performed without extravagance and shirk, so forth, etc..)

Also, I personally do not celebrate the prophet's birthday.

Peace

[Hashim]

wa'salaam alaaykum ya akhee,

I made the point that those deviants who celebrate the death of nabi (sallallhualaayhee'wa'salaam) are celebrating his death as he died on the same day, which was one of the greatest tragedies to hit this 'Ummaah, which you replied to denying this was a tragedy and the wisdom of Allaah. I now reply saying that yes you are right, but at the same time as the hadeeth says from the final sermon (waves of fitna will strike the ummaah following my death). The messenger who would guide the muslims, the enemies of Islaam incapable of conspiring against the belivers through Allaah ta'ala sending jibreel to warn the messenger (sallalhualaayhee'wa'salaam) such as the case of the munafiqoun, the great spreading of at tawheed etc, when he (sallalhualaayhee'wa'salaam) died this had to hit us hard. Moreover, there is no need to resort to logical rhetoric as the hadeeth clearly affirms his death will be a large blow.

[Kabeer]

wa'salaam alaaykum ya akhee,

I made the point that those deviants who celebrate the death of nabi (sallallhualaayhee'wa'salaam) are celebrating his death as he died on the same day, which was one of the greatest tragedies to hit this 'Ummaah, which you replied to denying this was a tragedy and the wisdom of Allaah. I now reply saying that yes you are right, but at the same time as the hadeeth says from the final sermon (waves of fitna will strike the ummaah following my death). The messenger who would guide the muslims, the enemies of Islaam incapable of conspiring against the belivers through Allaah ta'ala sending jibreel to warn the messenger (sallalhualaayhee'wa'salaam) such as the case of the munafiqoun, the great spreading of at tawheed etc, when he (sallalhualaayhee'wa'salaam) died this had to hit us hard. Moreover, there is no need to resort to logical rhetoric as the hadeeth clearly affirms his death will be a large blow.
Salaams Hashim,

;) it seems you have confused me with DocW.

Peace

[lumumba_s]

Inna ilayhi wa inna ilayhi raji'un. Where have we come as a community when people - scholars and laymen alike - are declared deviants because of a mere fiqh disagreement?

[Guest]

Assalaamu'alaikum

Though I am of the opinion that Mawlid is unnecessary, I could not help but smile at this:

If anything is an innovation, it is this idea that the Prophet is ordinary and any public show of affection towards him is against the very "ethos" of Islam.

Hear, hear. That's the spirit brother lumumba.

[newsX]

Simple Q,do we celebrate the prophets pbuh?
Some have said there is no evidence that the prophet,pbuh did,so we shouldnt.Then other say we do,is it called mawlid?

Shalom Bro Alan,

The mawlid is not a fundamental facet of faith, but love of the Prophet is. Your first priority therefore is to work on cultivating the love; try to understand the sometimes fanatical devotion that the Prophet's Companions had of the "Beloved of God". Compare your own feelings for the Prophet.

You'll find that the controversy surrounding issues such as this one are quite contrived.

[newsX]

Inna ilayhi wa inna ilayhi raji'un. Where have we come as a community when people - scholars and laymen alike - are declared deviants because of a mere fiqh disagreement?

Shalom,

I think Bro Hashim merely labeled those who celebrate mawlid as people who engage in bida, lack iman and faith, amongst an assortment of other things.

Thank Allah that he has not deployed the full Salafist arsenal. He's toned down quite a bit, that boy.

[DocW]

Aslaam Alaaykum,



However Kabeer you erred in one of the points raised, the death of rasool'allaah (sallallhualaayhee'wa'salaam), remember the statment from his final sermon that after my (sallalhualaayhee'wa'salaam) death waves of fitnaa will strike this Ummaah.

.

But BRO! as I understand, it was menat to be like that. Ummah had to be tested. The final Divine Guidance has been completed and Prophet pbuh has given a practical example of living it in his person. Now Ummah has to be tested. Man has to stand on cross road and choose between right and wrong or heaven or Hell. The prophet of God is pointing towards it. This is how Allah wanted it.

[ihsan]

Just some quick comments in light of this discussion:


And Muhammad is no more than a messenger; the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels! He will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful.


This is a people that have passed away; they shall have what they earned and you shall have what you earn, and you shall not be called upon to answer for what they did.

The second verses quoted is made immediately after the recounting of the death of Jacob (AS), and his reminder to his children to adhere strictly to tawheed. This verse is drawing attention to the conduct of Bani Israel and their blind adherence to their ancestors, even if these ancestors be Prophets (AS).

The above verses make it clear that the religion of Islam does not indulge in commemorating personalities for their own sake. The Old Testament does this from a purely historical point of view, and because of this exxageration, the Bani Israel lost perspective of what the priorities of their religion were. Their vision was content in looking in the past, so they lost sight of the future.


"Why should I ask the sages about my origins,
It is my ultimate destiny that I am concerned about.
Raise yourself to such heights,
that God himself asks you, what is your wish?"

The Quran says to the Prophet (S) that the stories of Messengers of old are related so that it may strengthen the heart and provide certitude, and teach people lessons in how to deal with life. It was because the Prophet and His Companions battling obstacles that Allah recounted these stories. It is living that is always given preference in our religion. The lessons that are conveyed by the past are so that men may modify their behavior, as well as provide them with intellectual, spiritual and psychological support when meeting challenges in life.

The Quran warns against exxaggeration in religion. People can commit excesses in religion and lose the very aim of what religion wants to achieve. The Companions also reported that they would not stand for the Prophet (S) when he came, because they knew he (S) did not like it.


"When love begins to sicken and decay,
It useth an enforced ceremony
There are no tricks in plain and simple faith."

Five times a day people are suppose to pray, and during the tashahud, people are asked to re-knew their covenant with the Almighty, which includes obedience and salutations to the Prophet (S). This is the epitome of respecting of the Prophet (S), for he (S) is remembered when one stands before God Almighty in adoration.